Dismantling of Cat empire

[Ant85]

While the anti-Collingwood trolls are busy pointing out how unscrupulous our tactics are vis-a-vis other clubs, I'm surprised to see so few threads on perhaps the biggest story going around in AFL:

- The dismantling of the mighty Cat empire.

GC took Ablett, no surprise.

Collingwood humiliated Geelong in the Preliminary Final, ok.

Essendon poaching Geelong's coaching staff, with suspicion that the Bombers were talking to Thompson during the season.

Thompson then, according to Caro anyway, apparently luring Brendan McCartney to Essendon even though he has a 3-year deal.

It's an interesting piece from Caro, and just shows how ruthless it can be.

This is the nature of the business, it's not unique to any club.

Essendon is trying to poach Geelong's staff, Carlton trying to poach Collingwood's staff, Collingwood got Luke Ball for nothing, Richmond will get Bachar Houli for nothing, this is the AFL today.

None of it may seem "moral", but it's everyone out for themselves.

 

[Lach72]

Bloke signs a contract, club enforces contract...simple.

Unless he never had a contract???

 

[DonDraper]

Hello, Hello

 

[Skids]

I wonder how much of the Caro argument is true? I'd hope Bomber Thompson doesn't go to Essendon and develops property or whatever. I hope Caro gets egg on her face, and is sued by someone she claims lied. Sadly, it's probably that she's on the money, Bomber will return to Essendon and we'll have a liar as coach (correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hird lie about his intentions when Knights was still coach?), liar as senior assistant coach (he'll have lied to Geelong if he comes to Essendon) and another assistant who's broken a contract to go to the bombers. I don't know why that bothers me. I guess it's a business, and the business is winning, but I find the whole Knights getting an extra 2 years when there was no reason, Knights getting knifed by Essendon heavies, Hird bullshitting about not agreeing to coach, Knights getting sacked, Hird inducing people to break contracts (McCartney, Corcoran?) and be on his team, those induced bullshitting as well as breaking contracts, a bit shiteful. To put it midly.

That's assuming that Hird did lie and Bomber comes to Essendon, like McCartney has done.

Something's fishy in all this.....

 

[mcgarnacle]

hello, hello

hola!

 

[mcgarnacle]

I wonder how much of the Caro argument is true? I'd hope Bomber Thompson doesn't go to Essendon and develops property or whatever. I hope Caro gets egg on her face, and is sued by someone she claims lied. Sadly, it's probably that she's on the money, Bomber will return to Essendon and we'll have a liar as coach (correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hird lie about his intentions when Knights was still coach?), liar as senior assistant coach (he'll have lied to Geelong if he comes to Essendon) and another assistant who's broken a contract to go to the bombers. I don't know why that bothers me. I guess it's a business, and the business is winning, but I find the whole Knights getting an extra 2 years when there was no reason, Knights getting knifed by Essendon heavies, Hird bullshitting about not agreeing to coach, Knights getting sacked, Hird inducing people to break contracts (McCartney, Corcoran?) and be on his team, those induced bullshitting as well as breaking contracts, a bit shiteful. To put it midly.

That's assuming that Hird did lie and Bomber comes to Essendon, like McCartney has done.

Something's fishy in all this.....

i thought same when i was reading the article.

it's really making ESS look extremely unethical in a public domain. the thing is, such behaviour goes on in corporate enterprise everyday..............the players are just not asked about their intentions by the media everyday as has been the case with Hird and Thompson.

 

[morgoth]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

Lol, Geelong are proof that AFL is a brutal business and you have to make the most of your time in the sun cos it does not take long for the fall to come.

 

[The Donners]

Who cares?

 

[morgoth]

I wonder how much of the Caro argument is true? I'd hope Bomber Thompson doesn't go to Essendon and develops property or whatever. I hope Caro gets egg on her face, and is sued by someone she claims lied. Sadly, it's probably that she's on the money, Bomber will return to Essendon and we'll have a liar as coach (correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hird lie about his intentions when Knights was still coach?), liar as senior assistant coach (he'll have lied to Geelong if he comes to Essendon) and another assistant who's broken a contract to go to the bombers. I don't know why that bothers me. I guess it's a business, and the business is winning, but I find the whole Knights getting an extra 2 years when there was no reason, Knights getting knifed by Essendon heavies, Hird bullshitting about not agreeing to coach, Knights getting sacked, Hird inducing people to break contracts (McCartney, Corcoran?) and be on his team, those induced bullshitting as well as breaking contracts, a bit shiteful. To put it midly.

