List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

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philthy05 said:
You’re factually incorrect

1. Trengove played 19 games in 2017 so let’s not pretend he didn’t play heaps. Todd played 3 games (think I accidentally said 10 earlier).

Trengove played almost all year

2. Trengoves last game was in round 20. Todd didn’t play until round 22, so explain how the * Trengove was dropped for a developing tall when we didn’t pick that tall when Trengove went out?

3. Trengove was headed to the bulldogs as a free agent that off-season and it came out , gee what a coincidence, right about the time he went out of the team.

4. We didn’t even pick 3 kfs that year. Not really.

We kinda started off with 3, until we dropped eddy after round 3, then persisted with 2 until after round 20 when Hinkley dropped Trengove and we rolled with a single kf for a cpl of matches before bringing Todd into the side.

We could have, and should have , been playing 3 of Dixon Trengove eddy and Marshall all season. But Hinkley favoured smalls forward.

Hinkley dropping Trengove was absolutely not a case of him dropping a senior player to develop a tall.

There’s no way you can pass off dropping a player who’s just signed for another club, in an era Hinkley was going small up forward and a young kf who got 3 games was only brought in 2 weeks after said tall was dropped, was Hinkley dropping a senior tall to develop a younger tall…

There’s just no reality where 2+2 = 7 here.
Click to expand...
All good, 5 years on coaches can adapt and change.

Trengove aside;
Lycett was dropped for Teakle.
Jonas, our captain, has sat much of the year out.
Clurey hasn’t got a look in for the past 24 months despite being one of our more experienced and senior backmen.
Boak and Wines have been pushed from their starting centre square positions to allow for butters, drew and Rozee.
DBJ was shifted to HFF to allow for the young guys to come through.
Hartlett was moved on. Monfries, White, Lobbe, Ryder - all got moved on.
Raz sits on the sidelines despite ok form and fitness - McEntee and Evans selected ahead of him.

Point is, if Grundy comes to port and is the best ruck, then he should play. Equally Danté is young, has plenty of time to develop, will likely get better rucking against Grundy and will get chances with resting and injuries. Most of us didn’t think Danté would be ready till he was at least 22. That’s two years away. If he leaves, oh well, we will get another ruck, he was pick 50+ anyway and nothing to suggest he won’t just be passable as a ruck. But two years is also post Hinkley’s current contract, so maybe no worries anyway.
 
Shane McAdam anyone? Would cause a nice stir that’s for sure

On a more serious note, George won’t be fit and firing for the first half of the year, Dixon who knows, is Lord our sole back up?

If we land Grundy, do we keep Teakle? Presuming Hayes and Lycett go and Danté is kept on.

And say we land BZT and Ratugolea, does Pasini stay? We already will have McKenzie, MacCallum and Marshall.
 
Long live PAFC said:
Shane McAdam anyone? Would cause a nice stir that’s for sure

On a more serious note, George won’t be fit and firing for the first half of the year, Dixon who knows, is Lord our sole back up?

If we land Grundy, do we keep Teakle? Presuming Hayes and Lycett go and Danté is kept on.

And say we land BZT and Ratugolea, does Pasini stay? We already will have McKenzie, MacCallum and Marshall.
Click to expand...
McCallum isn't a key defender.

We could end up with Aliir, Ratugolea, BZT in the AFL. McKenzie, Pasini, Marshall in the SANFL.
 

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Long live PAFC said:
All good, 5 years on coaches can adapt and change.

Trengove aside;
Lycett was dropped for Teakle.
Jonas, our captain, has sat much of the year out.
Clurey hasn’t got a look in for the past 24 months despite being one of our more experienced and senior backmen.
Boak and Wines have been pushed from their starting centre square positions to allow for butters, drew and Rozee.
DBJ was shifted to HFF to allow for the young guys to come through.
Hartlett was moved on. Monfries, White, Lobbe, Ryder - all got moved on.
Raz sits on the sidelines despite ok form and fitness - McEntee and Evans selected ahead of him.

