List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

[Long live PAFC]

Not trade what amounts to two first round picks.

Our future first and Duursma?

I’m sad to see Duurs go, seemed to love the club. But he was fringe 22. I don’t think he’ll be a huge loss. I’m surprised we couldn’t get anything for Hayes, Mead, Clurey, etc but don’t think they would have been the difference in any of our trades.

What was the alternative?


Did we need both Ratagolea and Zerk-Thatacher? Did we need both Soldo and Sweet?

What I would have done is, I would have targeted Zerk-Thatcher and then I would have found a cheap option for the second defender coming in. Either a DFA or mature aged player like Pink from Glenelg.

Same with the ruck you target Sweet use Hayes as a backup and go to the draft for the other ruck so 5 years time Sweet is 30 we have somebody ready.

If X wanted out you get the draft pick for X, you keep our first rounder next year or split it so we have 3 or 4 second round picks or you swap into this draft.

But No Hinkley wants it all now and * you all, if I don't get my premiership because while you rot in your own mire I will be sacked at home in Melbourne watching the dishlickers.

We’ve got depth and higher quality depth now. Sav is an improvement on Jonas, BZT/McKenzie/Burton can fight for the third tall spot.

Soldo, Sweet and Visentini is an upgrade on what we had. We weren’t backing in Hayes rightly or wrongly.

Had we not done the trades we would be in a worse space than this year.

We aren’t getting good quality draftees in this draft at the picks we had. We still have 2,3 and some 4ths next year.

Yea it feels over but I think it’s what we had to do and I don’t see an alternative.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Our future first and Duursma?

I’m sad to see Duurs go, seemed to love the club. But he was fringe 22. I don’t think he’ll be a huge loss. I’m surprised we couldn’t get anything for Hayes, Mead, Clurey, etc but don’t think they would have been the difference in any of our trades.

What was the alternative?


Did we need both Ratagolea and Zerk-Thatacher? Did we need both Soldo and Sweet?


We’ve got depth and higher quality depth now. Sav is an improvement on Jonas, BZT/McKenzie/Burton can fight for the third tall spot.

Soldo, Sweet and Visentini is an upgrade on what we had. We weren’t backing in Hayes rightly or wrongly.

Had we not done the trades we would be in a worse space than this year.

We aren’t getting good quality draftees in this draft at the picks we had. We still have 2,3 and some 4ths next year.

Yea it feels over but I think it’s what we had to do and I don’t see an alternative.

We threatened BZT through the draft. We wanted a minimum of BZT and a second rounder for Duursma. We got three fourth round picks.

We sold Duursma at an all time low value-wise while contracted. He will play another 100 games at least provided he has average luck with according impact type injuries that have plagued him so far.

We didn't need Soldo. We're now going to give the Sam Hayes treatment to one of he or Sweet. We could have just traded for Sweet, re-contracted Hayes or Lycett for one year and then taken Soldo as a free agent for no trade capital next year.

The players we have brought in will not be the difference in winning a premiership or not.

 

[davesnothere]

We threatened BZT through the draft. We wanted a minimum of BZT and a second rounder for Duursma. We got three fourth round picks.

We sold Duursma at an all time low value-wise while contracted. He will play another 100 games at least provided he has average luck with according impact type injuries that have plagued him so far.

We didn't need Soldo. We're now going to give the Sam Hayes treatment to one of he or Sweet. We could have just traded for Sweet, re-contracted Hayes or Lycett for one year and then taken Soldo as a free agent for no trade capital next year.

The players we have brought in will not be the difference in winning a premiership or not.

Lycett is physically finished.
Hayes there's no interest from other clubs as a trade that's telling you something. He gets a run as a DFA we shall see how that goes.

Soldo Rucks and is flexible enough that he could replace Dixon and allow us to play 2 Rucks.

We need him this year not next.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Lycett is physically finished.
Hayes there's no interest from other clubs as a trade that's telling you something. He gets a run as a DFA we shall see how that goes.

Soldo Rucks and is flexible enough that he could replace Dixon and allow us to play 2 Rucks.

We need him this year not next.

Lycett supposedly being physically finished yet the club planning to re-contract him before both Soldo and Sweet were traded in.

That Hayes was not taken by any other club is a reflection of our refusal to play him than a lack of ability.

If you replace Dixon with Soldo who are you not playing out of Marshall, Georgiades, Lord, Finlayson and Dixon?

Are you one of the ones that's been bullish on Visentini and saying he will be closing on ready to be primary ruck in 2024?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I can see us playing 2 rucks any game Charlie doesn't play.

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[Handyandy]

Lycett supposedly being physically finished yet the club planning to re-contract him before both Soldo and Sweet were traded in.

