Review R17: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. Brisbane Lions

[CrowBloke]

EMPLOYING A HEAD COACH WHO COMPLETELY IGNORES A DUAL BROWNLOW MEDALLIST FOR AN ENTIRE HALF AND WATCHES HIM RACK UP 23 and 3 BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. THAT WAS “PLAN A” YOU SEE.

Wow, helluva rant; I thought I was pissed off.

Like you, I'm most annoyed by the quote above. It's on Nicks and nobody within the Club's inner sanctum can see it.
I imagine it went down like this; somebody asked on selection night:
"What shall we do about Neale? Wanna tag him, Nicksy?".
Nicks: "Nah, we'll be right. The boys are so well-coached by me that all they have to do is play how I've told them to and Neale won'e be a problem. I'm backing the boys in, especially now that our big-future-man-and-Leader Smithers is back".

23 touches and 3 goals later ... , Nicks, lost, in Coaches' box:
"Think we should do anything about Neale, fellas?".

 

[Hodgy]

Don’t think I’ve ever suffered from herd mentality.

Yes I do. He’s had some howlers this year and you’ve got to ask yourself, knowing everything you know about Nicks and his love of experience, why was Smith named sub and dropped for 2 games? Why did Smith come out and do media answering questions on how bad he was playing?

Forget his 22 touches today where there were a few kick ins, he made some poor choices. I think it was the 2nd qtr, wasn’t it his hacked panic kick that went 40 out from goal dead in front that Neale marked and goaled?

Of course he’s had some howlers this year, he did in 2017 as well. In fact show me a player that hasn’t. I’m fascinated about your comment about Knicks btw, as everyone I talk too has him as a “George Pell”. Ie loves the kids. He certainly seems to love McHenry.

We must have easily the most kids in the side and the least senior players in the comp. Smith would have been a kid in Geelong’s premiership 2 years ago.

And that Neale mark was contested against two 6 foot plus key backs in our side, are you really blaming Smith. This is the problem as I see it, it’s easy to find examples of players you hate stuffing up, just ignore the 21 times they didn’t. Sure sounds like heard mentality to me.

 

[George Kramer]

Of course he’s had some howlers this year, he did in 2017 as well. In fact show me a player that hasn’t. I’m fascinated about your comment about Knicks btw, as everyone I talk too has him as a “George Pell”. Ie loves the kids. He certainly seems to love McHenry.

We must have easily the most kids in the side and the least senior players in the comp. Smith would have been a kid in Geelong’s premiership 2 years ago.

And that Neale mark was contested against two 6 foot plus key backs in our side, are you really blaming Smith. This is the problem as I see it, it’s easy to find examples of players you hate stuffing up, just ignore the 21 times they didn’t. Sure sounds like heard mentality to me.

I don’t know who you’re talking to, must be an odd crowd.

Nick’s chooses basically any experienced player he can, remember subbing Nank for Smith after Nanks strong game in the Showdown?

Geelong had good experienced players, I’ve explained the difference.

Those 2 6 foot plus key backs were Rachelle and Rankine, so yeah I’m blaming Smith. I’ve given you one example of where his experience meant nothing, there were others and that’s the point, if he’s making rookie errors his experience is pointless, overrated and unneeded.

And you can shove your herd mentality up your arse.

 

[Trigger13]

Brisbane were very poor today.

All I see when I watch us play now is a bog average list of triers.

We are going nowhere fast. Get used to it.

 

[Interloperer]

remember subbing Nank for Smith after Nanks strong game in the Showdown?

No. Because Curtin (played OK after a nervy start) was subbed off for Smith (ineffective) in that game.

Next round, vs Brisbane, Nankervis (poor but arguably out of position if we're generous) came on at half time for Curtin (bottom 1% of all time crows games).

 

[Hodgy]

Now you're just trolling. We picked Patrick Dangerfield with a first round pick and there was a period he was the best player in the game.

I showed stats that support my argument from that very source so unless you are looking only at the disposals column, you're just flat out wrong that nothing in there shows he has declined

Going by your stats.

DE% ‘23 - 76.8% Vs carer 75.2%
R50’s ‘23 - 4.9 Vs carer 4.1
I50’s ‘23 - 3.5 Vs career 3.3
Kicking ‘23 - 73.7% Vs career 70%
Meters gained ‘23 - 518 Vs career 488

And you’re accusing me of trolling. I see you had to go back 14 years to find a better 1st rounder, but sorry he left. Smith didn’t. Danger, Smith, Lever and Davis are our only real successes in the 1st round, and only 1 played his whole career here. QED.

 

[bonehilda]

I’m fascinated about your comment about Knicks btw, as everyone I talk too has him as a “George Pell”. Ie loves the kids. He certainly seems to love McHenry.

???
Weird f*cking comment

And you’re just plain wrong about Smith. So is Nicks though, so you’re not alone

 

[George Kramer]

No. Because Curtin (played OK after a nervy start) was subbed off for Smith (ineffective) in that game.

Next round, vs Brisbane, Nankervis (poor but arguably out of position if we're generous) came on at half time for Curtin (bottom 1% of all time crows games).

I meant Nank started sub against Brisbane after a strong game against Port. Smiths contribution against Port when he came on was 2 kick ins and he replaced Smith in the 22.

 

[50BC]

Work rate, size, winning first possession, get to the ball on the outside, can create scores. Unlikely many on our list he has AFL attributes. Decision making needs to be a little quicker sometimes, hopefully that comes in time as he gets used to the speed of the game.

Like Dawson we are throwing him around non stop. Mid, Wing, and in previous weeks HF and HB. He is a far better prospect than Berry and Shoenberg. It was a rough day for him, gave away 5 frees but also set up a few goals and lead the team for contested touches. He must be given every opportunity for the ROS.