Point is, if Grundy comes to port and is the best ruck, then he should play. Equally Danté is young, has plenty of time to develop, will likely get better rucking against Grundy and will get chances with resting and injuries. Most of us didn’t think Danté would be ready till he was at least 22. That’s two years away. If he leaves, oh well, we will get another ruck, he was pick 50+ anyway and nothing to suggest he won’t just be passable as a ruck. But two years is also post Hinkley’s current contract, so maybe no worries anyway.
Click to expand...

You’re literally proving my point

1. Lycett should have been dropped for a younger ruck an eternity before he did.

That’s not an example of when Hinkley dropped a senior player to select a developing one, that’s an example of ignoring doing so for so long we become completely ****ed because of it

2. Again, same with Jonas. In fact even worse cause he should have been dropped long long long before he did, and my god we didn’t even pick and play a young tall in his place, we just played flankers instead.

3. I have no idea what you’re getting at with wines and boak. They’re not relevant at all what we’re talking about, nor have either been pushed out for youth. Boak is just finally done at an age all his contemporaries long vanished and wines is still playing onball through injury.

4. I have no idea what on earth relevance you see in the naming of guys like Ryder and monfries being moved on lol.
 
philthy05 said:
You’re literally proving my point

1. Lycett should have been dropped for a younger ruck an eternity before he did.

That’s not an example of when Hinkley dropped a senior player to select a developing one, that’s an example of ignoring doing so for so long we become completely ****ed because of it

2. Again, same with Jonas. In fact even worse cause he should have been dropped long long long before he did, and my god we didn’t even pick and play a young tall in his place, we just played flankers instead.

3. I have no idea what you’re getting at with wines and boak. They’re not relevant at all what we’re talking about, nor have either been pushed out for youth. Boak is just finally done at an age all his contemporaries long vanished and wines is still playing onball through injury.

4. I have no idea what on earth relevance you see in the naming of guys like Ryder and monfries being moved on lol.
Click to expand...
Jonas is our captain (rightly or wrongly)had an injury affected 2022 and is a senior and reliable contributor up until 2022. Lycett is a premiership ruck, who was our lead ruck in 2021 and injury riddled in 2022. Both players had a right to show if they were up to it at the start of the year. Both got that chance and both got dropped - not sure how that proves your point. Whether they were dropped for a young developing player or not is irrelevant.

Your point is that Hinkley will play Grundy into the ground and keep playing him over playing another ruck. My point is the experiences of Lycett, Jonas, Hartlett, Monfries, White - all show this not to be the case. Hell Mitch was kept out of the side for form in favour of Lord. DBJ was moved from HBF to HFF. Boak and Wines have seen less centre square action in favour of young players.

I think Grundy will play out his four remaining years and be solid. I think he’ll be great for the list now and will help Visentini/Hayes/Lord/Scully/Teakle improve. I don’t think we will lose someone because of his contract or him arriving, and if we do, oh well. And if Grundy gives us two years and Hinkley’s contract is done, then it’s on the next coach. If Hinkley is still here, he has shown he will make the call if required.
 
philthy05 said:
You’re factually incorrect

1. Trengove played 19 games in 2017 so let’s not pretend he didn’t play heaps. Todd played 3 games (think I accidentally said 10 earlier).

Trengove played almost all year

2. Trengoves last game was in round 20. Todd didn’t play until round 22, so explain how the * Trengove was dropped for a developing tall when we didn’t pick that tall when Trengove went out?

3. Trengove was headed to the bulldogs as a free agent that off-season and it came out , gee what a coincidence, right about the time he went out of the team.

4. We didn’t even pick 3 kfs that year. Not really.

We kinda started off with 3, until we dropped eddy after round 3, then persisted with 2 until after round 20 when Hinkley dropped Trengove and we rolled with a single kf for a cpl of matches before bringing Todd into the side.

We could have, and should have , been playing 3 of Dixon Trengove eddy and Marshall all season. But Hinkley favoured smalls forward.

