Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[Toump Ass]

What I don't understand is why do people think tanking is bad?

Dees done heaps of tanking, not just the really obvious stuff the AFL gave us a fake fine (that they paid) for, but other tanking too.
We don't win the 2021 flag without the little dip that netted us Trent Rivers

24

Trent Rivers

Age

23

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

171.3

3star

D

10.7

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.0

3star

MG

171.3

3star

D

10.7

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.7

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

171.3

3star

, Kozzie Pickett and Dogga Jackson in one very sexy and attractive draft.

When Western Bulldogs and Brisbane Lions play successive finals campaigns, preliminary and grand finals, and still get the best talent in the draft: Darcy Ruckman, Jamarra Ugle Hagan, William Ashcroft etc. for junk picks, tanking becomes a necessity.

Collingwood "choose your own penalty for match-fixing" Magpies don't even have to pay Dayne Fingerpaint Beams into their salary cap after he eats himself out of match fitness, then they get a discount on a pretty good Daicos, and then they get the other soon-to-be-GOAT Daicos for nothing!

The draft is supposed to be in part an equalisation policy, yet it is corrupted by academy bidding, father-son rubbish, and good old fashioned draft tampering (hello Horny Francis!).

Tanking solves this inequality. Tanking is good.

 

[hk89]

Perhaps but I don't really see it that way, I see it as a coaching issue. Noting there are two opposing perspectives here

I have no doubt Mitchell is focussing more on attack than defense, but so have a few other coaches in the past few years who had a young group. None of those coaches got accused of doing that to tank. If we hadn't also ditched 3 mids out of a midfield that wasn't working (and has since improved across a few metrics), then I doubt this thread would exist.

It will be interesting to see how many games we do win this year. If Lewis comes back with some form, I wouldn't be surprised to see us finish above North. Will be interesting to see if the tanking blowtorch gets applied to Clarko if that is the case. They are a few years of development ahead of us, and have a more experienced coach. What's their excuse? Maybe Sam is just better at the thanking game than Clarko, we've lost our two close games, whereas North won theirs.

We are two narrow losses (and a lot of percentage) from being 1 game away from the 8. Again, Mitchell is either not very good at this tanking game OR so good at it he can rely on last gasp kicks from the boundary line from the opposition to keep his team in last spot. He is also so confident in our ability to finish last, that we can afford to win against the team most likely to win the spoon if we don't. Sounds implausible to me. A more believable explanation would be that Mitchell got rid of 3 players that he thought were not going to be part of our future success, and could (and did) lead to immediate improvement to our midfield numbers. He also figured taking the shackles off, and concentrating on attack might be more useful in the short term for development (and certainly not the first to come up with that idea). Would have looked less foolish had Gunston and Lewis been out on the park as reasonably assumed last year when Mitchell first started this approach.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

New to this thread so haven't read all the previous comments but I'm sure that the universal opinion is they are tanking and who could blame them with Tasmania coming into the comp. Last thing a club wants to be doing is rebuilding when Tasmania is receiving massive draft concessions.

Be negligent of Hawthorn not to go hard at the best youth for the next 2 or 3 years.

If we hit the draft for another 3 years we’ll have an average age of 21.

 

[Jimmy95]

If we hit the draft for another 3 years we’ll have an average age of 21.

Not sure about that if the best youth available will be at the Hawks' first two selections.

 

[MinerBoy]

Draft Mitchell, O'Meara, Wingard - lol Hawks ignore elite end of draft and select crabs.

Trade Mitchell & O'Meara - Hawks are tanking, trading players previously regarded as crabs and terrible pick ups.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why would a club planning to tank go and trade out their future second and third round draft picks? Has this been discussed yet?

No list manager in modern footy is daft enough to believe that one 18 year old kid is worth 12 months of on-field pain. That's what the tanking accusers are arguing.

Most of the rusted on naysayers in here can’t see passed the ladder or the percentage, so it might be a bit much to expect them to contextualise our trade moves.

 

[CobberRodgers]

I think that Hawks fans might be missing that the area of the ground they're being butchered in is on transition through the middle. Teams are waltzing it from one end to the other and the Hawks are finding it difficult to do the same.

(based on the total of about 2-3 full games across all their games that I've watched)

I think their midfield is overly focused on stoppages (where they're better than breaking even up to this week) and the rest of their midfield game is ordinary at best.

What's being built is a serviceable midfield, not a good one.

For me, yes and no to this.

Agree with you 100% on the first paragraph. Stoppage game is super strong, but we are being killed on transition both ways, as far as putting us against the AFL elite as a measure (which ultimately is the level you want to be).

As far as what we are building, we are effectively 1 year in to a 4/5/6 year build, it’s going to take a lot longer than half a pre season and 5 games of footy to work out what we are and how good we are at it.

We’ve improved drastically at the stoppage, and in the space of a month our pressure game has been a lot better as well. Small steps, it’s a slow burn.

Proof will be in the pudding by 2026/27. As long as I see consistent improvement along the way then I as a fan can buy into it.

There’s going to be good days and some absolute shockers on the way. We are coming from a long way back here.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I think that Hawks fans might be missing that the area of the ground they're being butchered in is on transition through the middle. Teams are waltzing it from one end to the other and the Hawks are finding it difficult to do the same.

(based on the total of about 2-3 full games across all their games that I've watched)

I think their midfield is overly focused on stoppages (where they're better than breaking even up to this week) and the rest of their midfield game is ordinary at best.

