Player Watch Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT?

[Corn Cobbers]

How is that evidence? If Mcrae is persistently overvoting his pet, then there's your difference between Daicos and the Bont right there. I'd agree that they've been 1 and 2 over the last two years, but I'd argue Bont has been better. I think the Players MVP is usually most accurate compared to Coaches or Brownlow.

No 3rd year player has had a record like that, the numbers speak for themselves

 

[jmac70]

We have more important things to focus on like playing finals. I understand that these individual awards is all you have to look forward to this season

Edit, should read playing and losing a final.

 

[RUNVS]

Daicos is second in the comp for centre clearances. You would hope Gulden has more metres gained, rebound 50s, and inside 50s. He plays as an outside receiver far more than Daicos, so (and the stats agree) he kicks the ball much more. Though the difference between score involvement and goal assist is peanuts, I am not sure why you bothered to argue that. The difference is like me saying Daicos kicks more goals—he does, but not by enough to care.

I'm taking the almost double clearance/contested possessions over Gulden's stats every day of the week.

Yes, but Gulden averages more metres gained by a fair amount despite having fewer disposals, and he does have almost double the marks to Daicos, which indicates he works harder to find space rather than just getting the handball receive like Daicos likes to do.

My point is though that no one who is being honest can say Daicos's stats are that much better (if at all) than Gulden's.

 

[jmac70]

No it isn't. If Collingwood fans just settled with "he is a very good player" no one would have a problem with it, but this thread is "Can he be the greatest of all time" which is a completely different and much higher standard. If you set the standard that high then you can criticise a player much more than if you say said player is just a very good player.

He is clearly more than a very good player.

 

[RUNVS]

Edit, should read playing and losing a final.

So who is Collingwood playing next week?

 

[jmac70]

Yes, but Gulden averages more metres gained by a fair amount despite having fewer disposals, and he does have almost double the marks to Daicos, which indicates he works harder to find space rather than just getting the handball receive like Daicos likes to do.

My point is though that no one who is being honest can say Daicos's stats are that much better (if at all) than Gulden's.

It doesn’t indicate he works harder.

 

[RUNVS]

He is clearly more than a very good player.

Excellent player even, but if you have the bar at "can he be the greatest player of all time" then you open up that player to being more heavily scrutinised than if you said he was a very good or even great player.

Daicos is not great defensively, but this would barely get a mention if Collingwood fans were not arguing he could be the greatest player of all time.

 

[RUNVS]

It doesn’t indicate he works harder.

He finds space more than Daicos does, he doesn't rely on his teammates to give him the ball as much.

 

[jmac70]

He finds space more than Daicos does, he doesn't rely on his teammates to give him the ball as much.

Wrong again.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

He finds space more than Daicos does, he doesn't rely on his teammates to give him the ball as much.

So Daics has a tonne more clearances and CPs but relies on his teammates more, think I'm following

 

[jmac70]

So who is Collingwood playing next week?

Um, I think you know the answer.

 

[RUNVS]

Wrong again.

Then where does Daicos get his disposals?

He has 30 disposals a game, 11 from various clearances and 3 from marks, which means 14 disposals.

What about the other 16 disposals, where do they come from?

 

[flyingmagpies]

Yes, but Gulden averages more metres gained by a fair amount despite having fewer disposals, and he does have almost double the marks to Daicos, which indicates he works harder to find space rather than just getting the handball receive like Daicos likes to do.

My point is though that no one who is being honest can say Daicos's stats are that much better (if at all) than Gulden's.

He has four more kicks a game for about 60 metres, which is insignificant and irrelevant. The marks are the same reason he has more kicks than handbells. He's an outside player. Again, I'll take double the clearances and contested possessions (evidence he wins his ball, unlike Gulden?) over a few extra marks/metres every day of the week. Nobody is looking at those stats and can honestly say they'd prefer Gulden. Daicos wins by a landslide in the stats that wins the game.

You're even ignoring the points you're comparing a 4th-year player to a 3rd-year player.

 

[RUNVS]

So Daics has a tonne more clearances and CPs but relies on his teammates more, think I'm following

and despite that, he has basically the same number of tackles as Gulden. Gulden is on the outside more, where it is much harder to get tackles and one percenters, and yet he is even with Daicos there even though those things should be much easier for Daicos given his position.