Hinkley dropping Trengove was absolutely not a case of him dropping a senior player to develop a tall.

There’s no way you can pass off dropping a player who’s just signed for another club, in an era Hinkley was going small up forward and a young kf who got 3 games was only brought in 2 weeks after said tall was dropped, was Hinkley dropping a senior tall to develop a younger tall…

There’s just no reality where 2+2 = 7 here.
Click to expand...

You are factually incorrect as this interview with TripleM shows: Jackson Trengove Says He's 'Definitely A Chance' To Leave Port Adelaide

"Trengove didn’t play in the elimination final...The 26-year-old told Triple M his exit meeting with the Power was taking place this morning and confirmed he’ll be seeking answers as to whether he still fits into the club’s future plans.​
​
“I’ve got to have that honest conversation with the football club at 10 o’clock this morning.​
​
“I’ll ask if I fit in their picture, and if I don’t; I’ll definitely have to look elsewhere.”"​

How can you say Trengove had signed with another club during the regular season when as a restricted free agent Port had the option of matching the offer made by the Western Bulldogs during the free agency trade period?

Trengove was overlooked in the EF for Marshall which was a controversy at the time. Trengove had averaged almost a goal a game to that point of the year (17 goals) in a season where he had played back, forward and as second ruck. He was also averaging two clearances a game. Marshall had kicked 1 goal in 2 games with no ruck duties. If that is not favoring a younger player for a more senior player I don't know what is.
 
Trengove was a great defender and should never have been moved from defence, but he a complete fish out of water as a forward. 17 goals in 19 games as a KPF for the 2nd highest scoring side in the league says it all, but anyone watching him will know that it was a mistake to put him there.

I don't necessarily think it was about keeping a young tall out. Trengove was a great footballer who had been a warrior for us and we were trying to squeeze him in despite deciding that he didn't fit in our new defence and we didn't need him to play 1st ruck with Ryder back.

The mistake was taking him out of defence to begin with. He was an intelligent defender who could have grown into the system if given time. That's the 195+ KPD we've been missing for the past half a decade. We just cast him aside after ruining his career by playing him out of position.

Despite (IMO) playing Trengove as a KPF being more about wanting to get Trengove in the side than keeping out young players, let's not pretend that we were developing talls well back then. We played games in 2018 and 2019 with a key forwardline of Ryder and Westhoff, neither of whom were key forwards. It was only 2020 when Hinkley started playing Marshall that things started to turn around.

But that hasn't been the case in Ruck or KPD. We spent the 2nd half of last season chasing a finals spot with Finlayson in the ruck instead of giving those games to a developing ruckman, and we haven't blooded a KPD at all since Clurey, who is 29. We've moved a couple of KPFs back there to try them out, but we haven't even managed to stick with that, ultimately trading Dougal Howard over his role.
 
JimmyBC said:
Bicks: Grundy to Port, McAdam to Melbourne, X Duursma to Crows lol
Click to expand...
The media is hilarious. One braindead journo says Port should give up Duursma in a trade (while also incorrectly identifying Duursma as uncontracted) and now every other journo decides it's open season to throw him up as an option in every other trade involving Port, despite there being absolutely no suggestion from either Port or Duursma to suggest that Duursma might not be at Port next year.

I also like the bit where Bickley seems to think that a uncontracted 28 year old wantaway Shane McAdam is even in the same ballpark of trade value as either Grundy or Duursma. They'll be lucky to get a future third rounder for him.
 
Powerage said:
You are factually incorrect as this interview with TripleM shows: Jackson Trengove Says He's 'Definitely A Chance' To Leave Port Adelaide

"Trengove didn’t play in the elimination final...The 26-year-old told Triple M his exit meeting with the Power was taking place this morning and confirmed he’ll be seeking answers as to whether he still fits into the club’s future plans.​
​
“I’ve got to have that honest conversation with the football club at 10 o’clock this morning.​
​
“I’ll ask if I fit in their picture, and if I don’t; I’ll definitely have to look elsewhere.”"​

How can you say Trengove had signed with another club during the regular season when as a restricted free agent Port had the option of matching the offer made by the Western Bulldogs during the free agency trade period?

