Collingwood's 2012 Draft Prospect Talk - Picks 18, 19, (updated), 20, 38

[bradrowe#32]

What time does the draft start? Can't find it anywhere.

 

[Knightmare]

Vlaustin is definitely who I am hoping for and watched Garners games again and yeah would be right in mix and would be happy with him. He has a lot of class. Watched Simpson a bit closer as well after the knocks he got on here and some of his inside work in one of those champs games was something I hadn't noticed earlier and i just thought yeah he is handy.

I tell you that Shannon Taylor is a player to. Reminds me of Walters who I rated highly in his draft year and ended up going late but has turned out well. I think he will to but lots of issues getting him out of Perth would think.

My latest nirvana would be;

# 18 - Vlaustin
# 19 - Garner
# 21 - Shaw / White
# 39 - Sumner / Towers / OBrien / Hrovat / White

Not so sure Garner will be available at our selection. Wouldn't be shocked if he went top 10 to a Richmond on draft day and tipping him to go early. Option if available though and a reasonably unique talent.

Taylor can play. Likely drops down the draft order but like his game also. Very quick and is probably a slightly less short Ugle. Late draft or if a rookie is one to look out for as a possible.

Sumner is an interesting one to bring up and does lots of things well. Very quick, can win his own ball at times, strong overhead and good finisher around goal. But doesn't seem to get enough of it. Endurance not at a high enough level and doesn't yet run to the right spots often enough. SA scouts love him but there are others I'd probably take first and I'd say the same about O'Brien, White.

Hrovat I'm a big fan of and in the 2nd round would be a great get. Such a good little player and just finds the footy. Talk that his endurance low end so I think there is a fair bit more potential for improvement than many know. Would take him ahead of the similar size but quicker Kennedy even if my view is slightly against the grain but just like the development he has shown this year more.


Herbert, M.Wood, J.Ramsay and T.Dematteis are some of the mostly lower rated players who intrigue 2nd round onward with Hrovat and Towers the two solid options I think most would be happy with.
Would be interested in your view of Ramsay if you've seen him. In the games I've seen have been impressed with his pace and ability to take on games. Uses it well and seems like a really nice fit off a back flank. High production guy who with much of the season missed has probably gone under the radar some and could be a sneaky mid draft option.

 

[Hardas]

Just for the record, I have no problem with you comparing him to me if you want...

 

[Hardas]

Just for the record, I have no problem with you comparing him to me if you want...

Oh, and I see Chris25 compares him to Luke Hodge in his mock draft [doesn't mention me, I'm afraid].

 

[Rusty Beam]

Any love for Rory Atkins at 39? Would be a great get in my opinion. Under performed in champs but is a fantastic inside ball magnet with a devloping outside game. Thoughts?

 

[Snoop Dog]

Any love for Rory Atkins at 39? Would be a great get in my opinion. Under performed in champs but is a fantastic inside ball magnet with a devloping outside game. Thoughts?

yeah i would have a lot of love for him at 39 and wouldn't be upset at 21 either. Got some things to work with but lots of really good attributes.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Not so sure Garner will be available at our selection. Wouldn't be shocked if he went top 10 to a Richmond on draft day and tipping him to go early. Option if available though and a reasonably unique talent.

Taylor can play. Likely drops down the draft order but like his game also. Very quick and is probably a slightly less short Ugle. Late draft or if a rookie is one to look out for as a possible.

Sumner is an interesting one to bring up and does lots of things well. Very quick, can win his own ball at times, strong overhead and good finisher around goal. But doesn't seem to get enough of it. Endurance not at a high enough level and doesn't yet run to the right spots often enough. SA scouts love him but there are others I'd probably take first and I'd say the same about O'Brien, White.

Hrovat I'm a big fan of and in the 2nd round would be a great get. Such a good little player and just finds the footy. Talk that his endurance low end so I think there is a fair bit more potential for improvement than many know. Would take him ahead of the similar size but quicker Kennedy even if my view is slightly against the grain but just like the development he has shown this year more.


