List Mgmt. List Management 2023-24

[Peninsula Boy]

I have no clue how you can assert that picks are "fantastic" and "great value" when they haven't even had a single training session let alone demonstrated compentency at AFL level.

First off, I gotta say my second favourite avatar on BigFooty to Jimmy BC. Great stuff.

Yeah, great value or a value pick is kinda Moneyball talk.

When you talk about trading and drafting but moreso drafting, you can go for BPA, that is, best player available or to fill a need. At the moment, we are at the point where we need to fill needs and shortcomings in the list.

If we take a squizz at our small forwards, we have:

Willie Rioli, genuine small forward, very good - will be 29 next year
Sam Powell-Pepper, not a genuine small forward but playing the role well - 26 next year
Darcy Byrne-Jones, moved from the backline and not a genuine small forward - 28 next year
Jed McEntee, not a genuine small forward, limited skills, 23 next year

I am pretty happy with Rioli and Powell-Pepper but have question marks on the other two.

So the list needs a couple of small forwards.

Because we don't have a lot of draft capital, if we get a couple of young guys with a lot of potential who have the skill sets that we want in our small forwards, it would be considered a value pick or great value. So we did that. We got a couple of really good potential small forwards with a couple of picks in the 3rd Round. Great value.

As for the word fantastic, well, it is a opinion piece and I like to use adjectives. Tom Anastasopoulos has a lot of great skills that will bode well for him to make the team. A fantastic pick. He almost seems overqualified given it cost us a 3rd Rounder. He loves to tackle. Kicks straight. Huge engine. So I'm not saying he is a fantastic player but what we got with the pick, the value itself, is fantastic.

 

[Handyandy]

I don’t see the wings as a problem so long as wines or boak never ever play wing again
Bergman will be a gun wing, Kicked 3 in a qtr of the wing.
Farrell has a lot of improvement left too & a season in defence should improve his game.
Burgoyne, put him on the Italian mama diet
Finlayson might get a look at a new role
Sinn better improve or it’s bust
Jackson, Barkley, Lorenz break glass options

 

[Handyandy]

I am quite optimistic
Biggest x factor for mind is ruck
If soldo or sweet can stay on the park, develop a link with our mids & just break even in taps then jhf, butters, Rozee can eviscerate opponents in a qtr of champagne footy. We saw it a few times mid season when Lycett played some decent footy & glimpses of it later with Hayes giving our mids some ok service.

We were dead last for hit outs but 2nd for clearances, give us a half decent ruck & we could have the best midfield in the afl. If I was soldo or sweet I would be getting a robot chubby thinking about it.

Sure up the defence

Get one of the Speedy forward pocket recruits hand picked by Robbie in the team

Lord to continue his improvement, Marshall to get over his hip/ head, georgi back to ff & it’s a potent forward line

My biggest worry is what to do with the old guys? Hopefully wines can find some form with a preseason, boak? Dbj?
And a small defender?

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

First off, I gotta say my second favourite avatar on BigFooty to Jimmy BC. Great stuff.

Yeah, great value or a value pick is kinda Moneyball talk.

When you talk about trading and drafting but moreso drafting, you can go for BPA, that is, best player available or to fill a need. At the moment, we are at the point where we need to fill needs and shortcomings in the list.

If we take a squizz at our small forwards, we have:

Willie Rioli, genuine small forward, very good - will be 29 next year
Sam Powell-Pepper, not a genuine small forward but playing the role well - 26 next year
Darcy Byrne-Jones, moved from the backline and not a genuine small forward - 28 next year
Jed McEntee, not a genuine small forward, limited skills, 23 next year

I am pretty happy with Rioli and Powell-Pepper but have question marks on the other two.

So the list needs a couple of small forwards.

Because we don't have a lot of draft capital, if we get a couple of young guys with a lot of potential who have the skill sets that we want in our small forwards, it would be considered a value pick or great value. So we did that. We got a couple of really good potential small forwards with a couple of picks in the 3rd Round. Great value.

As for the word fantastic, well, it is a opinion piece and I like to use adjectives. Tom Anastasopoulos has a lot of great skills that will bode well for him to make the team. A fantastic pick. He almost seems overqualified given it cost us a 3rd Rounder. He loves to tackle. Kicks straight. Huge engine. So I'm not saying he is a fantastic player but what we got with the pick, the value itself, is fantastic.

