Changes for Rd 10 vs Tankthorn

[Trouto]

If I'm the coach and I'm serious about long term improvement and ensuring my players give every contest 100% effort I'm dropping Dom Sheed to the magoos this week for the below effort when I do the video review. Come back when you want to play two way football Dom instead of leaving your team mates out to dry. We don't have the players to do this? I don't care, play Trew in his spot. We want to lose anyway, if the AFL ask for a please explain show them this footage and explain the club needs to do something to improve standards.

Actively slowing then running away from a defensive effort while Kelly has to come from behind another player to pressure both.

Have a spell Dom.

View attachment 1688112

yeah thats pretty damming, was saying to Kelly who already had a guy on him 'go around your guy and get mine too'

 

[Trouto]

Your move West Coast


We’ve got Covid


View attachment 1688228

West coast players after tonight's training

 

[Flarn Rarn]

How bad can Hawthorn be that we're travelling to Tasmania with the bottom half of our list and worried about winning?

 

[Free Agent]

Damien Barratt complaining about Eagles Hawks And North being uncompetitive.

Seriously what does he expect. There always going to be a few clubs down the bottom being uncompetitive and it's going to get worse with Tasmania joining.

Sides simply can't rebuild quickly now without top end talent. With so many sides in the comp now the talent is more spread out.
It limits on how a club can rebuild.

 

[bzparkes]

How bad can Hawthorn be that we're travelling to Tasmania with the bottom half of our list and worried about winning?

Mitchell after getting 'covid' and half the Hawks team 'unavailable' for the trip to Tassie:

 

[Free Agent]

$3.85 odds on us is pretty temping.
Hawks $1.20

This game is a lot closer then that and depending on how the Hawks tank probally will move players in strange position. Bruest will probably play Full Back.

And as for us well I actually thinking we are trying but are just really crap. I haven't seen any weird position stuff going on. Our issues are we have fringe players that are no way near it. I'd go as far as saying we have amateurs level players that shouldn't even be near the WAFL.

and we have the other side of 30 year old past there primes.

then there new talent like Gibney and Hewitt who are not ready just yet to dominate.

there isn't many on our list that are in the prime years. I'd only argue Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

and Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

Jamine Jones.


Thats it. 3 players. The rest are either no good or should be tapped on the shoulder to retire. We are simply in a very early stage of a rebuild.

 

[Dylan82]

This is truly going to be a display of ineptitude for the ages.


Hawthorn doing everything they can to not win.

West Coast too injured and hapless to not lose.


What's the odds for Hawthorn getting out to a handy lead, only to implode late and give the Eagles the win by less than a goal?

Asked post-game how more than half of West Coast's inside 50 entries during the last quarter were from Hawthorn disposals, a Hawks assistant stated that "Covid can make people do some funny things" and that they are now looking forward to returning to full strength next week in South Australia against Port...​

 

[Crankyhawk]

This is truly going to be a display of ineptitude for the ages.


Hawthorn doing everythign they can to not win.

West Coast too injured and hapless to not lose.


What's the odds for Hawthorn getting out to a handy lead, only to implode late and give the Eagles the win by less than a goal?

Asked post-game how more than half of West Coast's inside 50 entries during the last quarter were from Hawthorn disposals, a Hawks assistant stated that "Covid can make people do some funny things" and that they are now looking forward to returning to full strength next week in South Australia against Port...​

Think will be you get a big lead due to hawks lack of effort before we fail to catch up on a last quarter fight back.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

What is the argument or evidence that Hawthorn are tanking? What am i missing?

They traded 3 blokes out (Gunston, Mitchell and O'Meara) all of whom are very close to if not over 30 years old, on the downhill slide and none of whom are setting the world on fire at their new clubs. And he traded two blokes in (Amon and Meek). There is no exaggerated injury list. Nobody is being rested in suspicious circumstances. Players are not being played out of position. I don't see any allegations that they are putting their best players on the bench in crucial periods during close games.

The evidence that they are tanking at this stage looks very thin to me.

That said, come Round 15 onwards i will be watching for those signs. I don't think any teams would tank for an entire season now the priority pick is gone. But i could see why from Round 15 onwards and if you are in the bottom 4 a club hierarchy might start to see more benefit in losing games than winning them.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Nobody is being rested in suspicious circumstances.

Breust and Jiath two weeks ago?

Players are not being played out of position. I don't see any allegations that they are putting their best players on the bench in crucial periods during close games.

Sending Sicily forward when they had a slim lead in the dying stages?

 

[DirtySandman]

List of No.1 draft picks to become premiership players :

Drew Banfield (1992)
Des Headland (1998)
Luke Hodge (2001)
Tom Boyd (2013)

All I am seeing, is history is on our side.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Breust and Jiath two weeks ago?



