List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• AFL retirements and delistings
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

• Jai Culley, Alex Witherden
  23

  Alex Witherden

  Age

  26

  Ht

  188cm

  Wt

  85kg

  Pos.

  Def

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  20.7

  5star

  K

  15.2

  5star

  HB

  5.5

  4star

  M

  6.2

  5star

  T

  1.8

  4star

  MG

  386.5

  5star

  D

  13.0

  3star

  K

  10.0

  4star

  HB

  3.0

  2star

  M

  7.0

  5star

  T

  0.0

  1star

  MG

  201.0

  3star

  D

  24.0

  5star

  K

  15.4

  5star

  HB

  8.6

  5star

  M

  5.8

  5star

  T

  2.2

  4star

  MG

  380.2

  5star

  and Coby Burgiel delisted
  • Burgiel to be considered as a train on player

• Tom Barrass traded to Hawthorn
  • In: F1, F2, F3 (HAW)
  • Out: Barrass, F4

• Liam Baker and Matt Owies join West Coast in Pick 3 trade
  • In: Baker, Owies, 12, 73
  • Out: 3, 63, 68

• Jack Darling traded to North Melbourne for Pick 67

• Jack Graham joins West Coast as UFA

• Jake Waterman re-signs with West Coast until at least 2029

• Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones
  31

  Jamaine Jones

  Age

  26

  Ht

  180cm

  Wt

  80kg

  Pos.

  D/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  9.0

  2star

  K

  4.8

  2star

  HB

  4.2

  3star

  M

  2.1

  2star

  T

  3.8

  5star

  MG

  159.6

  3star

  D

  10.5

  3star

  K

  6.5

  3star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  2.5

  3star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  MG

  196.5

  3star

  D

  9.0

  3star

  K

  4.2

  2star

  HB

  4.8

  4star

  M

  2.4

  3star

  T

  4.2

  5star

  MG

  166.0

  3star

  and Jordyn Baker delisted

• Archer Reid (2027), Loch Rawlinson (2025), and Coen Livingstone (2025) sign extensions

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

The culture to which I refer being interstate kids unabashedly expressing a disinclination to play for a WA club.

I think we usually back ourselves, but I've defo noticed Vic Metro kids more and more saying they don't want to travel. And we also see most kids just want to play for Collingwood and Geelong. But we also get WA players saying mid career, "I'm homesick, I want to go home". The sooner we give players no choice in who the play for, and allow clubs to trade without players' permission, the better. You play for who your told, and if you don't like it, go plays in the VFL or WAFL or whatever.

These soft kids who think they can just decide who they play for, and in which city they play, is crazy. No other elite sport is doing this.

 

[Mattman93]

I think we usually back ourselves, but I've defo noticed Vic Metro kids more and more saying they don't want to travel. And we also see most kids just want to play for Collingwood and Geelong. But we also get WA players saying mid career, "I'm homesick, I want to go home". The sooner we give players no choice in who the play for, and allow clubs to trade without players' permission, the better. You play for who your told, and if you don't like it, go plays in the VFL or WAFL or whatever.

These soft kids who think they can just decide who they play for, and in which city they play, is crazy. No other elite sport is doing this.

Right. Hence I said 'Either we don't value the high end of the draft enough, and so are unduly swung by those considerations, or the culture is getting so bad that we're constantly going to be selecting from a very limited pool. In either case, some drastic change of approach is needed."

Disbelieve Phil if you choose; but taking him at face value, the rationale in essence was: the top 5 on our board would be off the table because of flight risk concerns. In the next bracket is a small group of targets, one of which we expect to be available at 12. If that's true, it seems as though we're unduly sensitive to interstate worries, given how much value we ought to be placing on selecting a player of that top 3 calibre. Of if for whatever reason what he's saying isn't true, we don't value it enough and don't even have an excuse.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

No that would be Duanne Massey with input from Victorian scouts.

Bugger so I can’t shit stir how awesome Matt Clarke is………………oh well it won’t take me long I’ll find something else.

 

[Balls In]

From those rankings it seems like FOS was our guy and we got wind of him potentially not being there at our pick so traded it away.