They recruited late in the draft that we traded out of based on needs and we need to see if they can't develop to be AFL standard. Forgive me if I'm not blown away at this masterstroke of list management.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

Walsh could come in handy as another option as kpp - forward or defence - given the current uncertainty about future development of Scully, McCallum and K Marshall

 

[Expat power]

Jones no
Byrne Jones no
Jackson no
Farrell moving to wing might work but he tends to get lost.
Bergman should stay back but probably wont given we dont have many options. He has failed on the wing before and performs his best reading play from behind and intercept marking.

Our wing options are realistically:
Boak, Burgoyne, Lorenz, Sinn, Farrell

None are proven in performing in that role. If anything Burgoyne is probably the most promising wingman in the list and he's a 2nd year stick figure.

We’re a much better team when Bergman is on a wing. Go back and watch round 22 when we beat GWS by 51 points and he kicked three goals in the first quarter.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

We’re a much better team when Bergman is on a wing. Go back and watch round 22 when we beat GWS by 51 points and he kicked three goals in the first quarter.

All year Bergman played pretty amazingly down back and is such a great mark and has that speed to really nail his opponent and did so many times but that first quarter against the Giants was a glimpse into what Bergman could do and it was pretty devastating for the opposition. He almost broke open the game in the first quarter against a very in form side.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I am quite optimistic
Biggest x factor for mind is ruck
If soldo or sweet can stay on the park, develop a link with our mids & just break even in taps then jhf, butters, Rozee can eviscerate opponents in a qtr of champagne footy. We saw it a few times mid season when Lycett played some decent footy & glimpses of it later with Hayes giving our mids some ok service.

We were dead last for hit outs but 2nd for clearances, give us a half decent ruck & we could have the best midfield in the afl. If I was soldo or sweet I would be getting a robot chubby thinking about it.

Sure up the defence

Get one of the Speedy forward pocket recruits hand picked by Robbie in the team

Lord to continue his improvement, Marshall to get over his hip/ head, georgi back to ff & it’s a potent forward line

My biggest worry is what to do with the old guys? Hopefully wines can find some form with a preseason, boak? Dbj?
And a small defender?

Yes, this is pretty much how I see it.

One of the real issues will be Kenny Average trying to plug the old guys, Boak, Dixon, McKenzie and Clurey into the side when they are all close to cooked and we have developing players who could really use those spots. And yes, Byrne-Jones and McEntee as well. Wines is another issue as well.

As we get closer to the season, I'll do a post on it.

 

[JakeNeadeFan]

Our game plan is much more suited to our half backs being influential than it is for our wings to be.

And that is evident by the fact that essentially all the players put on a wing this year have struggled. Duursma, Boak, Wines, Bergman (mostly), Sinn and Burgoyne.

Under that situation I'm not sure that putting Bergman to a wing ends up being a net positive, but I guess we will see.

 

[1954]

Walsh could come in handy as another option as kpp - forward or defence - given the current uncertainty about future development of Scully, McCallum and K Marshall

Agreed re Scully, McCallum and K. Marshall none of whom have shown a lot at sanfl level yet, although I was told by a mate who attends most Maggie's games that there were some good signs from McCallum late in the season.

He is of the opinion the Maggies lack of team defence was a major problem with too many easy goals scored by the oppo often against the trend of play at the time, not helped by the lack of upfield pressure or the loss of form of Jake Pasini, and those factors put the 3 lesser experienced tall defenders under too much pressure.

Early days for Walsh of course, but with his speed particularly for a big bloke, attack on the ball and/or the oppo, there has to be a chance we will see an improvement in which ever end of the ground he lines up in.

 

[yepits2020]

Agreed re Scully, McCallum and K. Marshall none of whom have shown a lot at sanfl level yet, although I was told by a mate who attends most Maggie's games that there were some good signs from McCallum late in the season.

He is of the opinion the Maggies lack of team defence was a major problem with too many easy goals scored by the oppo often against the trend of play at the time, not helped by the lack of upfield pressure or the loss of form of Jake Pasini, and those factors put the 3 lesser experienced tall defenders under too much pressure.

Early days for Walsh of course, but with his speed particularly for a big bloke, attack on the ball and/or the oppo, there has to be a chance we will see an improvement in which ever end of the ground he lines up in.

Kyle Marshall seemed to be overall better than McCallum from about round 16 onwards, although none inspiring. Seemed to dip in performance after his appendix operation. Thought he was running ok till then.

