Review GBU vs Freo

[marty36]

A few weeks back a few of us said to drop Atkins for lack of intent.

I wonder if we had would we have had more than 54 tackles on the weekend?

The blokes are playing safe knowing no one will get dropped except for the kids.

That’s because we have nothing worth replacing them with


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hey shorty]

That’s because we have nothing worth replacing them with


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

We have plenty of blokes that could have similar impact offensively with more defensive action.

 

[Elite Crow]

That’s because we have nothing worth replacing them with


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I’m sure Galluci could have matched Atkins 2 x 14 possessions games. Or instead of Milera playing half forward against GWS he plays half back and Mackay on the wing.

I don’t rate Mackay but at least he has a crack.

 

[GreyCrow]

I would keep CEY. Sure ask the question but he is doing OK. He has been asked to do more than he can offer. That's not his fault.

 

[marty36]

I’m sure Galluci could have matched Atkins 2 x 14 possessions games. Or instead of Milera playing half forward against GWS he plays half back and Mackay on the wing.

I don’t rate Mackay but at least he has a crack.

Galluci's output has proven to less than Atkins it has been shown, that isn't up for debate


The problem we have is our depth has been tested and we have nothing left those that cant make the team is either they aren't ready like Sig,Jarman,Edwards,McPherson,Rob,Himmelberg then you have Otten and Cheney who would be looking at a recall but are they any better or would make any impact. We have no real KPP's capable of over taking what we have and we have our best mids in, obviously missing Sloane and Crouch hurts, CEY and Greenwood aren't capable of replacing them, and that's not a dig at those two, they will never be as good as them, both are somewhat depth players. But it goes to show we are lacking a lot of depth as we played an injury depleted Freo who shouldn't have beaten us

 

[GameofSloanes]

A few weeks back a few of us said to drop Atkins for lack of intent.

I wonder if we had would we have had more than 54 tackles on the weekend?

The blokes are playing safe knowing no one will get dropped except for the kids.

No one is getting dropped because there is no one that is better to come in.
Which is not the same as saying that they don't deserve to get dropped. It's just that the performance of the guys in the SANFL doesn't warrant their promotion either. The exception is Wilson - to date the only reason he isn't getting picked imo is that he is an inside player, and we already have too many of those playing, and CEY's output was ok (just OK). That is no longer the case, so I'd give Wilson a go now and drop CEY.

 

[CrowBloke]

I don’t feel it’s a betrayal to call Sauce cooked. It doesn’t take away from the immense player he has been for us. But just like with thommo, his has run his race now.

This, sadly .
If they'd managed/rested/dropped (<== depends on whom you believe) him after the Melbourne hammering, we'd have gotten 3 games into ROB before the bye and Sauce could return totally refreshed if ROB was a bust.

 

[marty36]

No one is getting dropped because there is no one that is better to come in.
Which is not the same as saying that they don't deserve to get dropped. It's just that the performance of the guys in the SANFL doesn't warrant their promotion either. The exception is Wilson - to date the only reason he isn't getting picked imo is that he is an inside player, and we already have too many of those playing, and CEY's output was ok (just OK). That is no longer the case, so I'd give Wilson a go now and drop CEY.

Exactly we don't have players that can come in and make any sort of difference, the argument could be that if you fail at the top level you need to be dropped but I doubt in terms of winning a game the depth players will make any impact, the players missing are the only ones which will truly affect the outcome being Smith Laird, Sloane Gov Crouch lynch but they are injured and lose one more game and apart from laird who is a chance at the brownlow you would leave the rest out until fully recovered

 

[SaltPeter]

This, sadly .
If they'd managed/rested/dropped (<== depends on whom you believe) him after the Melbourne hammering, we'd have gotten 3 games into ROB before the bye and Sauce could return totally refreshed if ROB was a bust.

ROB did his shoulder against North Ad about 4-5 weeks ago. SANFL team had a bye the following week. From a number of comments posted on the SANFL thread it sounds like he's still carrying an injury.