That Hayes was not taken by any other club is a reflection of our refusal to play him than a lack of ability.

If you replace Dixon with Soldo who are you not playing out of Marshall, Georgiades, Lord, Finlayson and Dixon?

Are you one of the ones that's been bullish on Visentini and saying he will be closing on ready to be primary ruck in 2024?

Gross mismanagement of both Lycett & Hayes by dumbass, Lycett the old war horse is run into the ground, played injured repeatedly, not allowed to recover for finals then his career is ruined. Hayes, the perennial whipping boy is barely ever given a run to the point where he has zero value/ confidence & career ruined.
Hinkley is the type of boss who needs a whipping boy to make himself feel good.
I predict Soldo to be the new Lycett, played every game till his leg falls off & he is broken by finals time, sweet the new Hayes, not given a shot so has no form confidence come finals.
Does it really matter who we have to play ruck if they are managed by Hinkley the career killer.

 

[Handyandy]

In 3 years time both rucks careers will be destroyed & Visentini won’t get another game, his development stalled whilst dumbass chases his next coaching contract.

 

[longdonkey]

Are you complaining that we are going all in to win a flag? Isn’t that what we demand every year? Why hate Hinkley for doing what you want Hinkley to do?

No I'm complaining that we are going all in to win a flag with Hinkley, and when he's gone and we have wasted Butters, Rozee and JHF You will sacrifice the next coach.

 

[philthy05]

Out of interest, what did people want us to do this off season?

Not fold to other teams demands and overpay when our targets were uncontracted.

No one gave a s**t about a reverse Coleman until this guy.

It’s been discussed at length he isn’t going to be a full back, like he was at times with the Bombers. Plus our defensive system is different.

Perhaps stop the whinging and let’s see how it goes. It’s sure as s**t got more hope than the 2023 defensive group

Zerk is going to be a fullback.

What position do you think he will play?

He’s not taking burtons medium defender role. He’s not going to be the loose intercepting player.

We play our defenders in a zone. It’s almost certain we play zerk in the same role we’ve played McKenzie and clurey in. Deepest key defender near the square, cause we will want Alir up around where most forward entries will be landing.

He should do alright, Alir and esava should chop off most of the attacks before they get to him, it will be the quick clearances against us that will test him.

Are you complaining that we are going all in to win a flag? Isn’t that what we demand every year? Why hate Hinkley for doing what you want Hinkley to do?

No one is complaining about trying to win a flag, they’re complaining because hinkleys management / development of certain positions and our clubs desperation to validate backing a coach for a historic amount of time has led to us burning a hole in the list for success now.

Nobody ever really talks about our forward line but for me it's the biggest concern.

We have 5 talls competing for maybe 3-4 spots and yet you wouldn't back any of them in to kick 40+ goals in a given season. They're all good but not great.

Todd kicked 45 a year ago and 36 this year in 21 games while being injured for a good portion of the year.

Georgiades isn’t going to kick 40 plus next season on his way back from an acl but he kicked 32 in 21 games as a teenager. He’s easily capable of that kind of return once he’s fit.

Finlayson kicked 38 goals last year.

We’ve absolutely got players capable of kicking 40+.

Will they? Who knows, I don’t think this next gen port forward line is so focused on a single player anymore. And that’s a good thing in my mind.

Agree on the small forwards. Rioli will be the only natural small / medium forward on our list.

I can see us playing 2 rucks any game Charlie doesn't play.

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I doubt it. Not sure sweet / soldo is a great combo.

Also, any game Dixon isn’t playing we have to be picking lord, and he can play / develop as a 2nd ruck.

 

[davesnothere]

Lycett supposedly being physically finished yet the club planning to re-contract him before both Soldo and Sweet were traded in.

That Hayes was not taken by any other club is a reflection of our refusal to play him than a lack of ability.

If you replace Dixon with Soldo who are you not playing out of Marshall, Georgiades, Lord, Finlayson and Dixon?

Are you one of the ones that's been bullish on Visentini and saying he will be closing on ready to be primary ruck in 2024?

Absolutely 21 yr old developing Dante goes past Sweet and Soldo as a Ruck by years end.

Dixon finished.
Georgiades still in recovery.
Finlayson struggling at the end of last season.

 

[Handyandy]

Statistically the forward line is not the problem.
The problem is mismanagement of our rucks and a flaky back six.

 

[RossFC]

It's a fascinating list balance we will take into 2023.

Aliir
Esava
BZT
Burton
McKenzie
Clurey
Pasini
Marshall
McCallum

That's a lot of tall defenders, and it's a reasonable group. If the top 4 are in the best 22, that leaves a 5 man tall defence for the SANFL. For the first time I can remember, we're not talking about our plethora of flankers, but instead the KPPs.