Sending Sicily forward when they had a slim lead in the dying stages?

Two players not playing in one game. Is that the extent of the evidence they are tanking? Pretty thin. Were they injured? What makes those guys not playing suspicious?

I don't think that that is anywhere near enough to justify accusing them of tanking.

Judging by the betting lines put out for the game clearly the majority of punters, i.e. people who put their money where their mouth is as opposed to weird stalkers on Bigfooty boards, don't think they are tanking. They are very heavily favoured to beat us.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Two players not playing in one game. Is that the extent of the evidence they are tanking? Pretty thin. Were they injured? What makes those guys not playing suspicious?

I don't think that that is anywhere near enough to justify accusing them of tanking.

For someone that can reach concrete unshakeable views based on a person’s body language, you’re not keen to see things that you don’t want to see.

 

[garlic munchers]

I understand the argument for going the full tank. But I think becoming a good footy team is about far more than just accumulating the best talent. There's been plenty of "awesome on paper" sides which have demonstrated this over the years.

I'd rather build a ruthless winning culture back and drop down the draft order a couple of places personally. We are so far away from that at the moment. But who's to say the first step in the right direction isn't the next game. Picking and choosing the time to have a real crack at winning is unacceptable IMO.

Problem is the current list cannot come close to being a good footy team whilst out oldies cannot regularly get on the paddock to pass down how to be a good footy team.

Only answer is accumulating a good list and as it stands, we have the most unbalanced list in the AFL.

Worst thing that could happen is get a few of our oldies back as years end and win more than 3 for the year.

 

[hfc70]

We are not tanking !

We have the Covid

 

[Goroyals22]

Two players not playing in one game. Is that the extent of the evidence they are tanking? Pretty thin. Were they injured? What makes those guys not playing suspicious?

I don't think that that is anywhere near enough to justify accusing them of tanking.

Judging by the betting lines put out for the game clearly the majority of punters, i.e. people who put their money where their mouth is as opposed to weird stalkers on Bigfooty boards, don't think they are tanking. They are very heavily favoured to beat us.

Bruest is old and needed a rest probably and Jiath apparently barely trains during the week and got to a point he needed a week off … hardly tanking….

It’s a shame SEN didn’t clip the conversation between king and Whately this morning which went through the bottom 3 teams and where each sit in terms of basically being byes for the rest of the competition … each agreed north were the worst team clearly, hawthorn have a plan and play a style that they don’t have the players as yet to maintain during a full game but stands ups for prolonged periods during a game and we are just irrelevant, ugly, and not worth watching at all due to a perfect storm of circumstances

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

For someone that can reach concrete unshakeable views based on a person’s body language, you’re not keen to see things that you don’t want to see.

Maybe it is just that your argument that two players not playing in one game, regardless of whether they are legimately injured or not, constitutes clear cut evidence of tanking is laughably poor and totally sucks. And you obviously know it is a poor argument because when i point that out rather than refute it you play the man and not the ball. What a shock.

But i do commend you for actually making an argument about something this time (as poor and weak as it was). Thats very rare to see you actually take a position on anything. You have been very brave and deserve a gold star for this first step. It is wonderful to see as opposed to your usual MO of stalking people, creating straw man arguments and then trying to look smart tearing down a point that nobody made in the first place (all whilst studiously avoiding the scary step of having an opinion yourself).

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I think what these accusations of tanking against Hawthorn on here really reveal is that we all have some FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) going on in our heads. Including me.

We all know the following things - that our list is terrible, that we need picks to rejuvenate, that the best case scenario from here for us is winning another 2 or 3 games for the year and finishing second or third last instead of last, that there is a clear stand out player in this draft that every club wants and therefore even if he doesn't want to come to us the Number 1 pick will be worth twice what the Number 2 pick will be worth if we are willing to sell it and trade down. The club with that pick might get offered three first rounders for it like North did the year that JHF was the clear Number 1.

So faced with the choice between finishing last with a pick that other clubs will hand over a King's ransom for Vrs finishing second or third last with a pick only worth half as much but with the silver lining of us not winning the spoon there is a part of all of us that knows we would be better off finishing last in that case. Because the extra value of the Number 1 pick could help a lot. And we are worried Hawthorn might take it off us.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

But i do commend you for actually making an argument about something this time (as poor and weak as it was). Thats very rare to see you actually take a position on anything.

Haven’t been following me lately, obviously.

 

[Bushhopper]

If I'm the coach and I'm serious about long term improvement and ensuring my players give every contest 100% effort I'm dropping Dom Sheed to the magoos this week for the below effort when I do the video review. Come back when you want to play two way football Dom instead of leaving your team mates out to dry. We don't have the players to do this? I don't care, play Trew in his spot. We want to lose anyway, if the AFL ask for a please explain show them this footage and explain the club needs to do something to improve standards.

