Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Sydney

[shooshka]

See, the thing about Williams, is that i think we have now set the bar really low for him, that when he literally does anything, it's good enough


Let's be honest. Ladhams is a total hack normally. He's not a good ruckman at all, and yet he was easily the best on the ground tonight. Bailey made him look like Simon Madden FFS. 24 disposals, 5 clearances, 24 hitouts, 2 tackles and a goal.

Can you imagine if Hickey was actually playing? Or any first string ruckman? He'd have given Bailey the full run around.


Hats off to the big fella for scrapping his way in the second half and hitting the scoreboard. But for a second round draft pick who was supposed to be this talented freak with his jump and athleticism going into his 4th season etc etc.... he's fairly average.


Bailey finishing with 11 disposals, 7 contested, 3 clearances, 2 marks, 2 tackles and a goal doesn't sound terrible technically... but then he only got 15 hitouts. FIFTEEN. And 7 clangers. Against a FWD/RCK part timer like Ladhams FFS. What happened to him having a bigger leap than Naitanui????


I mean gee whiz. If we think this bloke can even remotely lead our ruck division whilst Naitanui is out, we've got another thing coming. Strnadica needs to play. Huge is a perfect 2nd ruckman, he stays. But you can't keep Williams in after a whole 15 hitouts. Even Huge had 11 himself.





Wasn't remotely our worst player, but if you're asking who takes #1 ruck spot next week, i'd give it to Strnadica. Williams is too undersized.

It's about a bit of physicality too.

At this stage Williams just doesn't make the opposition ruck work hard enough in the contest.

I think the main issue is he's coached by Nic and has some similar athletic traits, so the emphasis is on attacking competence.

But AFL rucks, even 2nd/3rd stringers like Ladhams, are able to serve it up un a platter when a young ruck is out positioned. Attacking all the time makes this happen more often, having any sort of defensive mindset allows the undersized or undereducated player to influence (not dictate, but influence) the positioning of the ball.

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[Flarn Rarn]

I don't want to come onto your board and rub salt into the wound but I want to dispute this a bit. I mean in the last 4 or 5 years Sydney have drafted McCartin, Warner, McInerney, Florent, Rowbottom, Hayward and McLean from picks outside the top 10, often well outside the top 10, and academy guys like Gulden were drafted with picks in the 30's meaning every team passed over him twice.

Yes the academy helped but ultimately the players that helped were Mills, Heeney, Blakey and Campbell, which is a minority of our team. Without the great recruiting of te above listed players (players every team had access to) we would be nowhere.

You have a funny way of showing it.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

I don't want to come onto your board and rub salt into the wound but I want to dispute this a bit. I mean in the last 4 or 5 years Sydney have drafted McCartin, Warner, McInerney, Florent, Rowbottom, Hayward and McLean from picks outside the top 10, often well outside the top 10, and academy guys like Gulden were drafted with picks in the 30's meaning every team passed over him twice.

Yes the academy helped but ultimately the players that helped were Mills, Heeney, Blakey and Campbell, which is a minority of our team. Without the great recruiting of te above listed players (players every team had access to) we would be nowhere.

The academy may help but from what I see it’s moreso the standards players are held to and the willingness and ability to develop youth into genuine players that sets Sydney apart. This just doesn’t really seem to exist at West Coast at the moment.

Sydney are a genuinely professional outfit whereas we are a rabble at the moment and have been for the better part of 2 years.

 

[Goroyals22]

Yeo is a critical player for us and deserves the right to come back into the team after one week in the WAFL. We saw at the end of last year when he was getting back to his old self the difference he makes around the contest.
Kelly has been our most consistent midfielder for the last 18mo. Covid/Injury just came the wrong time for him. Has to come straight back in. Kelly gets a bad wrap on this thread.
I was dissapointed to see O'Neill dropped after his best game though.

