Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[AlwaysHawks15]

To be fair with the Wiz he's about 4 feet tall and it's going to be hard for anybody 6 foot+ (the vast majority of AFL players) to lay a legitimate tackle on him, especially when he goes so low and hard at the ball. He's fearless for a little guy.

It's a sport for all shapes and sizes so I don't mind the little guys getting some advantage. All the clever small forwards have it up their trickbag these days.

If hes going for the ball gets low and is taken high it should be a free kick for everyone. It's when the accentuation occurs when it should be play on ie rolling the shoulders or shrugging (The Selwood). All his free kicks were there on the weekend. Teams need to wait until he's upright before tackling him because of his height. That's the reality and they need to adjust.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The AFL are currently in the era of protecting the head at all costs, so they can’t then be happy to see or even advise umpires that a player of Nick Watson’s size shouldn’t get free kicks for high tackles if he gets taken high.

It’s going to be nearly impossible for players on a weekly basis to tackle Watson correctly in a split second without taking him high due to how tall he is.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I'm a Watson fan. I think he'll be a star of the game. I've got nothing against players playing for frees. Umpires should be well and truly on top of the Ginni style ones by now and just not pay them - really should be treated like a fend and paid holding the ball. Driving bent over at the tackler is another story and is indeed courageous - it's nuts though - really dangerous - and needs to go - the question is how to umpire it?

Breust does it more, it’s burrowing the head into the tackler, unless you remove your arms and make sure contact with such is only made below the shoulders or to allow them to run into you then tackle, is the only way to counter, a lot of players do it.

 

[sr36]

If hes going for the ball gets low and is taken high it should be a free kick for everyone. It's when the accentuation occurs when it should be play on ie rolling the shoulders or shrugging (The Selwood). All his free kicks were there on the weekend. Teams need to wait until he's upright before tackling him because of his height. That's the reality and they need to adjust.

Both he and Bruest got frees on the weekend where they stayed bent over and drove head first into stationary players. Moore does it regularly too. It's a dangerous one.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Both he and Bruest got frees on the weekend where they stayed bent over and drove head first into stationary players. Moore does it regularly too. It's a dangerous one.

This sort of belief that players should be able to pick the ball up and instantly be completely upright is quite perplexing.

Instead, we see people come up with theories and hyperbole that players are driving their head into their opponents, rather than the reality, which is that the players haven’t been able to pick up the ball and become upright without being taken high.

 

[sr36]

Breust does it more, it’s burrowing the head into the tackler, unless you remove your arms and make sure contact with such is only made below the shoulders or to allow them to run into you then tackle, is the only way to counter, a lot of players do it.

It's really dangerous, I think. It's one I'd be worried about in terms of protecting the player if I was the AFL, as the bloke initiating high contact regularly gets rewarded for it, and it's not just high contact - contact where he's intentionally in a really vulnerable position where anything forceful could do serious damage.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It's really dangerous, I think. It's one I'd be worried about in terms of protecting the player if I was the AFL, as the bloke initiating high contact regularly gets rewarded for it, and it's not just high contact - contact where he's intentionally in a really vulnerable position where anything forceful could do serious damage.

It would be near impossible to pick out from genuine head high frees in similar situations, hence the fact it hasn’t been brought up. Breust can do that or other times stay low which makes it easier to dodge with a low centre of gravity, or the time between ball pickup and the tackle.

 

[sr36]

This sort of belief that players should be able to pick the ball up and instantly be completely upright is quite perplexing.

Instead, we see people come up with theories and hyperbole that players are driving their head into their opponents, rather than the reality, which is that the players haven’t been able to pick up the ball and become upright without being taken high.

You're underestimating skill and awareness. If you're Nathan Krueger and don't have any technique, skill or awareness and are just running around like a lunatic, you'll go head first into stationary players - Bruest? Watson? Moore? Nah. They'll turn if they're trying to avoid high contact, but they're not - they're initiating it to get a free kick.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Both he and Bruest got frees on the weekend where they stayed bent over and drove head first into stationary players. Moore does it regularly too. It's a dangerous one.

The first free kick is a free kick. He's gone to pick up the ball and is driving forwards and is clipped over the shoulder. You would be spewing if that isn't paid to one of your players. Multiple times your players on the weekend dropped it in the tackle and it was called play on. That's more a blight on the current adjudication than the Watson free.

 

[sr36]

The first free kick is a free kick. He's gone to pick up the ball and is driving forwards and is clipped over the shoulder. You would be spewing if that isn't paid to one of your players. Multiple times your players on the weekend dropped it in the tackle and it was called play on. That's more a blight on the current adjudication than the Watson free.

I'm not complaining about them being paid on the weekend - they just are paid at the moment - it's clever play with the current umpiring. The AFL will need to crack down on it though, as you can't reward players for going bent over head first into opponents - it's too dangerous.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I'm not complaining about them being paid on the weekend - they just are paid at the moment - it's clever play with the current umpiring. The AFL will need to crack down on it though, as you can't reward players for going bent over head first into opponents - it's too dangerous.