Actively slowing then running away from a defensive effort while Kelly has to come from behind another player to pressure both.

Have a spell Dom.

View attachment 1688112

In Doms defense his feild kicking was absolutely amazing, as is his role.

 

[archiemoses]

I think playing Gaff as a deep forward this game makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[WCE_phil]

It doesn't look good from the vision but Sheed actually did the team thing. Kelly couldn't see Sheed and was always going to go the potential ball carrier. Sheed covered rowell so he couldn't get the cheap handball over the top and take off with it. There was less than half a second for Sheed to make a decision and Kelly had already made his. Sheed also slower and has to turn harder to make the ball carrier.

If Sheed had of gone to to the ball carrier he would never got close to impacting the contest and Kelly just wasnt going to stand Rowell. The most likely scenario is you end up with two guys busting their gut at the ball carrier and its an easy handball over the top.

Sheeds only other real option was to actually try and run deeper towards defence to cut off a mid length inside kick.

 

[Grahame]

I think playing Gaff as a deep forward this game makes a lot of sense to me.

If he’s very very very deep he should make the distance.

 

[KERRPOW]

If he’s very very very deep he should make the distance.

So deep he is playing at MRP

 

[Elhawko]

What is the argument or evidence that Hawthorn are tanking? What am i missing?

They traded 3 blokes out (Gunston, Mitchell and O'Meara) all of whom are very close to if not over 30 years old, on the downhill slide and none of whom are setting the world on fire at their new clubs. And he traded two blokes in (Amon and Meek). There is no exaggerated injury list. Nobody is being rested in suspicious circumstances. Players are not being played out of position. I don't see any allegations that they are putting their best players on the bench in crucial periods during close games.

The evidence that they are tanking at this stage looks very thin to me.

That said, come Round 15 onwards i will be watching for those signs. I don't think any teams would tank for an entire season now the priority pick is gone. But i could see why from Round 15 onwards and if you are in the bottom 4 a club hierarchy might start to see more benefit in losing games than winning them.

What is the argument or evidence that Hawthorn are tanking? What am i missing?

They traded 3 blokes out (Gunston, Mitchell and O'Meara) all of whom are very close to if not over 30 years old, on the downhill slide and none of whom are setting the world on fire at their new clubs. And he traded two blokes in (Amon and Meek). There is no exaggerated injury list. Nobody is being rested in suspicious circumstances. Players are not being played out of position. I don't see any allegations that they are putting their best players on the bench in crucial periods during close games.

The evidence that they are tanking at this stage looks very thin to me.

That said, come Round 15 onwards i will be watching for those signs. I don't think any teams would tank for an entire season now the priority pick is gone. But i could see why from Round 15 onwards and if you are in the bottom 4 a club hierarchy might start to see more benefit in losing games than winning the in

What is the argument or evidence that Hawthorn are tanking? What am i missing?

They traded 3 blokes out (Gunston, Mitchell and O'Meara) all of whom are very close to if not over 30 years old, on the downhill slide and none of whom are setting the world on fire at their new clubs. And he traded two blokes in (Amon and Meek). There is no exaggerated injury list. Nobody is being rested in suspicious circumstances. Players are not being played out of position. I don't see any allegations that they are putting their best players on the bench in crucial periods during close games.

The evidence that they are tanking at this stage looks very thin to me.

That said, come Round 15 onwards i will be watching for those signs. I don't think any teams would tank for an entire season now the priority pick is gone. But i could see why from Round 15 onwards and if you are in the bottom 4 a club hierarchy might start to see more benefit in losing games than winning them.

Hi, apologies for the intrusion but you are right, the Hawks are not tanking! We did not even trade Gunston, he left as a free agent in the hope of playing finals in his last few years, something he would not be doing with us obviously. We tried to convince him to stay. We got a notional pick back for him becaue BL wanted to protect their compensation for losing McStay, from memory. We are also the same team under the same coach that won three or four games late last season to move from second last to 14th or something, which never gets mentioned in this ridiculous debate! And as for the fact CJ and Bruest were dropped which a later poster refers to, go into our board and read the pregame threads for the last five weeks and you will see comment after comment that these two players have been lucky to be getting a game well before they were ommitted. The bigger mystery is actually how they retained their places, truth be told! All this tanking talk is just something a journo started for motives known only to him. As with all things in life, the simplest explanation is usually the right one - we are just not very good!!

Good luck in the game and while i hope we finally win again, I am sure we are all hoping that you at least get out without more injuries.