Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[sr36]

Who was available to bring in? who would have come?

None of this means we were topping up when we were the youngest list in the comp.
It’s a ridiculous take that you need to own.

Do you disagree with any of this:

1. Mid 2022 it became well known that Hawks were looking to trade out their senior players for draft picks.
2. End of 2022 , they got rid of most of their senior players for nothing. And weren't linked to any trade targets
3. First half of 2023 Hawks were unsurprisingly terrible
4. Second half of 2023 they were surprisingly ok.
5. End of 2023 the Hawk leaders were talking finals
6 End of 2023 the Hawks chased some mediocre players to fill gaps and netted 3 mediocre players - one a former gun

Read those points and tell me one of the two hasn't occured:

a) Hawks changed strategy
b) Hawks overrated their players and thought it was time to top up.

 

[FB19]

Take the pick with most of your posts, it's a bit rich saying someone else's posts are bizarre coming from you. There was nothing wrong with his post

The comparison between Lever and a Sicily was rightly questioned as simplistic because as players whose best role is third defender intercepting they heavily rely on 2 things, upfield pressure and good KPDs. Dees have those Hawks do not, so whilst Lever excels at his role a lot of it is because he plays for Melbourne who have the dependencies he requires. It wasn’t a bizarre take it was overly simplistic.

 

[nelk boys]

Do you disagree with any of this:

1. Mid 2022 it became well known that Hawks were looking to trade out their senior players for draft picks.
2. End of 2022 , they got rid of most of their senior players for nothing. And weren't linked to any trade targets
3. First half of 2023 Hawks were unsurprisingly terrible
4. Second half of 2023 they were surprisingly ok.
5. End of 2023 the Hawk leaders were talking finals
6 End of 2023 the Hawks chased some mediocre players to fill gaps and netted 3 mediocre players - one a former gun

Read those points and tell me one of the two hasn't occured:

a) Hawks changed strategy
b) Hawks overrated their players and thought it was time to top up.

Who have we topped up with?

Gunston was brought back for leadership, he won't play more than 15 games this year. Chol was our last option after missing out on McKay and McClean. We needed support for Lewis. It was critical.

If you want to watch young sides without any form of leaders go watch Norf and Chelsea in the EPL. No sporting sides in the world can exist without leaders/vets to provide guidance in development.

 

[sr36]

The comparison between Lever and a Sicily was rightly questioned as simplistic because as players whose best role is third defender intercepting they heavily rely on 2 things, upfield pressure and good KPDs. Dees have those Hawks do not, so whilst Lever excels at his role a lot of it is because he plays for Melbourne who have the dependencies he requires. It wasn’t a bizarre take it was overly simplistic.

Sicily is a gun. We're due for a Howe replacement. I'm hoping Crazy Sammy changes tack again and decides it's time to trade out the senior players again.

 

[CharacterFirst]

What about Gold Coast with the alleged "lifestyle" appeal?

And Perth?

And Adelaide?

And the big clubs, in the big cities, in front of big crowds?

For 165 years being in Geelong was a distinct disadvantage.

For the last 5 years, a couple of players have found it attractive.

"Cheat location!"
"Cheat ground!"
"Cheat F/S picks!"
"Cheat free Pubs and Farms!"
"Cheat geriatric list!"

Pffft.

 

[sr36]

Who have we topped up with?

Gunston was brought back for leadership, he won't play more than 15 games this year. Chol was our last option after missing out on McKay and McClean. We needed support for Lewis. It was critical.

If you want to watch young sides without any form of leaders go watch Norf and Chelsea in the EPL. No sporting sides in the world can exist without leaders/vets to provide guidance in development.

I agree with the bolded. What was the end of 22 about? Chol a leader ... McLean, McKay? You weren't trying to add leaders. On the back of talking finals, you were filling holes in the team.

 

[nelk boys]

I agree with the bolded. What was the end of 22 about? Chol a leader ... McLean, McKay? You weren't trying to add leaders. On the back of talking finals, you were filling holes in the team.