That's assuming that Hird did lie and Bomber comes to Essendon, like McCartney has done.

Something's fishy in all this.....

If you win a flag I can assure you you will not give a stuff re the above.

AFL is designed for clubs to rise and fall. It's why I am enjoying the Pies right now cos after this comes the fall. All you can do is try and lessen the blows when they come and in Geelong's case the pcisk for Ablett will enable them to rebuild a lot quicker.

Flag sides normally hang on to everyone, rather than trading out some with high currency to ensuer the next generation of stars.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

Lol, Geelong are proof that AFL is a brutal business and you have to make the most of your time in the sun cos it does not take long for the fall to come.

Funny that because of your coaching setup, Malthouse actually pulled his thumb out of his arse and did something after all these years.

We'll wait and see what happens next year, but losing a prelim isn't the end of the world. The Pies were brained mercilessly in the 2009 PF against the Cats, and look what happened the next year.

 

[Beth]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

Lol, Geelong are proof that AFL is a brutal business and you have to make the most of your time in the sun cos it does not take long for the fall to come.

Actually Karma doesn't revisit you til the next life. Yours is the bogan definition of karma. True though footy is a business and its a rise and fall situation created by the AFL. Im just wrapt to have had the rise! Next year everyone has written us off and we have nothing to lose. Beware the wounded cats, we might not win but we are going to make life tough for more than few teams. Should be fun!

 

[MarkT2]

Geelong have a battle ahead to remain premiership contenders but they have the basic list to do it for a few years to come yet. They have not been dismantled at this point. Where they end up depends on the real quality of their management.

Essendon on the other hand have been dismantled, torn limb from limb and have become followers. They were leaders in many regards for a long time but they are now reactive and impotent. Not quite in the Carlton league yet but heading there rapidly.

Essendon have played a big card with Hird. It could well be the right one but that would also require quality of management not exhibited by the incumbents to date.

At least they aren't Carlton thought! I am sure when they resot to tanking for picks they will make more of it.

 

[geelong_boy]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

I think you're being a bit harsh on Costa. His comments were made at a private function at which there was a member of the media present. They then made their way into the papers. So he didn't like the succession plan. Big deal.

 

[thecotch]

So whats the point?

 

[Walesy]

Meh, when Geelong get themselves a new coach, there's a good chance he's going to want to clean house and bring in his own people.

If that's the case, Geelong just saved themselves from paying him out for 3 years.

 

[OB1]

While the anti-Collingwood trolls are busy pointing out how unscrupulous our tactics are vis-a-vis other clubs, I'm surprised to see so few threads on perhaps the biggest story going around in AFL:

- The dismantling of the mighty Cat empire.

GC took Ablett, no surprise.

Collingwood humiliated Geelong in the Preliminary Final, ok.

Essendon poaching Geelong's coaching staff, with suspicion that the Bombers were talking to Thompson during the season.

Thompson then, according to Caro anyway, apparently luring Brendan McCartney to Essendon even though he has a 3-year deal.

It's an interesting piece from Caro, and just shows how ruthless it can be.

This is the nature of the business, it's not unique to any club.

Essendon is trying to poach Geelong's staff, Carlton trying to poach Collingwood's staff, Collingwood got Luke Ball for nothing, Richmond will get Bachar Houli for nothing, this is the AFL today.

None of it may seem "moral", but it's everyone out for themselves.

The sooner people realise that the better. Its the AFL's job to control the rules not the clubs.

For mine Collingwood & Ball perverted the draft by having Ball refuse to entertain any other clubs offers. Effectively it was draft tampering but its the AFL's job to do something so I don't blame Collingwood taking advantage. Ultimately it helped them win a flag & for all the BF whining about "tainted flags" the records stand.

Its a similar story with Judd & his Visy deal. We all know its against the spirit of the salary cap but its not Carlton's fault the AFL are weak. Every club shoudl now get on board & pay their players with outside deals (as most already are.

When it comes to coaches there is no rules. Assistants leave all the time & get shown the door at the 1st opportunity. When Essendon were a successful side our assistants were targets so now we are at the bottom naturally we will target the guys who have been part of recent premierships. Football club staff are no different to any employee who can come & go as they please. Essednon wanted to retain Richardson but he left for Carlton - thats business. I don't know the particulars of each persons contracts but obviously there were out clauses built in so guys like Thompson & McCartney were still able to pursue other opportunities that suited them. In Bomber's case it was pretty obvious that he never wanted to be a long term senior coach & nothing seems to have changed there. All he's done is brought that forward 1 year. If he does take up an assistants role next year or in the future then he shoudl be free to do whatever he wants.