Anything down to Draper I can’t see us being keen on. Doesn’t excuse the piss poor Baker trade but you can see why we split. Would’ve been nice to get 8ish and 12 though (and not blow it on Baker). Draper/Smillie and TT/Lindsay is perfect.

No we traded pick #3 because someone promised Baker we'd take him. As unbelievable as that is.

 

[Obeanie1]

With Twomey releasing his latest rankings today, this is how I'm seeing the draft landscape at this stage (excluding NGAs and F/S)

Tier 1: Lalor, FOS
Tier 2: Smith, Draper, Langford, Reid
Tier 3: Smillie, Tauru, Armstrong
Tier 4: Travaglia, Allan
Tier 5: Hotton, Lindsay, Berry, Trainor
Tier 6: Whitlock x 2, Shanahan, Hynes, Dattoli

Pick #12 is certainly an intriguing position to be in.

Tier 1 has no chance of sliding. Tiers 2 and 3 have a tiny possibility, but it's not even worth considering unless new information comes in, and we presumably wouldn't be interested in Armstrong anyway (although you never know with us).

Tier 4 is realistically our best-case scenario. Travaglia is adored on our board, and for good reason, but we'll be lucky if he makes it through to #12. Ironically, the local boy Allan is widely disliked at this selection, but I disagree with that sentiment. He looked bloody awesome playing in the biggest games of the year for Peel and his ceiling is very high. The likes of Harley, Hewett, Ginbey and Allan will be terrifying to come up against before long. I would be stoked with Bo, and that's not because he's a West Australian. Funnily enough, I think this is actually making him a more polarising figure here as so many of our supporters are sick of us constantly, lazily being linked to local prospects alone, but let's not lose sight of his potential both long-term, and straight out of the blocks.

In my opinion, our worst-case scenario is if both tier 4 options have been snapped up along with the aforementioned nine prospects, leaving us to choose from tiers 5 or 6. Hotton is rumoured to be a mummy's boy, and Trainor has concussion concerns, although you wouldn't rule either out for us based on talent and positional needs.

If we are steering clear of them, then it comes down to Lindsay, Berry, and likely Hynes as a slight reach, although he has the potential to more than live up to a higher selection. I'm crossing my fingers that Travaglia or Allan slide, but if we end up with Lindsay, Berry or Hynes then I'll be happy enough - they all look like great prospects. Nevertheless, I can't help but feel disappointed missing out on someone like Draper if we wind up with one of them, whereas Travaglia or Allan softens the blow a little, but that's just my opinion. I know Lindsay has a lot of fans and ESPN's phantom released today had the Saints going early on him but I'm just not excited by what I've seen from him... Would prefer Berry except for the fact that he isn't as much of a need which only brings me back to hoping that Travaglia or Allan make it through to us!

It's going to be an interesting month.

Nice summary with the tiers.

It shows why Id be keen trading dor oe ofn pick 9, 10 or 11.

You likey get one of TT or Allan, Id take TT.

10. Travagalia and 12. Lindsay,

 

[PremiershipNo4]

Taj Hotton is one smooth moving player from the highlights I’ve seen, makes difficult things look easy.

 

[Keys]

Nice summary with the tiers.

It shows why Id be keen trading dor oe ofn pick 9, 10 or 11.

You likey get one of TT or Allan, Id take TT.

10. Travagalia and 12. Lindsay,

Trading for 9,10,11 likely costs our F1 as a minimum. We might need to add some steak knives

I’d rather be patient because that F1 will give us a chance at someone like Rodriguez or Swadling or it becomes a central piece of a trade for Warner

We made a blue trading pick 3, let’s not exacerbate it by getting less than full value for our F1 pick

 

[eaglevision]

Trading for 9,10,11 likely costs our F1 as a minimum. We might need to add some steak knives

I’d rather be patient because that F1 will give us a chance at someone like Rodriguez or Swadling or it becomes a central piece of a trade for Warner

We made a blue trading pick 3, let’s not exacerbate it by getting less than full value for our F1 pick

Spot on. I’d be happy adding Hawthorn’s F2 to 12 if it meant we could get 10 off Richmond and take Travaglia in a similar deal to the one Port offered us to take Sinn ahead of Essendon. That’s about the only trade I’d do if we’re looking to push into that range.