When did I say Chol was a leader? He was an urgent list need. Gunston was brought back for leadership.

Chol, McCleane and McKay were targeted due to structural gaps in our spine.

So how have we topped up then?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Who have we topped up with?

Gunston was brought back for leadership, he won't play more than 15 games this year. Chol was our last option after missing out on McKay and McClean. We needed support for Lewis. It was critical.

If you want to watch young sides without any form of leaders go watch Norf and Chelsea in the EPL. No sporting sides in the world can exist without leaders/vets to provide guidance in development.

So if Hawthorn need leaders why did they kick out Mitchell, O’meara and Gunston who were proven AFL quality and go on to recruit 5 reserves players from other clubs? Then they bring back Gunston after a year of battling injury at Brisbane.

This on top of losing Smith and Shiels who have played meaningful football for other clubs and were great leaders.

Conman Sam’s strategy has flip flopped over the last 3 years.

 

[peetoo]

Two of those injuries are to Parker and Mills though, who I think you would agree are better than the average player.

I,saw Parker play on Sunday. Was hoping they’d bring him in underdone

 

[VinnieB]

I think the timeline is even worse than you're suggesting. If you look at you guys and the Dees, it's not 6-8 years from becoming crap, it's 6-8 years from finding the stars that you can build around. Your namesake had come and gone before you were in a position with a core group to become good. It was 6-8 from the draft where you added Weitering, Curnow and McKay and you had previously added Crisp. I don't think they've got that sort of talent on their books yet.

Also the Blues had more than 1 go at it. When it doesn’t come off, it’s a long, long time before you are a serious footy team.

 

[nelk boys]

So if Hawthorn need leaders why did they kick out Mitchell, O’meara and Gunston who were proven AFL quality and go on to recruit 5 reserves players from other clubs? Then they bring back Gunston after a year of battling injury at Brisbane.

This on top of losing Smith and Shiels who have played meaningful football for other clubs and were great leaders.

Conman Sam’s strategy has flip flopped over the last 3 years.

Because Mitchell, Shiels and O'Meara were leading the worst midfield in the league? Taking game time away from Day, Newk and Nash.

Gunston was brought back for leadership for the young players in box hill. Without Lewis he has been forced to play.

Smith decided to leave, we were desperate to retain him. We offered a multi year offer of more value than Geelong.

Shiels cannot get a game for North and wouldn't get a game for us either.

The strategy has never changed.

 

[peetoo]

I’d describe Carlton’s rebuilds in detail but I don’t have a spare 3 weeks.

1995 was it?

 

[Vindicater]

Sicily is a gun. We're due for a Howe replacement. I'm hoping Crazy Sammy changes tack again and decides it's time to trade out the senior players again.

I think Hawthorn fans are about to feel what Bulldogs fans felt when Lake was pinched from them.

 

[VinnieB]

And Perth?

And Adelaide?

And the big clubs, in the big cities, in front of big crowds?

For 165 years being in Geelong was a distinct disadvantage.

For the last 5 years, a couple of players have found it attractive.

"Cheat location!"
"Cheat ground!"
"Cheat F/S picks!"
"Cheat free Pubs and Farms!"
"Cheat geriatric list!"

Pffft.

I think Geelong has gone past it being simply for ‘lifestyle’. It’s obviously a very well run club that is always in a position to compete for premierships.

If it was just lifestyle, why wouldn’t a young guy want to live in Perth or the Gold Coast?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Because Mitchell, Shiels and O'Meara were leading the worst midfield in the league? Taking game time away from Day, Newk and Nash.

Gunston was brought back for leadership for the young players in box hill. Without Lewis he has been forced to play.

Smith decided to leave, we were desperate to retain him. We offered a multi year offer of more value than Geelong.

Shiels cannot get a game for North and wouldn't get a game for us either.

The strategy has never changed.