From Essendon's point of view we want to get the best panel of coaches we possibly can. If that means weakening other sides in the process then thats a bonus. Other clubs welfare is no more our concern than what they have for the future of Essendon. This is a competition & a business & ruthlessness on & off the field is a part of that. Where is this list of "ethics" or standards by which we should all opperate? If a club breaks the AFL rules then the AFL should deal with them. Hurting the feelings of whiny kids on BF isn't a factor & neither is the ego of a journo who has an axe to grind because we replaced here favorite son as coach & sacked her leak from our board.

 

[Cicatriz]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

Lol, Geelong are proof that AFL is a brutal business and you have to make the most of your time in the sun cos it does not take long for the fall to come.

It seems like you might be one of those people who are keeping a list of all the commentators who tipped against Collingwood in the GF for your own strange, personal retribution. Live the dream my friend!

 

[LonCat]

Who cares?

Well, perhaps only those who see honesty rather than deception as a virtue, along with a preparedness to fulfill commitments (ie. Contracts). There seems to be a fair bit of duplicitous behavior around AFL circles these days and acceptance of this as valid says a lot about personal value sets. Not a set of traits I'd applaud as the norm in any organization.

 

[morgoth]

I think you're being a bit harsh on Costa. His comments were made at a private function at which there was a member of the media present. They then made their way into the papers. So he didn't like the succession plan. Big deal.

Well there was also the barracking for Brisbane back in 02/03.

I am taking the piss to be honest. If the Pies can replicate what the cats did ie win two flags i will be over the moon. Winning one is tough but getting another one is even tougher as everyone comes after you once you are top dog and as MM said he invented our box strategy to beat Geelong, it took him 4 years to get it right.

Right now every coach in the AFL will be trying to dismantle the Pies game plan, someone will get it right, our players will get battle fatigue.

 

[vinum coupe]

Meh, when Geelong get themselves a new coach, there's a good chance he's going to want to clean house and bring in his own people.

If that's the case, Geelong just saved themselves from paying him out for 3 years.

Close. But he was going to a new role, so it wouldn't have affected him.

Anyhoo, move on.

 

[CF]

The only loss that hurts the Club is Gary Ablett as he is a once in a generation player you can't replace him. The coaching staff changes at every club at some stage and ultimately Thompson and others would have gone eventually.

McCartney was taking over the Football Academy at Geelong which was a non-match day role. He decided he wasn't quite ready to give up match day coaching so he took the Essendon offer.

Also it is known that Ken Hinkley & McCartney don't exactly get along so when Hinkley becomes our next coach it may have been on the cards for McCartney anyway to be let go. So all things being equal McCartney's decision to leave makes sense from his perspective.

Once Hinkley is installed things will settle down. We still have a very good list and strong leaders at the club. Hardly being dismantled. The Cats will be back in 2011 kicking arse and taking names as per usual.

 

[DaVe86]

It has been a bit of a fall. However, it is not empire over unless they drop off next year.


To this stage, they made yet another preliminary final after making 3 straight GF's (winning 2).

We are witnessing what seems to be the start of the crumble....but GEelong was always about a lot more than just Gary Ablett or just Mark Thompson. Until they actually start losing, I consider them a quality opponent.



In the end, if Collingwood is as successful over the next 2 years as Geelong were between 2007-2010, then bring it on I say!


Instead of jumping in to throw knives in the coffin, I reckon we should pay a bit of respect to a side which has dominated the comp for 4 years. And it may not be over yet

 

[Pessimistic]

Instead of just marking time for Bomber etc, Geelong get to move into their future 1 year early.

Can't see the downside myself (apart for GAJ obviously)

 

[Testekill]

Hello, Hello

You know what, I'll pay that. Good call.

 

[Kimbo]

"Thompson has also made no secret... of his less-than-flattering opinion of Cook's performance in recent times..."

What is this about? I reckon Cook is one of the better CEOs. What would Bomber be cricising him for?

Regardless, I reckon he was definitely burnt out. Losing the plot with various others is usually a symptom.

Back to the OP, it's a real shame the way the Cats have imploded. Have had a lot of respect for them as an organization, a club and a team.