Even up forward we have Dixon, Marshall, Finlayson, Georgie, Lord, Scully. So there's some great depth and balance there.

Plus then in ruck we'll have 2 solid ready to play rucks and a 3rd just behind.

Really the only weakness we seem to have is that depth in our midfield, spilling into the half forwards. Mead can't play outside and is just going to be playing away in the SANFL the next couple years you'd think. Burgoyne must come on. Not sure Jackson has what it takes but could be the next Drew type for the mid group, realistically he's playing SANFL most of the year. Narkle might get some time on the wing, can be make it work? It's not a really inspiring depth group. And it all depends on Boak and Ollie finding how to fit their roles, plus JHF taking another step forward.

I wouldn't count Burton and McCallum as key backs.

 

[1954]

Aside from Visentini who I believe is just about a certainty to make the grade at AFL level, the other two `fringe' players I will be watching more closely than most in 2024 are Pasini and Sinn.

Pasini's form fell off a cliff in season 2023, and even cutting him a fair amount of slack for it being his first after a knee recon I am still making a harsh assessment.
I suspect a repeat of the season just gone could see him back in the wafl in 2025, but hopefully he will get back to the promising form he showed before his injury.

Sinn is the enigma, apart from a couple of cameo moments in televised Maggie's games I have seen nada to suggest he is going to be anything particularly special.
In those cameos he looked ok on a couple of occasions with his run from half back, but his disposal could be described as kick and hope at best.
If as reported an ongoing groin injury could be the source of his disposal problems hopefully he can get that right in the off season, and show why the club went so hard to draft him.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Are you complaining that we are going all in to win a flag? Isn’t that what we demand every year? Why hate Hinkley for doing what you want Hinkley to do?

I want the club to go all in to win a flag.

That involves getting an upgrade on our senior coach, or at least rolling the dice with Josh Carr.

Its like its been for a while now - a top 4 list with a bottom 4 coaching box. We need to go all in on every level to give ourselves the best chance.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Aside from Visentini who I believe is just about a certainty to make the grade at AFL level, the other two `fringe' players I will be watching more closely than most in 2024 are Pasini and Sinn.

Pasini's form fell off a cliff in season 2023, and even cutting him a fair amount of slack for it being his first after a knee recon I am still making a harsh assessment.
I suspect a repeat of the season just gone could see him back in the wafl in 2025, but hopefully he will get back to the promising form he showed before his injury.

Sinn is the enigma, apart from a couple of cameo moments in televised Maggie's games I have seen nada to suggest he is going to be anything particularly special.
In those cameos he looked ok on a couple of occasions with his run from half back, but his disposal could be described as kick and hope at best.
If as reported an ongoing groin injury could be the source of his disposal problems hopefully he can get that right in the off season, and show why the club went so hard to draft him.

It is getting to the point where you just have to play Sinn on the wing or down back and see what he can do with some confidence and a bit of gametime in the big league.

If he plays well, it's all good. If he duds out, you know what you got.

It is a bit weird because usually high draft picks get treated a bit better with Kenny Average but it is about that time to see what we have.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Absolutely 21 yr old developing Dante goes past Sweet and Soldo as a Ruck by years end.

Dixon finished.
Georgiades still in recovery.
Finlayson struggling at the end of last season.

The fact that you haven't mentioned them I assume Marshall and Lord are in your starting 18.

We just gave Dixon an extension. He's obviously not finished in the eyes of the big brains that traded for all these players that will get us to a flag.

Georgiades won't play much if at all next year but we've given Soldo a 4 year contract, yeah?

Finlayson struggled at the end but was our leading goal kicker. Plus "he's like another midfielder" when he plays ruck or some shit.

 

[Coobk001]

I wouldn't count Burton and McCallum as key backs.

Burton plays tall and small and probably plays his best footy as a key back IMO.

McCallum certainly played key roles last year and is 193cm. I'm not sure what role he can play for us at all to be honest, but it is most likely he is playing tall and small like Burton, but I'm unsure he has the skill required to play small.

 

[RossFC]

Burton plays tall and small and probably plays his best footy as a key back IMO.

McCallum certainly played key roles last year and is 193cm. I'm not sure what role he can play for us at all to be honest, but it is most likely he is playing tall and small like Burton, but I'm unsure he has the skill required to play small.

To me it looks like McCallum is pretty much filling Williams old spot at SANFL level.

 

[Handyandy]

Absolutely 21 yr old developing Dante goes past Sweet and Soldo as a Ruck by years end.

Dixon finished.
Georgiades still in recovery.
Finlayson struggling at the end of last season.