“If you want to watch young sides without any form of leaders go watch Norf and Chelsea in the EPL. No sporting sides in the world can exist without leaders/vets to provide guidance in development.”

You know the way this is headed. You just want to pick and choose where you apply your own logic.

 

[peetoo]

I think Hawthorn fans are about to feel what Bulldogs fans felt when Lake was pinched from them.

He was driven out cos bulldog cliquey players. Like Burgoyne from port.

 

[nelk boys]

“If you want to watch young sides without any form of leaders go watch Norf and Chelsea in the EPL. No sporting sides in the world can exist without leaders/vets to provide guidance in development.”

You know the way this is headed. You just want to pick and choose where you apply your own logic.

The subject was on topping up. We have not done that.

Gunston was brought back for leadership and relief for Lewis/Chol.

The others mentioned above would not get a game for us and would have harmed development in the midfield.

 

[FB19]

Sicily is a gun. We're due for a Howe replacement. I'm hoping Crazy Sammy changes tack again and decides it's time to trade out the senior players again.

Unlikely but what’s he worth? You don’t have the draft capital it would take if anyone could it would be Sydney.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Unlikely but what’s he worth? You don’t have the draft capital it would take if anyone could it would be Sydney.

If he was going to leave it would have been as a FA. He's here to stay, whether he has any reservations about signing on or not. Hopefully he gets to play some finals before he hangs them up, IMO he still got probably 4 good years left.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Do you disagree with any of this:

1. Mid 2022 it became well known that Hawks were looking to trade out their senior players for draft picks.
2. End of 2022 , they got rid of most of their senior players for nothing. And weren't linked to any trade targets
3. First half of 2023 Hawks were unsurprisingly terrible
4. Second half of 2023 they were surprisingly ok.
5. End of 2023 the Hawk leaders were talking finals
6 End of 2023 the Hawks chased some mediocre players to fill gaps and netted 3 mediocre players - one a former gun

Read those points and tell me one of the two hasn't occured:

a) Hawks changed strategy
b) Hawks overrated their players and thought it was time to top up.

I disagree with half of it. We didn’t get rid of most of our senior players in 2022.
We never had Hawk leaders talking up finals in 2023. That’s straight up bullshit.

You seem to think that we should’ve just fixed all holes in the list with 18yr olds, rather than securing experienced players.

Hawks never changed strategy and the fact you think we did tells me that you didn’t even know what our strategy was.

 

[sr36]

We never had Hawk leaders talking up finals in 2023. That’s straight up bullshit.

Ummm. You spent the whole preseason talking up how great your culture is because the players were talking finals...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Ummm. You spent the whole preseason talking up how great your culture is because the players were talking finals...

Rubbish.

Here’s what I wrote.
“The leadership group are already motioning that they will be pushing each other to challenge for finals on the back of the second half of 2023, as they should. Those performances should absolutely become the baseline in the search for consistency.”

No declarations of finals, just an expectation that the side I follow should absolutely be pushing each other to get there.

 

[Red Bull]

I think Hawthorn fans are about to feel what Bulldogs fans felt when Lake was pinched from them.

Who knows if this rebuild is for Sicily or not
What we do know is that rookie coach Mitchell desperately needs an onfield captain leading the way … and he hasn’t got it …

 

[sr36]

Rubbish.

Here’s what I wrote.
“The leadership group are already motioning that they will be pushing each other to challenge for finals on the back of the second half of 2023, as they should. Those performances should absolutely become the baseline in the search for consistency.”

No declarations of finals, just an expectation that the side I follow should absolutely be pushing each other to get there.

Anyway. I'm pretty confident that the Hawks will be better in the second half of the year, so you'll get to do it all again...You should just go back and copy all your posts to roll out again in December...

Te only real doubt is whether Crazy Sammy will be in a buying or selling mood.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Anyway. I'm pretty confident that the Hawks will be better in the second half of the year, so you'll get to do it all again...You should just go back and copy all your posts to roll out again in December...

I’ll do it just because you asked so nicely.