 

[jmac70]

Then where does Daicos get his disposals?

He has 30 disposals a game, 11 from various clearances and 3 from marks, which means 14 disposals.

What about the other 16 disposals, where do they come from?

All over the place. The kid is an absolute jet.

 

[RUNVS]

He has four more kicks a game for about 60 metres, which is insignificant and irrelevant. The marks are the same reason he has more kicks than handbells. He's an outside player. Again, I'll take double the clearances and contested possessions (evidence he wins his ball, unlike Gulden?) over a few extra marks/metres every day of the week. Nobody is looking at those stats and can honestly say they'd prefer Gulden. Daicos wins by a landslide in the stats that wins the game.

You're even ignoring the points you're comparing a 4th-year player to a 3rd-year player.

Score involvements is a very liberal stat that in many ways should favour the inside mid and yet Gulden is beating him at it.

 

[RUNVS]

Also Gulden is clearly the best winger in the competition. Daicos is not the best in and under clearance player. Gulden is the best player for his position in 2024, Daicos is not.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

and despite that, he has basically the same number of tackles as Gulden. Gulden is on the outside more, where it is much harder to get tackles and one percenters, and yet he is even with Daicos there even though those things should be much easier for Daicos given his position.

Oh tackles now huh?

4th in CPs, 3rd in clearances, 2nd in centre clearances

Plus a massive highlights package

Elite inside mid winning his own ball

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

The 5 votes (BOG) he got from Macrae in round 21 makes the whole award a farce.

Agree. He should have gotten 6-10 votes for that game. Won the game in the first half. I guess Crazy Vossy forgot about that.

 

[RUNVS]

Elite inside mid winning his own ball

Yes, and according to Champion Data butchering said ball.

They said just last week his disposal at the clearances were not good enough to be in the AA team, which is likely one of the reasons he got shoehorned into a position he did not play in during the season. The AA selectors judged Cripps and Serong as better in that position.

 

[jmac70]

Also Gulden is clearly the best winger in the competition. Daicos is not the best in and under clearance player. Gulden is the best player for his position in 2024, Daicos is not.

Take a step back and ask yourself what you are actually arguing about.

Daicos is clearly tracking towards being a generational talent.

 

[nahnah]

full nuff mode activated from the gulden fan boy

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Yes, and according to Champion Data butchering said ball.

They said just last week his disposal at the clearances were not good enough to be in the AA team, which is likely one of the reasons he got shoehorned into a position he did not play in during the season. The AA selectors judged Cripps and Serong as better in that position.

Doubt they judged Cripps and Serong better. I feel they judged Nick better as an outside player. If the all Australian selectors had to pick players in their position, Nick would have been in the guts and Serong probably would have been on the bench.

 

[sr36]

Knock-ons, spoils, smothers, and shepherds, all of which are things that soft players would not get too involved in, and yet despite playing more on the outside where those things would be harder to do, Gulden got more of them than Daicos.

Spoils: numbers are greatly impacted by role - if you are ahead, behind or wide of the ball - you're more likely to be involved in marking contests. If your job is to fly in packs (not relevant for either) you should get a fair few more. Nick isn't in many marking contests at all.

Knock ons - you're not taking possession under pressure but instead knocking it towards a teammate - might be team tactics, creativity or actually softness and not taking the ball under pressure that results in a higher number

Shepherds - most players don't shepherd anymore - they're coached to peel away to create an option. We sure as hell wouldn't want Nick shepherding instead of peeling off to receive - same with Gulden.

Smothers: they involve courage and desperation - so that type would fit the bill.

Overall, a terrible measure of being soft or not.

 

[sr36]

Yes, and according to Champion Data butchering said ball.

They said just last week his disposal at the clearances were not good enough to be in the AA team, which is likely one of the reasons he got shoehorned into a position he did not play in during the season. The AA selectors judged Cripps and Serong as better in that position.

More likely they wanted to pick all of Cripps, Serong, Heeney, Warner and Daicos on the field to recognise excellent years from them all. And you couldn't pick Serong or Cripps on a wing or flank as they're outside games aren't at that level - so they put Heeney, Warner and Daicos there - and the two with outstanding inside games but not as much outside polish were put in the guts.