 

[jac147]

Agreed re Scully, McCallum and K. Marshall none of whom have shown a lot at sanfl level yet, although I was told by a mate who attends most Maggie's games that there were some good signs from McCallum late in the season.

He is of the opinion the Maggies lack of team defence was a major problem with too many easy goals scored by the oppo often against the trend of play at the time, not helped by the lack of upfield pressure or the loss of form of Jake Pasini, and those factors put the 3 lesser experienced tall defenders under too much pressure.

Early days for Walsh of course, but with his speed particularly for a big bloke, attack on the ball and/or the oppo, there has to be a chance we will see an improvement in which ever end of the ground he lines up in.

About the trio mentioned in your first paragraph, I would rather use the phrase they showed glimpses of being sanfl players that could jump that hurdle and become afl players.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Lol are we really already talking about uncertainty around 3 x 18 year old first year players in key positions?

As for trading out of this draft, our first round pick (which wound up being 20) helped secure Jason Horne-Francis. I think we can live with that.

Pick 25 blew out to 32 and even by this stage of the draft players were getting picked who were expected to go late if drafted at all.

And we turned 2 x future 4th round picks into 2 x current 3rd round picks. Essentially we turned Duursma into Zerk-Thatcher, Anastasopoulos and Charleson.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Lol are we really already talking about uncertainty around 3 x 18 year old first year players in key positions?

As for trading out of this draft, our first round pick (which wound up being 20) helped secure Jason Horne-Francis. I think we can live with that.

Pick 25 blew out to 32 and even by this stage of the draft players were getting picked who were expected to go late if drafted at all.

And we turned future 4th round picks into current 3rd round picks. Essentially we turned Duursma into Zerk-Thatcher, Anastasopoulos and Charleson.

I didn't find out how we got those 3rd rounders but if we converted next year's 4th Rounders, it is even better work by List Management. Pay it forward but with needs. That's pretty awesome.

 

[Tibbs]

Lol are we really already talking about uncertainty around 3 x 18 year old first year players in key positions?

As for trading out of this draft, our first round pick (which wound up being 20) helped secure Jason Horne-Francis. I think we can live with that.

Pick 25 blew out to 32 and even by this stage of the draft players were getting picked who were expected to go late if drafted at all.

And we turned future 4th round picks into current 3rd round picks. Essentially we turned Duursma into Zerk-Thatcher, Anastasopoulos and Charleson.

I agree, our recruiters are not the problem. They have provided the coaches with what they needed to make a competitive team. It is the poor development form there, weird selections, and the Ken Hinkley factor that has held us back.

I think that we have a well balanced list, with the only need being a cat-B tall to add to our group.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I didn't find out how we got those 3rd rounders but if we converted next year's 4th Rounders, it is even better work by List Management. Pay it forward but with needs. That's pretty awesome.

Even funnier when you realise that in between those 3 picks St Kilda used a future 3rd to trade up.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[raptalia]

I agree, our recruiters are not the problem. They have provided the coaches with what they needed to make a competitive team. It is the poor development form there, weird selections, and the Ken Hinkley factor that has held us back.

I think that we have a well balanced list, with the only need being a cat-B tall to add to our group.

Yes, it is one thing to recruit players with potential but another thing to get them to realise that potential. Considering the hand we had our recruiting staff did a reasonable job it is now up to the Coaching Staff. As I see it Hinkley should have been told he has two years to get the job done.

 

[philthy05]

You've entirely left Xavier Duursma out of this analysis btw. We haven't replaced him with anyone. Better hope Josh Sinn remembers how to play football quickly.

We’ve recently let go of Amon duursma and Bonner. Polec before that. That’s a fair few wingman.

Bergman, Farrell, Byrne-Jones, Jones, Burgoyne, Narkle, Jackson and Sinn all have a chance to replace Duursma on the wing.

I don’t see jones playing wing.

Narkle either. He would be rubbish there. There’s nothing he offers there above other players. We would have better runners, better kicks, better aerial players, better anything. For whatever weakness any of the other options present at least they have a strength to offer. Narkle doesn’t. Probably the worst and last choice for wing imo. Even wines still presents as a better option.

I don’t like Dbj on the wing for his ball use, but at least he’s got the running power and would cover ground. I think our gameplan means our forward entries are rarely going to be players pinpointing targets anyway, so whether it’s a dump it on the boot kicking player, or a better ball user I don’t think there’s going to be as much gap between their kicking in our system anyway.