Headfirst? He was coming up from picking up the ball how was he supposed to approach that contest. He got to the ball first and was rewarded. There's a good way to avoid giving a free kick away in that instance maybe get to the ball first yourself or wait till he's upright and than tackle.

 

[sr36]

Headfirst? He was coming up from picking up the ball how was he supposed to approach that contest. He got to the ball first and was rewarded. There's a good way to avoid giving a free kick away in that instance maybe get to the ball first yourself or wait till he's upright and than tackle.

We see it differently. I didn't see him as coming up nor turning, nor trying to avoid going head first into his opponent in any way. I see it as driving head first at a stationary player. Bruest's one later was less dangerous, as he wasn't driving with the same force as Watson. It's one I hope the coaches don't applaud and try to coach him to make a different decision in that situation as he was driving head down with real force into his opponent. You don't want a young star - and he is going to be an absolute star - doing that. It's too dangerous. You want him turning to avoid getting smashed in the head.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

We see it differently. I didn't see him as coming up nor turning, nor trying to avoid going head first into his opponent in any way. I see it as driving head first at a stationary player. Bruest's one later was less dangerous, as he wasn't driving with the same force as Watson. It's one I hope the coaches don't applaud and try to coach him to make a different decision in that situation as he was driving head down with real force into his opponent. You don't want a young star - and he is going to be an absolute star - doing that. It's too dangerous. You want him turning to avoid getting smashed in the head.

In the heat of battle your asking him to think instinctively to avoid getting hit in the head. Glad we got that out of the way. That is of course if he wasn't trying to draw a free kick. Different discussion than. The non interpretation of dropping the ball to me is a bigger issue personally.

 

[Sixpence]

This sort of belief that players should be able to pick the ball up and instantly be completely upright is quite perplexing.

Instead, we see people come up with theories and hyperbole that players are driving their head into their opponents, rather than the reality, which is that the players haven’t been able to pick up the ball and become upright without being taken high.

This. In nearly all cases of these apparent drives, the player is collecting the ball off the ground and hasn't had the time to stand upright.

 

[Yoda_]

It’s the way people went about it. I think it was Bartel who said despite the 0-5 start that the method and talent was there to quickly turn around and rise within 2024 and beyond.

Suggesting otherwise was silly because as Brad Scott says, people can be too result focused, as important as it is, process leading to that is the most important component.

Can respect AFL being a results based industry

Even winning games of football, I said Essendon had a bottom 4 list. Scott doing well to extract results but we are no where near a finished product


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[Dewyyyyy]

Can respect AFL being a results based industry

Even winning games of football, I said Essendon had a bottom 4 list. Scott doing well to extract results but we are no where near a finished product


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Results are most of the time because of a process, very unlikely that it is built off of anything else. That’s why clubs focus on what wins games not actually winning games itself, all the planning is done beforehand.

I can see where Scott comes from because I think process is super important in all capacities. If you nail the process you’ll win games.

 

[Yoda_]

Strapping Young Lad I wish my football club had the balls to do what your hawks have done. Were too gutless and nice we might hurt peoples feelings if we marched out club greats for the betterment of the club.

Unfortunately, it's still biting us in the backside some players are not forced out

I like what the Hawks are doing

 

[blue harvest]

Don't worry, I've got this bookmarked for when you finish bottom 4 again this year

View attachment 1967301

What happened to your bookmarks?

 

[Delisted]

This thread is great.

 

[NetworkNerd]

What happened to your bookmarks?

Still a chance of bottom 4

 

[Dipper]

Thing I have noticed about Hawks is the small forward brigade which may also be a reflection of trends in the competition. Its fair to say the value of good small forwards appears much higher than say 5 years back

I've been thinking the same thing myself... especially in finals games.

I'd like another fast one brought in to replace Breust, even if most people aren't seeing it as a need. I'm pretty happy playing only two talls ...one of whom is the auxiliary ruckman. At times if we need more height we can throw Weddle forward.

David Parkin mentored Sam Mitchell in his early years as a player at Box Hill, I wonder if he's espoused the merits of a mosquito fleet forward line now he's a coach.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I've been thinking the same thing myself... especially in finals games.

I'd like another fast one brought in to replace Breust, even if most people aren't seeing it as a need. I'm pretty happy playing only two talls ...one of whom is the auxiliary ruckman. At times if we need more height we can throw Weddle forward.

David Parkin mentored Sam Mitchell in his early years as a player at Box Hill, I wonder if he's espoused the merits of a mosquito fleet forward line now he's a coach.

I guess finals is intriguing to see how the small forwards go
Conventional thinking has long
been the need to have quality talls to go deep in September, but that's been challenged in recent years

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not a sleight on him. He's a good young player, but it is a sleight on the Hawks rebuild when he's the jewel in the crown of the rebuild.

Will Day was so underrated when he was out of the side injured.

 

[sr36]

Will Day was so underrated when he was out of the side injured.

Yeah. I certainly didn't realise how good he was. Slick as ****.

 

[SSSSSS]

Rebuilds are hard work Red Bull