 

[Betts are off]

Galluci's output has proven to less than Atkins it has been shown, that isn't up for debate


The problem we have is our depth has been tested and we have nothing left those that cant make the team is either they aren't ready like Sig,Jarman,Edwards,McPherson,Rob,Himmelberg then you have Otten and Cheney who would be looking at a recall but are they any better or would make any impact. We have no real KPP's capable of over taking what we have and we have our best mids in, obviously missing Sloane and Crouch hurts, CEY and Greenwood aren't capable of replacing them, and that's not a dig at those two, they will never be as good as them, both are somewhat depth players. But it goes to show we are lacking a lot of depth as we played an injury depleted Freo who shouldn't have beaten us

I massively disagree with your assessment of Greenwood, I think we're seeing but a fraction of what he's capable of in years to come! Right now he flashes in and out of games way too much, but the kid's only 27 games into his career and is fearless at any contest (aerial, ground, loose-ball). I'm guessing by the time he reaches 80 games he will be arguably our best midfielder! And that's regardless of whether or not Sloane's still playing for us.

CEY, no arguments here! Should be a #6-7 midfielder on our list, certainly not a #2-3

 

[CrowBloke]

We have plenty of blokes that could have similar impact offensively with more defensive action.

is at odds with this:

we don't have players that can come in and make any sort of difference

hey shorty , who are the "plenty" you're referring to, please? Our SANFL side is bottom, winless, with the worst attack and even worse defence, which would suggest there's not much to be said for their defensive action.

 

[CrowBloke]

The footage that Footy Classified showed of CEY's defensive non-efforts showed his lack of intent/determination. Not running back with Langdon was lazy football and cost us their easy goal. In a close game, such efforts can define a game's result. Atkins is even worse, avoiding physical contact and tackling altogether, but he covers much more ground.
Does anybody have numbers on CEY'S average ground covered/ game? If it's high, he's defensively VERY lazy. If it's low he's under-fit and/or lazy. Either way ... . He's built like a tank and tackles hard/often, but only in congestion. We all ready have plenty of tall forwards and CEY is not mobile enough to play forward anyway.

 

[Betts are off]

Milera seems to be one of a very few in our team playing with some energy. I've seen him a number of times over the last couple of weeks running to provide an option immediately after disposing the ball. Most of our other players just look tired and sluggish.

I know he's found his role at HB but i'm pretty keen to see Milera go on the ball for patches for this very reason. We need his speed an intent in the guts to get us out of this funk. Our midfield group is like watching 4 Murray Princess's trying to do a U-Turn all at once

 

[CrowBloke]

ROB did his shoulder against North Ad about 4-5 weeks ago. SANFL team had a bye the following week. From a number of comments posted on the SANFL thread it sounds like he's still carrying an injury.

Ah, ok thanks.
In that case, we're rooted ruck-wise.

 

[Vader]

I don't claim to know the contract renewal dates of each assistant but the cycle is different to the head coach, Sanderson and Walsh didn't get to finish their terms so I doubt had much say in extending the assistants' tenures, and Pyke inherited most of the current crew. I think management has had more say than any head coach since Craig.
If what you say is true however, it's a bit of an indictment of the senior coaches. Renewal is needed in any organisation particularly when ultimate success has been elusive.

Each coach would be on an individual contract, and they're probably similar lengths to the players' contracts - which are mostly 2 or 3 years. Neil Craig was in charge for 6 years, Sanderson 3, and Pyke is in his 3rd. It's highly likely that every assistant's contract has been renewed at least once under each of these coaches. Walsh was only around for 6 months, so I will happily concede on that one.

I get that you're unhappy with them. You're not on your own - criticising our assistant coaches is a popular pastime in these parts. Regardless of your personal feelings, all evidence from the club suggests that the senior coaches have all been happy with their performances. The assistants would have been moved on long ago if that weren't the case.