Herbert, M.Wood, J.Ramsay and T.Dematteis are some of the mostly lower rated players who intrigue 2nd round onward with Hrovat and Towers the two solid options I think most would be happy with.
Would be interested in your view of Ramsay if you've seen him. In the games I've seen have been impressed with his pace and ability to take on games. Uses it well and seems like a really nice fit off a back flank. High production guy who with much of the season missed has probably gone under the radar some and could be a sneaky mid draft option.

I am still out on where Garner goes bc of those shoulders. I think clubs with one selection in Rd 1 will be a bit more careful given the shallowness of this draft ( I reckon there are now at least 4 clubs out by pick 40 which is unheralded).

Yes i have seen a bit of Ramsay over last 2 years. On the positive side he is a good reader of the play and he is a very good user of it as well. I think he will be more suited to a wing / HB type role. I just don't see a standout factor with him though and he strikes me as one who could go from 40 to Rookie. Here is the question I reckon with him.....do you back in a Luke Rounds or do you delist him for a Ramsay?

Out of those last 4 you mentioned i like Herbert. Also be keen on Spencer White at some stage. Just seen a lot more vision of him and he has unbridled talent that boy. I am thinking you bet on him at 21 possibly......I wouldn't be upset if they did that.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Yeah, I agree Snoop. It is very hard to teach good decision making and just makes the right decisions effortlessly. After the champs put in some really dominating performances including a 50 disposal game from memory. Has to work on defensive pressure and endurance, but should he come on, he could offer an option on the half forward line before moving into the midfield rotations.

Bio from afl website:

'Rory Atkins is a medium forward/midfielder with very good agility and composure with the ball. Makes good decisions with his disposal either by hand or on his preferred left foot. Plays as a hit-up half-forward who is a good overhead mark as well as being clean at ground level. Played two games for Vic Metro and averaged more than 20 disposals a game at TAC Cup level. AIS-AFL Academy graduate.'

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I am still out on where Garner goes bc of those shoulders. I think clubs with one selection in Rd 1 will be a bit more careful given the shallowness of this draft ( I reckon there are now at least 4 clubs out by pick 40 which is unheralded).

It could have as much to do with the shallowness of the draught as FA. Most likely be a more common
occurrence I think as teams at the top look to top up through FA & only taking 2 or 3 picks in the draft.

Like we did so brilliantly.

 

[Knightmare]

I am still out on where Garner goes bc of those shoulders. I think clubs with one selection in Rd 1 will be a bit more careful given the shallowness of this draft ( I reckon there are now at least 4 clubs out by pick 40 which is unheralded).

Yes i have seen a bit of Ramsay over last 2 years. On the positive side he is a good reader of the play and he is a very good user of it as well. I think he will be more suited to a wing / HB type role. I just don't see a standout factor with him though and he strikes me as one who could go from 40 to Rookie. Here is the question I reckon with him.....do you back in a Luke Rounds or do you delist him for a Ramsay?

Out of those last 4 you mentioned i like Herbert. Also be keen on Spencer White at some stage. Just seen a lot more vision of him and he has unbridled talent that boy. I am thinking you bet on him at 21 possibly......I wouldn't be upset if they did that.

Yeah it will be interesting with Garner. Certainly not as clear as with some of the other prospects where he lands having missed that portion of the season.

With Ramsey I've found it to be more than anything the pace that has impressed.

Rounds for me has really lacked consistency, plays a very good game here and there but just doesn't back it up from week to week. Ramsey I've found more consistent and on a back flank more productive and possibly more sound with ball in hand. But I see what you are getting at and without a doubt you need to look at whether a player of this type is ahead of other existing players.