Why does Yeo have a right to come in after 70 mins in the wafl??? Even last week he said he wasn’t ready for a recall but oh no credits in the bank.. he basically has missed half the past two years injured so its not recent performances…
No one has a right to play, it should be earned… not at the boys club though it seems.
How much worse than no score in a game to almost half time would last weeks teams minus the 4 forced changes had gone than that??
The previous 4 games( maybe the limp wristed derby aside) have been enjoyable because we didnt know who was playing and had no expectations.. it was fun even if we lost to see development.. I could watch a whole season of that…after 1 game with the so called stars back I wish the season was over.. i watched this movie last year and it was horrid and the sequel is worse.

 

[Chump Change]

A lot of people not seeing the big picture here...

Negatives

• After the failed 2019 campaign, Simmo didn't see the need to change the game plan
• After the failure to change the game plan in 2020, the club didn't sack him
• We had a 3 year window 2019-2021 to win another flag. We weren't in the ball park
• We traded in Kelly and coughed up our future. A reasonable gamble at the time but it didn't work

The Reality

• The negatives are done and dusted. Nothing we can do about it
• Whether we changed game plans or not, we were always heading for a rebuild in 2022/2023

The positives

• There is unlikely to be a prolonged 5-6 seasons of being in denial that a rebuild is needed (many clubs do this)
• We won a flag. Many teams get to the premiership window and don't win one (St Kilda, Giants, Freo etc)
• We're probably going to get a top 4 pick. If we can nab a Bont, Dusty, Danger type player, we're in business

People are losing their sh!t over 1 game of footy. Where did you all think this was heading over the last two seasons?

 

[Tyberious Funk]

For everyone having a dig at the players...

How many of them are recovering from COVID? The club has been coy about who's been through the protocols because they were close contacts vs actually being infected.

I reckon this one sits pretty squarely with the match committee for selecting unfit players. "Better for the run" is a load of horseshit. They could have got a good run in the WAFL, we could have played the kids in the seniors... still would have lost... but at least we would have given some youngs guys more experience at the highest level.

I just don't understand the logic that if Yeo can only manage 70 minutes at WAFL level that he's ready to play a full game at AFL level. It's utter madness.

 

[Chump Change]

For everyone having a dig at the players...

How many of them are recovering from COVID? The club has been coy about who's been through the protocols because they were close contacts vs actually being infected.

I reckon this one sits pretty squarely with the match committee for selecting unfit players. "Better for the run" is a load of horseshit. They could have got a good run in the WAFL, we could have played the kids in the seniors... still would have lost... but at least we would have given some youngs guys more experience at the highest level.

I just don't understand the logic that if Yeo can only manage 70 minutes at WAFL level that he's ready to play a full game at AFL level. It's utter madness.

But we still would have lost the game and we're still going to be bottom 4. So why are we getting all hot and bothered about it?

 

[W.C. Fry]

Negative.
Lost our last 5 games at Optus Stadium.
With games against Tigers, Demons, Dogs, Cats, Bombers, Carlton, Saints, Crows then Freo coming up at Optus seriously the only winnable game is probably the Crows. That's likely a disgusting home losing streak, surely we have never come close to that before?

Positive
Might upgrade seats at the end of the year after the bandwagon empties.

 

[Spooky17]

I find this thread therapeutic in a way, sharing our frustrations and knowing others are going through the same thing.

All I want to see this year is effort and change, I can deal with losses.

It’s going to be a long season, and I’ll be looking out for any positives. Naish for example, has been one.

 

[amazingjoshy]

But we still would have lost the game and we're still going to be bottom 4. So why are we getting all hot and bothered about it?

Because the younger guys that got shunted out of the team would have at least looked like they were having a crack, not rolling out the white flag 1 min into the first qtr

 

[Biggie]

But we still would have lost the game and we're still going to be bottom 4. So why are we getting all hot and bothered about it?

Hey bud

Firstly- Welcome to the board!

Secondly, a tip - let the natives vent about one game or multiple games.

It’s why this place pretty much exists.

Enjoy your stay! Hopefully you don’t end up like me and over stay

 

[Astro7]

There are things you know are happening at the club.
There are things you think you know are happening at the club.
There are things you dont know are happening at the club.
There are things you dont know that you know and things you know you dont know,
and then there's " Simmo's post game presser.."