What's being built is a serviceable midfield, not a good one.

This is a horrendous take after 6 games

 

[Wormkilla]

I reckon Hawks fans would be worried about losing their sponsorship cash cow and their draft picks to this new Tassie team. Rightly so. The worst possible timing for Sicily to make those comments.

 

[Wormkilla]

This is a horrendous take after 6 games

Second last in inside 50’s but highest in clearance differential. That’s some serious butchering of the ball.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Second last in inside 50’s but highest in clearance differential. That’s some serious butchering of the ball

I missed the part where i said it is a finished product currently

 

[HeHateMe]

I think that Hawks fans might be missing that the area of the ground they're being butchered in is on transition through the middle. Teams are waltzing it from one end to the other and the Hawks are finding it difficult to do the same.

(based on the total of about 2-3 full games across all their games that I've watched)

I think their midfield is overly focused on stoppages (where they're better than breaking even up to this week) and the rest of their midfield game is ordinary at best.

What's being built is a serviceable midfield, not a good one.

This post is proof you haven't watched alot of Hawthorn over the last 3 weeks. Which is understandable you can't watch every game.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I reckon Hawks fans would be worried about losing their sponsorship cash cow and their draft picks to this new Tassie team. Rightly so. The worst possible timing for Sicily to make those comments.

Quoted your post to refute these comments then realised why you posted such rubbish. Not going to dignify it with a proper response.

 

[CobberRodgers]

I missed the part where i said it is a finished product currently

This is exactly what everyone is missing.

Thinking this team is now what it’s going to be forever.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I reckon Hawks fans would be worried about losing their sponsorship cash cow and their draft picks to this new Tassie team. Rightly so. The worst possible timing for Sicily to make those comments.

Yeah, we’re totally shaking in our boots, because this Tassie team has come out of nowhere completely.

 

[Vindicater]

Still think the young midfield will struggle big time in the second half of the season as they get banged up and tired but they do show positive signs for the future.

 

[Engimal v3]

I think so - the captain is even trying to ditch a major sponsor

 

[Blackhawk42]

Still think the young midfield will struggle big time in the second half of the season as they get banged up and tired but they do show positive signs for the future.

Worpel and Nash are doing a good job being the stronger, mature bodies at the moment. Newcombe didn't tire last season either.

The questions marks will be over Day, Mackenzie and Ward primarily.

Considering the 50/50 split it'll be a wait and see scenario I'd say.

 

[garlic munchers]

New to this thread so haven't read all the previous comments but I'm sure that the universal opinion is they are tanking and who could blame them with Tasmania coming into the comp. Last thing a club wants to be doing is rebuilding when Tasmania is receiving massive draft concessions.

Be negligent of Hawthorn not to go hard at the best youth for the next 2 or 3 years.

Hope you are listening WC?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Quoted your post to refute these comments then realised why you posted such rubbish. Not going to dignify it with a proper response.

It calls into question whether Sicily is really cut out to be captain.

If a player from practically any other club said it: not a problem. If another Hawthorn player said it: not great, but would blow over with a similar apology/clarification as Sicily has provided. But as the captain of the Hawthorn Football Club, that's a significant and unnecessary issue and suggests he's a loose cannon.

You've got to be better than that. KFC is a major partner too: is he going to be goaded into saying it's utter crap and anyone who eats it on a weekly basis must have rocks in their head too?

 

[HeHateMe]

Still think the young midfield will struggle big time in the second half of the season as they get banged up and tired but they do show positive signs for the future.

Yeah it's a concern, I'd think Nash, Worps and Duke will probably be okay though. Hopefully Day as well. Looks like we have already started managing the other young guys through either the sub or a week off, wait and see how it goes.

 

[garlic munchers]

I reckon Hawks fans would be worried about losing their sponsorship cash cow and their draft picks to this new Tassie team. Rightly so. The worst possible timing for Sicily to make those comments.

Dumb comment Sicily, just gave the the AFL even more ammo in its coming argument that Tassie needs very significant salary cap concessions to attract and keep players.

Happy WC is bottoming out now and not having to compete with Tassie having pre-draft selections, draft concessions, Tassie academy and an anti sunburn allowance (according to the ABC, pollutants in the air absorb/reflect UV radiation and with Tassie being relatively free from pollutants, Taswegians receive more UV radiation than Melbournians which explains lots ).

 

[Leeda]

Second last in inside 50’s but highest in clearance differential. That’s some serious butchering of the ball.

No gracias for redundant commentary

 

[Jimmy95]

It calls into question whether Sicily is really cut out to be captain.

If a player from practically any other club said it: not a problem. If another Hawthorn player said it: not great, but would blow over with a similar apology/clarification as Sicily has provided. But as the captain of the Hawthorn Football Club, that's a significant and unnecessary issue and suggests he's a loose cannon.

You've got to be better than that. KFC is a major partner too: is he going to be goaded into saying it's utter crap and anyone who eats it on a weekly basis must have rocks in their head too?

Was thinking WTF when he first said it. A basic level of common sense in his role would've avoided such a silly statement.

Those inner Melbourne body waxing mummy's boys need to step out a bit.

 

[SSSSSS]

Was thinking WTF when he first said it. A basic level of common sense in his role would've avoided such a silly statement.

Those inner Melbourne body waxing mummy's boys need to step out a bit.

Sicily is from Keilor.

Keilor is Baghdad compared to Hobart.