 

[Vader]

I massively disagree with your assessment of Greenwood, I think we're seeing but a fraction of what he's capable of in years to come! Right now he flashes in and out of games way too much, but the kid's only 27 games into his career and is fearless at any contest (aerial, ground, loose-ball). I'm guessing by the time he reaches 80 games he will be arguably our best midfielder! And that's regardless of whether or not Sloane's still playing for us.

CEY, no arguments here! Should be a #6-7 midfielder on our list, certainly not a #2-3

Greenwood's problem is a lack of fitness. He has the ability, but he fades in and out of games because he lacks a big enough "tank". Greenwood may have only played 27 AFL games, but he's 26 years old, has 3 pre-seasons under his belt, and has been a professional sportsman for 10 years. It is unlikely that his "tank" will improve much from here on in, so he's probably close to his ceiling as a player. He may improve his skills and decision making slightly, but he's unlikely to become the player you're predicting.

Last year Greenwood was behind Sloane, Brouch, Mrouch and Douglas in our midfield rotations. Now he's the #1 or #2, depending on how you see Matt Crouch's current performance. This means that he's been forced to spend a lot more time in the middle, as a result of which he's getting close to being cooked. Hopefully he can return to being 5th or 6th banana next year, as this really suits his strengths.

 

[hey shorty]

No one is getting dropped because there is no one that is better to come in.
Which is not the same as saying that they don't deserve to get dropped. It's just that the performance of the guys in the SANFL doesn't warrant their promotion either. The exception is Wilson - to date the only reason he isn't getting picked imo is that he is an inside player, and we already have too many of those playing, and CEY's output was ok (just OK). That is no longer the case, so I'd give Wilson a go now and drop CEY.

When you're talking about Atkins it's all about intent. In which case, you could easily bring a kid in who will crack in as hard or provably harder

 

[Golumless]

We got a 3rd rounder for Lyons, doubt we get a good pick for CEY.

Probably not. He's a painfully obvious depth option.

 

[Elite Crow]

Galluci's output has proven to less than Atkins it has been shown, that isn't up for debate


The problem we have is our depth has been tested and we have nothing left those that cant make the team is either they aren't ready like Sig,Jarman,Edwards,McPherson,Rob,Himmelberg then you have Otten and Cheney who would be looking at a recall but are they any better or would make any impact. We have no real KPP's capable of over taking what we have and we have our best mids in, obviously missing Sloane and Crouch hurts, CEY and Greenwood aren't capable of replacing them, and that's not a dig at those two, they will never be as good as them, both are somewhat depth players. But it goes to show we are lacking a lot of depth as we played an injury depleted Freo who shouldn't have beaten us

Galluci has been playing the small forward role, his output is going to be less than Atkins but in the same position?

Irrespective I would have put Mackay on the wing, Milera at half back and left Galluci.

We’ve allowed Atkins softness to continue and when he’s producing 2x14 possession games he is offering nothing. We drop him for a game and maybe he would have contributed more on the weekend and the rest of the team may have been motivated to have more than 54 tackles in such a crucial game.

GWS were under the pump when they played us, their response 33 tackles in the first quarter and over 90 for the game. You don’t need your best 18 to apply pressure, you need guys who are having a crack, unlike Atkins.

 

[Golumless]

A few weeks back a few of us said to drop Atkins for lack of intent.

I wonder if we had would we have had more than 54 tackles on the weekend?

The blokes are playing safe knowing no one will get dropped except for the kids.

Probably with 54 tackles and still a losing streak. Whilst apart of the problem, I have my doubts intent can be fixed without fixing the fitness of the group.

I wouldn't say they are playing it safe. They just look destroyed physically and a flow on from that, mentally. They've had that feel since the Melbourne game.

 

[Betts are off]

Greenwood's problem is a lack of fitness. He has the ability, but he fades in and out of games because he lacks a big enough "tank". Greenwood may have only played 27 AFL games, but he's 26 years old, has 3 pre-seasons under his belt, and has been a professional sportsman for 10 years. It is unlikely that his "tank" will improve much from here on in, so he's probably close to his ceiling as a player. He may improve his skills and decision making slightly, but he's unlikely to become the player you're predicting.