 

[Kegs15]

Was sitting on the wing at the game watching Naish absolutely bust his gut running to create, to take the game on, to make quality leads for his teammates. The rest of the side was offering the least movement/options I've ever seen them, even Jetta would have struggled to hit up good
targets. Meant Naish wasn't super effective but honestly don't give two shits, he was playing positive football unlike all bar Duggan and Barrass.

Another takeaway was that players like Dixon aren't always going to win the contest, but when he loses he's so good at losing it 40-60 if that makes sense? Always gets a hand in or a nudge or a grip on that means even when he's beat his opponent isn't getting an easy posession. Compare that to say Darling, who when he doesn't win a contest is out of it 0-100, he's wasted that split second being shocked he's lost out or flapping his arms at the umpire, and rather than get a hand on immediately wants to turn around like a truck and try for the hero rundown tackle.

He's the one who annoyed me the most but similar comparisons could be made from O'Neill/Kelly, Petrevski Seton/Cripps etc where I feel like the seniors are trying to always do the sexy thing and banking on an amazing clearance or a brilliant pickup and not keeping their feet or an eye on their opponent for scenario B where they're forced to get a little arm in and do something 'boring'. Last week our footy wasn't the sexiest but we let our opponents get away with less and probably advanced it just as well cause we weren't trying to champagne it.

Petracca is a great one to watch for this, he's got the sexiest plan A in a contest of anyone going round at the moment but he's still always on the lookout for a little nudge, a little tap on the ball to disrupt clean opposition posession, a little effort to keep his feet and get in the way of someone's run. Hopefully it's just fitness with our senior players but I worry it's equal parts bathwater drinking and coaching.

 

[Chump Change]

Because the younger guys that got shunted out of the team would have at least looked like they were having a crack, not rolling out the white flag 1 min into the first qtr

I guess I have different priorities than you. And no - I wouldn't have brought all those players in at once either. But in the big scheme of things I find it unimportant.

 

[Obeanie1]

A lot of people not seeing the big picture here...

Negatives

• After the failed 2019 campaign, Simmo didn't see the need to change the game plan
• After the failure to change the game plan in 2020, the club didn't sack him
• We had a 3 year window 2019-2021 to win another flag. We weren't in the ball park
• We traded in Kelly and coughed up our future. A reasonable gamble at the time but it didn't work

The Reality

• The negatives are done and dusted. Nothing we can do about it
• Whether we changed game plans or not, we were always heading for a rebuild in 2022/2023

The positives

• There is unlikely to be a prolonged 5-6 seasons of being in denial that a rebuild is needed (many clubs do this)
• We won a flag. Many teams get to the premiership window and don't win one (St Kilda, Giants, Freo etc)
• We're probably going to get a top 4 pick. If we can nab a Bont, Dusty, Danger type player, we're in business

People are losing their sh!t over 1 game of footy. Where did you all think this was heading over the last two seasons?

One single draft pick used on one mid wont mean we're in buisness.

Far, far from it. You are dreaming if you think that.

 

[Obeanie1]

Positive

We are starting to find out who wants to reaaly play football and who are sitting on their big contracts chewing the fat.

Negatives

Its a young mans game and too many established stars are getting shown up by youth who are hungry.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

But we still would have lost the game and we're still going to be bottom 4. So why are we getting all hot and bothered about it?

Because if we accept the need to rebuild, what is the value in fast-tracking a 31 year old with dodgy hammies, who is coming off COVID? Alternatively, we could have got development time into some younger players, let Shuey (and others) build fitness at WAFL level... AND send a message that hard work and effort gets rewards and that NO player, even the captain, is beyond playing WAFL.

We lost the game and gained NOTHING in return.

 

[RookiePick]

Good post, yet the one person who has implemented and still runs it all you want to continue.
If you are going to clean out then the coach is very very important that it is changed.

I didn't bother because we are relying on Simpson waking up and/or walking.

The club won't axe him because of the cashola... 2 more years to run. Jesus wept.