I'm probably not as optimistic with White. I certainly see him getting drafted and he had an impressive year but I'm not sure I have him ahead of say Jackson Paine. But like with Ramsey v Rounds this is the type of thing you need to look at whether he is ahead of our existing players. If it turns out that we see his game as being ahead of what we already have then certainly he must be looked at.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Best draft from my perspective would be something like vlastuin, garlet, shaw, Atkins/hrovat

One, two, or all, of the above could easily be substituted for a few others who will probably there or thereabouts: white/colquhoun/towers/Simpson.

Then there is also the hope that clubs go needs basis rather than best available or get a bit frightened by injury clouds thereby creating a few unpredicted sliders. i.e, stringer, menzel

 

[HFF]

Taylor Garner is certainly a player who should be on our radar.

 

[TradeDraft]

Heard we are keen on Dean Towers

 

[sloth6]

Heard we are keen on Dean Towers

Source?

 

[Bay Pie]

Heard we are keen on Dean Towers

I've read, don't be surprised if we take a 21/22 year old. How old is Towers and any ideas where he might fit in these early day draft orders?

 

[blaze036]

I've read, don't be surprised if we take a 21/22 year old. How old is Towers and any ideas where he might fit in these early day draft orders?

aged 22 and i would put him around 30-45 in the draft, i don't think clubs who aren't in finals contention would take him whilst there are still quality kids up for grabs. Love him at 39 but i have a feeling he'll go at 33-35 to essendon, brisbane or richmond who are all trying to push into finals contention next year. All 3 could use him in the midfield as well.

He is a very similar player to Clint young so perhaps with picking up young he'll fall down our list considerably. Being a mature age could help him get picked up by us though, as he will have an immediate impact.

 

[HFF]

Not a fan of Towers.

His "vertical leap record" IMO has him overrated.

Questionable pace (looks really slow) and his kicking and his technique is very ordinary. Saw him really struggle to cover the distance with a 40m set shot. Lacks depth. He is nothing like Clinton Young who has genuine line breaking ability and super penetration in his kicking.

 

[blaze036]

Not a fan of Towers.

His "vertical leap record" IMO has him overrated.

Questionable pace (looks really slow) and his kicking and his technique is very ordinary. Saw him really struggle to cover the distance with a 40m set shot. Lacks depth. He is nothing like Clinton Young who has genuine line breaking ability and super penetration in his kicking.

Think your being pretty harsh on him, maybe you saw him play a bad game. To me he is currently a slightly worse clinton young with a better vertical leap, under AFL coaches he will have a career, wont ever be a superstar but more a good 22 contributor.

 

[HFF]

Think your being pretty harsh on him, maybe you saw him play a bad game. To me he is currently a slightly worse clinton young with a better vertical leap, under AFL coaches he will have a career, wont ever be a superstar but more a good 22 contributor.

I'd prefer taking a kid with the opportunity to perhaps become a superstar player.

From what I've seen of Towers, he is very ordinary.

Maybe good enough to get on an AFL list but IMO would be taking up precious list space on ours.

I'd pass on him, we do not need.

 

[JOELY]

Not a fan of Towers.

His "vertical leap record" IMO has him overrated.

Questionable pace (looks really slow) and his kicking and his technique is very ordinary. Saw him really struggle to cover the distance with a 40m set shot. Lacks depth. He is nothing like Clinton Young who has genuine line breaking ability and super penetration in his kicking.

That's a shame about his kicking. I've heard him compared to Isaac Smith, whose kicking is also pretty average. Have to take you up on the pace thing though. He tested equal 5th in the 20 metre sprint, and 3rd in the repeat sprints at the draft combine. Seems like his pace is one of his main attributes, but perhaps doesn't really use it in actual games enough.

 

[blaze036]

I'd prefer taking a kid with the opportunity to perhaps become a superstar player.

From what I've seen of Towers, he is very ordinary.

Maybe good enough to get on an AFL list but IMO would be taking up precious list space on ours.

I'd pass on him, we do not need.