 

[InsideBull]

Funnily enough, I think this is actually making him a more polarising figure here as so many of our supporters are sick of us constantly, lazily being linked to local prospects alone, but let's not lose sight of his potential both long-term, and straight out of the blocks.

I tend to agree with this view. I don't believe our WA picks have shown to be blinkered and disappointing (on the whole compared to other states)

2017 always reminds me of this. Going into that draft this board seemed to be worried that we would overfocus WA boys and go with Allen, TK & Ryan. How good would have that been?

Even 2022 I still feel was the right choice. If we remember that we never had a pick in front of North to poach Sheezel, there isn't a clear better choice than Ginbey and Hewitt, before or after the split

The club gets criticised more for missing WA talent than anything else

 

[Mattman93]

The likes of Harley, Hewett, Ginbey and Allan will be terrifying to come up against before long. I would be stoked with Bo, and that's not because he's a West Australian. Funnily enough, I think this is actually making him a more polarising figure here as so many of our supporters are sick of us constantly, lazily being linked to local prospects alone, but let's not lose sight of his potential both long-term, and straight out of the blocks.

We don't know if Hewett can even get on the park, let alone play consistent midfield minutes, and Ginbey doesn't look like a midfielder.

The reasonable opposition to selecting Allan is that it would be another speculative call on a versatile and athletic type who doesn't find the ball or demonstrate being an especially natural midfielder. We can't afford to just keep stockpiling low production, average disposal, utility types.

As an aside, one thing I've been wondering -- is it on balance a good thing when a prospect like him plays majority WAFL seniors all year? Arguably it just serves to leave more uncertainties. I'd be much more comfortable with Allan if he'd played Colts but had much higher production.

 

[Bender_]

All this talk of mummy's boys and we're keen on a player called Swaddling?!

 

[Dark Sharks]

We should be moving the inevitable forward and paying out Jamieson now and delisting.

No point going through the motions for another 12 months.

Because the bloke has never been more valuable to us as KPD depth than he is right now?

Barrass is gone, Edwards signed on again out of potential rather than what he's actually produced. Then there's Bazzo, who there's still big question marks over.

One injury to McGovern, which is well and truly possible, and suddenly we're relying on these two to lead our defense? ^

Not that Jamieson is any better, you understand, but at least he was solid without being spectacular when played in that role. Been around a while now.

I'd like the bloke gone asap as well, he's a list clogger for mine, but no point cutting off your nose in spite of your face. It'd be prudent to keep him on the list for another year. From both a salary and list management standpoint.

 

[Deepthroat]

Because the bloke has never been more valuable to us as KPD depth than he is right now?

Barrass is gone, Edwards signed on again out of potential rather than what he's actually produced. Then there's Bazzo, who there's still big question marks over.

One injury to McGovern, which is well and truly possible, and suddenly we're relying on these two to lead our defense? ^

Not that Jamieson is any better, you understand, but at least he was solid without being spectacular when played in that role. Been around a while now.

I'd like the bloke gone asap as well, he's a list clogger for mine, but no point cutting off your nose in spite of your face. It'd be prudent to keep him on the list for another year. From both a salary and list management standpoint.

If Clurey is already on some sort of promise, then Jamieson is just biding time.

 

[Mop]

No that would be Duanne Massey with input from Victorian scouts.

What's your take on Duanne Massey? Rate him? I do find it interesting we're a WA club with a SA based recruitment manager, not here or East Coast like ROB was.

 

[Mop]

Trading for 9,10,11 likely costs our F1 as a minimum. We might need to add some steak knives

I’d rather be patient because that F1 will give us a chance at someone like Rodriguez or Swadling or it becomes a central piece of a trade for Warner

We made a blue trading pick 3, let’s not exacerbate it by getting less than full value for our F1 pick

I'm not convinced we made a blue trading pick 3. I'm content enough with that call, it's giving up half of it for old mate Baker that hurts.