 

[Chump Change]

One single draft pick used on one mid wont mean we're in buisness.

Far, far from it. You are dreaming if you think that.

That's if your definition of business is top 4. My definition of business is building the next team to win a flag. A Sam Walsh type player makes a huge difference.

 

[Chump Change]

Because if we accept the need to rebuild, what is the value in fast-tracking a 31 year old with dodgy hammies, who is coming off COVID? Alternatively, we could have got development time into some younger players, let Shuey (and others) build fitness at WAFL level... AND send a message that hard work and effort gets rewards and that NO player, even the captain, is beyond playing WAFL.

We lost the game and gained NOTHING in return.

I don't know about Simmo, but I accept the need to rebuild. Personally I wouldn't have played those 3 players. I also think Simmo is short sighted and in denial. But who are the young players you are talking about?

I basically agree with your sentiment, except for how important it is. It's not a make or break issue for me. The make or break issue was 2-3 seasons ago when either Simmo should have changed how he plays or the board should have sacked him. Now it's sort of too little, too late, and we have to rebuild - but with who? Foley? Edwards? Rotham? West?

Hough and Dixon look okay, but I don't see any major upside in playing Hough on the weekend over Yeo. It's just inconsequential at this point in time.

 

[Godfather32]

I didn't bother because we are relying on Simpson waking up and/or walking.

The club won't axe him because of the cashola... 2 more years to run. Jesus wept.

Surely someone else will take him and his fat contract off our hands?
There's so many options out there, Westpac, Bendigo, Commonwealth, Bank West, NAB, St George, hell you've even got smaller players like Police and Nurses.

 

[boondy]

Too many unfit players .
Of course a team that runs and spreads will murder us .

 

[Coasters7]

Look, I’m not gunna read 6 pages of negatives, cause I’m negative enough, so I don’t know if this is has been covered, but f**k me, something has to be done about the dropping the ball/incorrect disposal/blatant throws.

It’s been happening for years, across many teams, and it’s a blight on the game and the fault of the administrators and law makers and those who instruct the umpires.

So many times tonight, the Swans just flat out threw the ball, with an umpire right there, and it doesn’t get paid.

No way in hell do we win that game, but we’d be slightly more competitive if some of those blatant throws get called before the ball flies into the swans forward 50 for the 60th time. It’s absolutely infuriating, and makes me hate the game even more these days than I already do.

I pretty much watch the eagles games when I go to the game, and that’s it. I hardly watch away games cause the commentary is putrid and I get way too pissed off with everything, and I never watch any other games cause the state of the game is terrible and it’s been completely ruined.

I’ve gone full old man yells at cloud, but I’m fed up with this blatant cheating and the game is a shadow of what it used to be in the days I was a kid (the 90s) when I lived and breathed AFL. Maybe I’ve grown up, but it’s sad that I’m on the verge of giving it away all together and just focussing on other sports.

Makes it so much easier to just shovel it out of a stoppage and maul it forward too. We’ve never played like that so while our blokes are busy actually trying to take possession of the ball and handball it out, the Swans players were just pushing it out the front of the stoppage in numbers without ever picking the ball up until they found an outnumber and were able to get it out to runners.

The amount of times a Sydney player would deliberately choose not to take possession was infuriating. Feign like you’re going to pick up the ball then just let it go and throw your arms up the instant you feel heat behind you. It’s just not footy

Only way to counter it is to start doing it yourself but 100% we’d be the team pinged and scapegoated for the bullshit (see Cripps’ throw last year) and I would never want to be proud of my side playing that way anyway

 

[WCErevival]

I feel like with everything thats gone on the last couple of years, Simmo just wants a couple of weeks of all our 'stars' fit just to see what the team can do. I dont think we've ever had a fully fit yeo, shuey, kelly, nic, gov etc playing together.

Unfortunately I think that time has gone now and he has to accept we need to inject some youth to keep things progressing.

 

[KERRPOW]

The biggest negative is letting emotion getting the better of me and changing my tip to these bunch of khents.