Bergman
Farrell (.who i think will be preferred back anyway)
Burgoyne
sinn (but can’t see him starting on a wing more a bench / wing rotation)
Boak
Dbj
Jackson (prob bench rotating onto hff / wing)

Lorenz is a long term prospect and he’s way too far off now.

I think we very well might try burgoyne there but for all his agility he’s still not a running line breaking mid. Tends to look sideways a lot annd chip the ball and for a light player who looks like a runner he doesn’t seem to carry the ball half as much as you would think.

That’s almost the worst thing I want in a wingman in our gameplan.

I think with no Bonner, no duursma , and a new top heavy backline that we’re going to strongly favour Farrell there to offset that with his run and kicking, so I’m not sure he’s going to be free to be a full time wing. I think Williams, who I love as a backman might get pushed out of the starting backline (not Farrell) if we’re playing 3 bigs back there and Houston / burton / Farrell / jones to be the first choice defenders as they give a bit more run. Williams to come in when one of those isn’t available, can’t see Williams playing anywhere else. So Farrell prob not a choice for the wing (but in the backline he will find himself up around the wing a lot anyway.

I think they will train and push for sinn to come in and play hbf / wing during the year, though I still think he will be building up that fitness.

Wouldn’t surprise me if boak Dbj Bergman are our wings for much of the year.

Dbj will be pushed out of the forward line, I think we won’t be afraid to pick one of the new small forwards if they’re in ok form. So Dbj will need a new spot, and they’ll give him the wing.

Jones no
Byrne Jones no
Jackson no
Farrell moving to wing might work but he tends to get lost.
Bergman should stay back but probably wont given we dont have many options. He has failed on the wing before and performs his best reading play from behind and intercept marking.

Our wing options are realistically:
Boak, Burgoyne, Lorenz, Sinn, Farrell

None are proven in performing in that role. If anything Burgoyne is probably the most promising wingman in the list and he's a 2nd year stick figure.

I don’t see the wings as a problem so long as wines or boak never ever play wing again
Bergman will be a gun wing, Kicked 3 in a qtr of the wing.
Farrell has a lot of improvement left too & a season in defence should improve his game.
Burgoyne, put him on the Italian mama diet
Finlayson might get a look at a new role
Sinn better improve or it’s bust
Jackson, Barkley, Lorenz break glass options

there’s no way we can pack weight onto burgs. His brother had tissue paper for hamstrings, with his genetics packing weight on quickly will be very risky. It will be a slow burn. Worry about core strength and getting strength into those legs / hips.

And that is evident by the fact that essentially all the players put on a wing this year have struggled. Duursma, Boak, Wines, Bergman (mostly), Sinn and Burgoyne.

Under that situation I'm not sure that putting Bergman to a wing ends up being a net positive, but I guess we will see.

Was noted by duursmas dad i think on radio that our wings play a sacrificial role and xav wasn’t that keen on that.

I reckon we might play bergs there, and I reckon we can expect a up and down year if he does. He will prob go missing 2 weeks and tear a game apart the next playing wing.

However, while I’m not a fan of Dbj and his kicking, I don’t think we’re losing much by playing him on the wing while we play through other players anyway.

The best thing about Bergman would be his threat whenever he drifts forward and the fact he can hoof the ball into f50 from the midfield.

 

[PortVic]

Narkle was playing wing for Essendon VFL last season before we picked him up. Was playing very well by all reports, not sure if that translates to AFL level.

 

[Phar Ted]

Narkle was playing wing for Essendon VFL last season before we picked him up. Was playing very well by all reports, not sure if that translates to AFL level.

I have not seen any AFL traits that Narkle has, appears to be a total waste of a list space.

 

[Phar Ted]

Well thought out argument there JimmyBC

 

[Schulzenfest]

Well thought out argument there JimmyBC

About as well thought as the one he was responding to, yeah.

 

[Phar Ted]

About as well thought as the one he was responding to, yeah.

Good to see that you obviously agree with me

 

[1954]

Narkle would be a chance of getting some time on the wing in 2024, but he gives me the impression he is better suited to that floating half forward type role coming off the interchange bench for the occasional 5 - 10 minute burst.

I have my doubts he runs hard enough to be a permanent wingman at AFL level, and ala season 2023 will play more games for the Maggies than he does for the Power.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

I have not seen any AFL traits that Narkle has, appears to be a total waste of a list space.

Narkle used to live with Esava when they were at Geelong, so he has a purpose. He'd be fine on the wing but I assume he doesn't have the tank. Wings run alot. Bergman would make sense on the wing.