Visentini won’t get another afl game for 2 seasons at least. Even if soldo/ sweet go down Hinkley will play spp or wines to prove to the afl media what a genius he is.
The idea that Hinkley will suddenly learn how manage our ruck stocks properly is laughable

 

[Handyandy]

We came into this season with 3 decent ruck options.
Lycett needing management to get him ripe for finals.
Hayes a perfectly good back up needing game time to prep him for finals encase Lycett was injured.
Visentini, a good young prospect needing games for development.
So dumbass and co run Lycett into the ground before the finals. Bring him back too early from injury & effectively destroy his career prematurely.
Then dumbass pumps games into teakle who is later cut.
Then when no other option is available he reluctantly plays Hayes to try to save his bacon & hold onto a top 2 spot that he flushed down the toilet by bringing Lycett back too early.
Last season, no ruck experiment, reluctantly plays Hayes after 5 straight losses, Hayes does the trick and gets us back in the hunt only to drop him for finlayson/ Dixon experiment & season is gone.
Literally every season Hinkley has grossly mismanaged our rucks. He could have peak primus/ brogan/ lade & he would still stuff up the season & players careers.
But everything will be different now he has soldo/ sweet. They just need to draw straws to see who will be teachers pet & who will be whipping boy.

 

[davesnothere]

The fact that you haven't mentioned them I assume Marshall and Lord are in your starting 18.

We just gave Dixon an extension. He's obviously not finished in the eyes of the big brains that traded for all these players that will get us to a flag.

Georgiades won't play much if at all next year but we've given Soldo a 4 year contract, yeah?

Finlayson struggled at the end but was our leading goal kicker. Plus "he's like another midfielder" when he plays ruck or some s**t.

Dixon should not have got an extension.
Soldo essentially could play the role we had Finlayson playing but better.

That could possibly allow us to rotate Sweet/Dante out of the ruck during the year.

Dante you don't want playing too many games during the year ie. He's a kid you don't load up with too much too soon. A dozen games would be a good effort.

 

[Handyandy]

Dixon should not have got an extension.
Soldo essentially could play the role we had Finlayson playing but better.

That could possibly allow us to rotate Sweet/Dante out of the ruck during the year.

Dante you don't want playing too many games during the year ie. He's a kid you don't load up with too much too soon. A dozen games would be a good effort.

Visentini won’t get a game. Bookmark it. His development will be thrown in the bin.

 

[Handyandy]

Why would dumbass develop a player when he is trying to save his ass.
He played teakle ahead of Hayes/ Visentini.

 

[Long live PAFC]

We threatened BZT through the draft. We wanted a minimum of BZT and a second rounder for Duursma. We got three fourth round picks.

We sold Duursma at an all time low value-wise while contracted. He will play another 100 games at least provided he has average luck with according impact type injuries that have plagued him so far.

We didn't need Soldo. We're now going to give the Sam Hayes treatment to one of he or Sweet. We could have just traded for Sweet, re-contracted Hayes or Lycett for one year and then taken Soldo as a free agent for no trade capital next year.

The players we have brought in will not be the difference in winning a premiership or not.

Whilst we raised the ‘walk to the draft’ idea, it just doesn’t happen - it’s not good for either club or the player. But yes we could have done that with BZT, Sav and Sweet and hoped no one took them before us. Down this path we would have kept pick one next year. But may have alienated the managers, players and other clubs. Would have been two years in a row that we didn’t get a deal done (Graham).

Soldo is a solid, average ruck. He is more experienced than Hayes, Danté and Sweet. He can get on the park as compared to Lycett. Sweet could be crap, soldo is at least average. And what it Sweet went down? So yea we needed someone else. Can’t tell you if Flynn or Soldo or whoever is better but we definitely needed someone.

As to Sav and BZT, they are both upgrades on Jonas, McKenzie, Pasini and the young guys. So yea we needed two key backs.

As to not going all in, we went all in with JHF. I don’t think we should have re-signed Hinkley. I don’t think he will win us a flag. But as the club has extended him we need to give him a list that can get a flag.

As to losing Duurs. That’s sad. But means Bergs, Jones, Faz, Burton may get a chance up on the wing.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Dixon should not have got an extension.
Soldo essentially could play the role we had Finlayson playing but better.

That could possibly allow us to rotate Sweet/Dante out of the ruck during the year.

Dante you don't want playing too many games during the year ie. He's a kid you don't load up with too much too soon. A dozen games would be a good effort

The same people that brought Soldo to the club are the same ones that extended Dixon. Sound decision making doesn't seem a strength.

Are you suggesting playing Soldo primarily forward? If you mean replacing Finlayson in the pitch-hitting ruck role, Soldo's athleticism has been reported as a weakness for essentially every Richmond prayer that has visited.

If Visentini is getting a dozen-ish AFL games next year then Sweet is sufficient to cover the rest.