Trengove was overlooked in the EF for Marshall which was a controversy at the time. Trengove had averaged almost a goal a game to that point of the year (17 goals) in a season where he had played back, forward and as second ruck. He was also averaging two clearances a game. Marshall had kicked 1 goal in 2 games with no ruck duties. If that is not favoring a younger player for a more senior player I don't know what is.
Click to expand...


That’s completely wrong.

As I’ve already shown, Trengove was dropped after round 20. Marshall didn’t come into the side until round 22, so how the **** was Trengove dropped for a developing tall when we didn’t pick that developing tall when Trengove was dropped?


Also, in regards to the EF Trengove was out of the side. West coast had a very tall backline and we played a very short forward line with only Dixon and a young todd surrounded by short people.

The calls by the media and by our fans was to bring in Trengove but Hinkley brought in an underdone impey. We got smashed. The choice was between impey and Trengove, not Todd and Trengove.
 

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philthy05 said:
That’s completely wrong.

As I’ve already shown, Trengove was dropped after round 20. Marshall didn’t come into the side until round 22, so how the * was Trengove dropped for a developing tall when we didn’t pick that developing tall when Trengove was dropped?


Also, in regards to the EF Trengove was out of the side. West coast had a very tall backline and we played a very short forward line with only Dixon and a young todd surrounded by short people.

The calls by the media and by our fans was to bring in Trengove but Hinkley brought in an underdone impey. We got smashed. The choice was between impey and Trengove, not Todd and Trengove.
Click to expand...
Its semantics mate. Bigfooty went into meltdown when a raw Marshall was picked for the instead of Trengove. Maybe not "dropped" for him per se ... But the effect was the same, and it drove Trengove to seek a trade.
 
Orange crush said:
Ok guys …. I see that Duursma is being mooted as trade bait above …. We are keen on his brother with pick 6 and you owe us for Finlayson ( glad he’s doing so well) …. What’s say you send us Duursma and let him play with his brother?
Click to expand...
Cal Twomey on Duursma at 45 seconds of this clip.
 
Tibbs said:
Its semantics mate. Bigfooty went into meltdown when a raw Marshall was picked for the instead of Trengove. Maybe not "dropped" for him per se ... But the effect was the same, and it drove Trengove to seek a trade.
Click to expand...

No it didn’t

In all certainly the decision to remove him from our backline is what drove to tonaccept the free agency offer from the dogs, not being left out of the team in the last game of the year.

Also, anyone who took issue with Todd being in the team instead of bringing in an underdone impey who from memory hasn’t played any football the week before ( maybe a few weeks?) is a bloody moron. Many of us called that out as dumb at the time, and it’s still a dumb call.

That eras devotion to playing a Sam gray Jake Neade forward line made things far more difficult than what it needed to be.
 
philthy05 said:
No it didn’t

In all certainly the decision to remove him from our backline is what drove to tonaccept the free agency offer from the dogs, not being left out of the team in the last game of the year.

Also, anyone who took issue with Todd being in the team instead of bringing in an underdone impey who from memory hasn’t played any football the week before ( maybe a few weeks?) is a bloody moron. Many of us called that out as dumb at the time, and it’s still a dumb call.

That eras devotion to playing a Sam gray Jake Neade forward line made things far more difficult than what it needed to be.
Click to expand...
Yes he had been dicked around by Ken all year and didnt have a defined position by season's end. It doesnt matter WHO you say they officially replaced Trengove with. Marshall was an unwanted appendage in the game & we needed Trengove's height around the ground.

Bigfooty was screaming for Trengove to be picked.
 
Tibbs said:
Yes he had been dicked around by Ken all year and didnt have a defined position by season's end. It doesnt matter WHO you say they officially replaced Trengove with. Marshall was an unwanted appendage in the game & we needed Trengove's height around the ground.