 

[BartBart]

We screwed our 2024 draft hand but our 2025 picks are now really strong. Lets stop with these silly pick-swap suggestions that will ruin our 2025 hand.

If we finish bottom 4 next year and Hawks drop off a little bit and miss the top 8, we could enter the 2025 draft with a top 5 pick, a 2nd top 10 pick and two more picks in the 20s.

We have plenty of youth we need to get games into as is, Harley, JWilliams, Maric, Hutchinson, Johnston, Hall, Hewett, Dewar, Long, AReid, Bazzo, Chesser, pick 12 & pick 26. Pushing back the bigger intake of draftees by 12 months isn't the worst thing we could be doing.

The problem is everyone knows our strong 2025 hand will be likely ruined as we allow ourselves to get pillaged (eg Warner) because what do at trade time is overpay (to keep relationships good and we are poor at dealing)

Sydney will see 3 first rounders & 3 second rounders (2025 & 2026) and be laughing at the thought of how many they'll get.

 

[Goroyals22]

Because the bloke has never been more valuable to us as KPD depth than he is right now?

Barrass is gone, Edwards signed on again out of potential rather than what he's actually produced. Then there's Bazzo, who there's still big question marks over.

One injury to McGovern, which is well and truly possible, and suddenly we're relying on these two to lead our defense? ^

Not that Jamieson is any better, you understand, but at least he was solid without being spectacular when played in that role. Been around a while now.

I'd like the bloke gone asap as well, he's a list clogger for mine, but no point cutting off your nose in spite of your face. It'd be prudent to keep him on the list for another year. From both a salary and list management standpoint.

The likelihood is Callum would be injured as it seems he is a permanent member of the injury report


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[mattyc75]

N
Mraz I was most excited about coming into the year, started really well. Then I thought his game vs Coburg underwhelmed me. O'F in the same game had a great game. Both then got injured.

Barrat has been the slow burn through the year but has had really solid development as the year has gone on.
Tough choice, but form probably means Barrat is the leading candidate.

So are those 3 worth taking in the second round as opposed to taking Dennis much later?

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stallon]

It's an anomally though. Geelong had a system with senior guys like Selwood and Danger. It's not like they were bottom 4, playing like a busted ass, and brought in a heap of B graders. Daicos and Fly sparked Collingwood. That stuff is rare.

We're always going to be able to attract expat free agents. Warner is OOC and a good chance to come. Next year is slightly early, but okay. And apart from Warner, we won't have to and shouldn't give up top picks.

Is it an anomaly though? or is it just an efficient way to build a list without needing to go to the top of the draft?

 

[mattyc75]

If Clurey is already on some sort of promise, then Jamieson is just biding time.

Apparently we don't have cap space to pay sheed out so we also don't have the space to pay Jamieson out

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[eaglevision]

So are those 3 worth taking in the second round as opposed to taking Dennis much later?

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Very confident Dennis won’t get past the 50s. Can’t see him getting to us unless we live trade.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Re Hotton; if he is considered a flight risk he would be one of the worst ones to consider. First year in a new state and not playing. Sitting round doing rehab and feeling sorry for himself? Mmmm?

 

[WCE_phil]

WCE_phil how does the role of list manager v head recruiter work on draft night with trades and who should be drafted?

The draft board is put together and an overall rankings as well as later draft pick plans for types of players are put together. The whole recruiting team has input and the list manager has no say.

I'll purely be there to look at things from a data analysis perspective in regards to live trades and the cost of potential buy in if a player that is highly rated by the club slides or if the club is in a position whereby they are happy with any of 3-4 players at a pick they have and another team wants to climb.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Re Hotton; if he is considered a flight risk he would be one of the worst ones to consider. First year in a new state and not playing. Sitting round doing rehab and feeling sorry for himself? Mmmm?

Alternatively, the gratitude one would feel towards a dedicated medical staff and supportive playing group, encouraging a kid to want to commit and pay them back long term.

We really need to start flipping these homesick narratives.

 

[Jukes]

Hotton has that Daicos/Sheezel body shape and style of play. Not sure how his skill level compares to them though. If he can accumulate like they do then he would be perfect for us.