I think towers is a low risk medium reward type draft pick, who will have an immediate impact.

Depends whether Hine would prefer that or a high risk high reward type player with pick 39 (assuming towers is still there).

IMO if towers is still there we take him at 39, and use 18 19 21 on teenagers with very high ceilings. Not every player can turn into a superstar, you also need the role players and i think towers is a safe bet in regards to getting a good role player than every side needs.

Plus you can sign him for 2-3 years and during his football prime he will be on close to minimum wage whilst performing far above that of a normal player 2 years into his footy life.

 

[HFF]

That's a shame about his kicking. I've heard him compared to Isaac Smith, whose kicking is also pretty average. Have to take you up on the pace thing though. He tested equal 5th in the 20 metre sprint, and 3rd in the repeat sprints at the draft combine. Seem like his pace is one of his main attributes, but perhaps doesn't really use it in actual games enough.

From what I've seen of him, he does not play "quick" at all so those results are very surprising.

Overall as a package, I am not convinced nor a fan.

I think towers is a low risk medium reward type draft pick, who will have an immediate impact.

Depends whether Hine would prefer that or a high risk high reward type player with pick 39 (assuming towers is still there).

IMO if towers is still there we take him at 39, and use 18 19 21 on teenagers with very high ceilings. Not every player can turn into a superstar, you also need the role players and i think towers is a safe bet in regards to getting a good role player than every side needs.

Plus you can sign him for 2-3 years and during his football prime he will be on close to minimum wage whilst performing far above that of a normal player 2 years into his footy life.

With our trio of picks I would certainly prefer Hine and Rendell to target teenagers who can potentially become A-graders. Doesn't always turn out like that but with Towers I don't think he will ever be one.

I'm just not a fan of his work unfortunately.

 

[blaze036]

From what I've seen of him, he does not play "quick" at all so those results are very surprising.

Overall as a package, I am not convinced nor a fan.


With our trio of picks I would certainly prefer Hine and Rendell to target teenagers who can potentially become A-graders. Doesn't always turn out like that but with Towers I don't think he will ever be one.

I'm just not a fan of his work unfortunately.

understandable, however if you look at in the past 10 years how many kids have made it as AFL players from picks 35-45 they are few and far between, taking towers at 39 taking that into consideration could be a good pick up.

 

[Scodog10]

From what I've seen of him, he does not play "quick" at all so those results are very surprising.

Overall as a package, I am not convinced nor a fan.


With our trio of picks I would certainly prefer Hine and Rendell to target teenagers who can potentially become A-graders. Doesn't always turn out like that but with Towers I don't think he will ever be one.

I'm just not a fan of his work unfortunately.

You don't need to worry about him going between 18-21 it's just not Hine's style. He's drafted just one player over the age of 19 in his time with the club (Perham in 2010). He won't buck that trend so spectacularly when we have a cluster of decent selections for the first time since 05!

 

[Snoop Dog]

Yeah it will be interesting with Garner. Certainly not as clear as with some of the other prospects where he lands having missed that portion of the season.

With Ramsey I've found it to be more than anything the pace that has impressed.

Rounds for me has really lacked consistency, plays a very good game here and there but just doesn't back it up from week to week. Ramsey I've found more consistent and on a back flank more productive and possibly more sound with ball in hand. But I see what you are getting at and without a doubt you need to look at whether a player of this type is ahead of other existing players.

I'm probably not as optimistic with White. I certainly see him getting drafted and he had an impressive year but I'm not sure I have him ahead of say Jackson Paine. But like with Ramsey v Rounds this is the type of thing you need to look at whether he is ahead of our existing players. If it turns out that we see his game as being ahead of what we already have then certainly he must be looked at.

White is hard. I like him actually but he needs a lot of work. Has the tools to be a big x factor type player so be interesting to see who hits him and when. I think he could go anywhere from 20 and with a few clubs out by 40 I wouldn't mind betting he is dealt in there.