Bigfooty was screaming for Trengove to be picked.
Click to expand...

Yea we were. And instead we picked impey, who hadn’t played in a couple of weeks.

We went into that game with a spine of

Clurey Howard Ryder Marshall and Dixon.

An incredibly short team.

We should have named Trengove, not impey.


We’ve all seen since how much better we’ve looked when we’ve played a proper structure.
 
El_Scorcho said:
Trengove was a great defender and should never have been moved from defence, but he a complete fish out of water as a forward. 17 goals in 19 games as a KPF for the 2nd highest scoring side in the league says it all, but anyone watching him will know that it was a mistake to put him there.

I don't necessarily think it was about keeping a young tall out. Trengove was a great footballer who had been a warrior for us and we were trying to squeeze him in despite deciding that he didn't fit in our new defence and we didn't need him to play 1st ruck with Ryder back.

The mistake was taking him out of defence to begin with. He was an intelligent defender who could have grown into the system if given time. That's the 195+ KPD we've been missing for the past half a decade. We just cast him aside after ruining his career by playing him out of position.

Despite (IMO) playing Trengove as a KPF being more about wanting to get Trengove in the side than keeping out young players, let's not pretend that we were developing talls well back then. We played games in 2018 and 2019 with a key forwardline of Ryder and Westhoff, neither of whom were key forwards. It was only 2020 when Hinkley started playing Marshall that things started to turn around.

But that hasn't been the case in Ruck or KPD. We spent the 2nd half of last season chasing a finals spot with Finlayson in the ruck instead of giving those games to a developing ruckman, and we haven't blooded a KPD at all since Clurey, who is 29. We've moved a couple of KPFs back there to try them out, but we haven't even managed to stick with that, ultimately trading Dougal Howard over his role.
Click to expand...
Don't think its a surprise to anyone that Hinkley plays his favourites like he's coaching Camperdown B Grade. Due to the fact that Hinkley is never wrong Jacko probably tested the breeze and knew that Hinkley would never return him to defence because that's admitting he's wrong. And for that reason I'd say he used his free agency. Takeaway is Hinkley is never wrong.

Takeaway 2 - Clurey and Lycett get busy and the heck out of this rabble.
 
Ooh, oooh, I can play Port Adelaide Jeopardy too! The category is 'Port drafting and selection 'mis-takes':

One of the KPD Port Adelaide blooded during Ken Hinkley's tenure as coach.

"Who was Logan Austin?"

This was the reason why Port Adelaide never developed a KPD from the draft.

"What is a policy of selecting the best available player in late rounds?"

Jackson Trengove never played in defence after 2015 for this reason.

"What was he wasn't suited to playing a forward half territory game?"

And for the Daily Double, why do people on this board still obsess over this rubbish when our current list has made top four 3 out of the last 4 years, while still lumping it in with the failures of the 2013-2017 list when discussing the tenure of the coach.

"What is cognitive dissonance?"
 
Janus said:
Ooh, oooh, I can play Port Adelaide Jeopardy too! The category is 'Port drafting and selection 'mis-takes':

One of the KPD Port Adelaide blooded during Ken Hinkley's tenure as coach.

"Who was Logan Austin?"

This was the reason why Port Adelaide never developed a KPD from the draft.

"What is a policy of selecting the best available player in late rounds?"

Jackson Trengove never played in defence after 2015 for this reason.

"What was he wasn't suited to playing a forward half territory game?"

And for the Daily Double, why do people on this board still obsess over this rubbish when our current list has made top four 3 out of the last 4 years, while still lumping it in with the failures of the 2013-2017 list when discussing the tenure of the coach.

"What is cognitive dissonance?"
Click to expand...

We've absolutely improved in terms of structure and selection philosophy which has gone a long way toward that better regular season record. We've undeniably bungled our ruck and KPD development.

Cognitive dissonance is claiming success for a coach in an industry where success is very well defined and he hadn't had any.
 

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List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

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