Last year Greenwood was behind Sloane, Brouch, Mrouch and Douglas in our midfield rotations. Now he's the #1 or #2, depending on how you see Matt Crouch's current performance. This means that he's been forced to spend a lot more time in the middle, as a result of which he's getting close to being cooked. Hopefully he can return to being 5th or 6th banana next year, as this really suits his strengths.

I get that, but he was a basketball player until he was 23. That's not the same kind of running/fitness at all, it would have taken him over a year to even get his body out of that highly anaerobic style of fitness. In fact having that kind of fitness ingrained in him for the majority of his development years was probably detrimental to his ability to build an AFL tank as he would have had to completely change his athletic profile as an adult (which is a hell of a lot harder then doing it as a 18 year old). I think his tank will definitely keep improving over the next 50 games/2 seasons for this reason alone.

You said it yourself he has the ability, we've all seen it. And that next step is too turn his average 19 possessions a game into 26-28 possessions a game! And with the unique skills he flashes currently, if you could get 7-9 more touches a game out of him I suspect he would be in our best players ever week.

 

[hey shorty]

is at odds with this:

hey shorty , who are the "plenty" you're referring to, please? Our SANFL side is bottom, winless, with the worst attack and even worse defence, which would suggest there's not much to be said for their defensive action.

Wilson, Sig, Hampton, hell even Edwards would have better intent than Atkins.

We aren't talking about something drastic, we are talking about a player with an unwillingness to put physical pressure on an opponent

 

[Vader]

I get that, but he was a basketball player until he was 23. That's not the same kind of running/fitness at all, it would have taken him over a year to even get his body out of that highly anaerobic style of fitness. In fact having that kind of fitness ingrained in him for the majority of his development years was probably detrimental to his ability to build an AFL tank as he would have had to completely change his athletic profile as an adult (which is a hell of a lot harder then doing it as a 18 year old). I think his tank will definitely keep improving over the next 50 games/2 seasons for this reason alone.

You said it yourself he has the ability, we've all seen it. And that next step is too turn his average 19 possessions a game into 26-28 possessions a game! And with the unique skills he flashes currently, if you could get 7-9 more touches a game out of him I suspect he would be in our best players ever week.

He's 26 years old, with 3x AFL pre-seasons under his belt. Do you really think he's ever going to build the kind of tank needed to sustain that level of performance? It's unlikely at best.

We need to accept him for the player he is, and give him a role which suits his strengths - as we did in 2017. Unfortunately, injuries have forced our hand in 2018, and he's been given more responsibility than his body is capable of sustaining.

 

[MRB37]

He's 26 years old, with 3x AFL pre-seasons under his belt. Do you really think he's ever going to build the kind of tank needed to sustain that level of performance? It's unlikely at best.

We need to accept him for the player he is, and give him a role which suits his strengths - as we did in 2017. Unfortunately, injuries have forced our hand in 2018, and he's been given more responsibility than his body is capable of sustaining.

Hasn't he had interrupted pre-seasons the past 2 years? Had foot surgery this pre-season at a minimum.

 

[Betts are off]

He's 26 years old, with 3x AFL pre-seasons under his belt. Do you really think he's ever going to build the kind of tank needed to sustain that level of performance? It's unlikely at best.

We need to accept him for the player he is, and give him a role which suits his strengths - as we did in 2017. Unfortunately, injuries have forced our hand in 2018, and he's been given more responsibility than his body is capable of sustaining.

Of course I do, for all the points I just told you. How many times have you changed sports as an adult? Also about his 3 preseasons that you like to quote;

1) Comes from a different sport with completely different demands on the body. Playing SANFL as a HFF was all anyone could hope for.
2) Got to AFL level and forced his way into a crowded team with no injuries to become a regular in a Grand Final quality team
3) Had surgery and missed large chunks of the preseason, so much so that he wasn't even suppose to play round 1 cause his preparation was too hampered.

He may have had 3 preseasons but his aerobic development in no-where near complete! And given his starting point I think its shown incredible progress to get to this stage.