Yeah he is definitely worth persisting with. Definite potential, I'd like to see him get some regular midfield time.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Ugly: Laird yelling at the young blokes at every opportunity. Get rid of him.

I had to smile when soligo spoke to him about running past on the outer wing which resulted in oob after they messed it up.

However, if Laird had any notion of attack, he would have run past soligo to receive the handball... like everyone in the AFL does. I saw it as lazy and/or not understanding overlap running.

Anyway, Jake let him know he was unimpressed.

 

[cmndstab]

We must have easily the most kids in the side and the least senior players in the comp. Smith would have been a kid in Geelong’s premiership 2 years ago.

The problem with this argument is that it hasn't come about because Nicks has prioritised playing young players. It's come about by necessity. There are no senior players being kept out of the side - we are playing all of them. We just don't have many of them left, because the previous ones all either left or retired.

It's a little disingenuous to laud Nicks for picking such an inexperienced side, when the main reason our side is so inexperienced is because Nicks has consistently picked every single senior player available, depriving the next generation of players of games. The likes of Nankervis, Cook, Taylor and Dowling should collectively have 50 more games under their belts already than they do.

Which senior players has Nicks opted to leave out of the side for more than the occasional match over the last few years? The only one of note was Crouch, which as we've since seen was probably the wrong choice anyway. Outside of him, the next one is 23 year old McHenry, and even then it's only been the last six weeks or so.


The only constant feature of Nicks' tenure has been a steadfast, almost religious adherence to selecting every experienced player available, regardless of form, and regardless of whether it hampers our development.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Ok: Murphys job on Neale, actually a proactive move.

Ugly: The boffins we call coaches leaving it until Neale had won the game off his own boot before making the move.

And then Nicks needing to explain at half time that he was experimenting more in the second half.

It seems his critics have been somewhat successful in getting their message through the triple plutonium fortress soundproof glazing of crows HQ.

 

[Hodgy]

I don’t know who you’re talking to, must be an odd crowd.

Nick’s chooses basically any experienced player he can, remember subbing Nank for Smith after Nanks strong game in the Showdown?

Geelong had good experienced players, I’ve explained the difference.

Those 2 6 foot plus key backs were Rachelle and Rankine, so yeah I’m blaming Smith. I’ve given you one example of where his experience meant nothing, there were others and that’s the point, if he’s making rookie errors his experience is pointless, overrated and unneeded.

And you can shove your herd mentality up your arse.

We have easily the least experienced players in our side in the comp, only 2 really and it clearly costs us in close games. Your exclamation that other sides vets are good but ours aren’t, despite the stats showing clearly the opposite, is the perfect example of group mentality really.

BTW It was Nankervis that did that kick, but don’t let facts get in the way of your rant, sounds better to accuse Smith obviously.

And the word is heard.

 

[Gtowncrow]

They don't know anything about football, super uneducated supporters. Wouldn't let it worry me.

They even cheered when Andrews made his two "tries".

 

[Hodgy]

The problem with this argument is that it hasn't come about because Nicks has prioritised playing young players. It's come about by necessity. There are no senior players being kept out of the side - we are playing all of them. We just don't have many of them left, because the previous ones all either left or retired.

It's a little disingenuous to laud Nicks for picking such an inexperienced side, when the main reason our side is so inexperienced is because Nicks has consistently picked every single senior player available, depriving the next generation of players of games. The likes of Nankervis, Cook, Taylor and Dowling should collectively have 50 more games under their belts already than they do.

Which senior players has Nicks opted to leave out of the side for more than the occasional match over the last few years? The only one of note was Crouch, which as we've since seen was probably the wrong choice anyway. Outside of him, the next one is 23 year old McHenry, and even then it's only been the last six weeks or so.


The only constant feature of Nicks' tenure has been a steadfast, almost religious adherence to selecting every experienced player available, regardless of form, and regardless of whether it hampers our development.

I don’t disagree with this, and I certainly aren’t lauding Nicks in picking this side, far from it. I’m just saying that the list that has been put together by Reid and Hamish is so poor that I don’t think anyone could seriously judge Nickas as a Coach. And if I was him I would be picking Walker and Smith also.

And no one could honestly say Dowling and Nankervis were ready before they were picked, and Taylor spent last year injured. He has given Cook a great run considering his output at both levels if your fair.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Kane is Russian roulette, always runs off his man to intercept and if he doesn’t, his man has a free hit. He’s frustrating and hard to watch. I’d trade him for a second rounder because once Worrell comes back, there won’t be room for him. Smart clubs trade players like this and improve their list.



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I'm keeping him. Butts is the KPD who is first out IMO.

That said, it was Murray as the weakest link today of the three of them.

 

[Scorpus]

Going by your stats.

DE% ‘23 - 76.8% Vs carer 75.2%
R50’s ‘23 - 4.9 Vs carer 4.1
I50’s ‘23 - 3.5 Vs career 3.3
Kicking ‘23 - 73.7% Vs career 70%
Meters gained ‘23 - 518 Vs career 488

And you’re accusing me of trolling. I see you had to go back 14 years to find a better 1st rounder, but sorry he left. Smith didn’t. Danger, Smith, Lever and Davis are our only real successes in the 1st round, and only 1 played his whole career here. QED.

So if nothing I said was true, it wasn't the quality of his contributions falling away, and Smith actually was performing about as well as usual, why did Nicks drop him?

Had 20 touches against Richmond before he was dropped. 4 rebounds, 2 inside 50s. 455 metres gained. 85% DE. Looks okay on the stat sheet. Yet Nicks swung the axe. Found himself playing 2 SANFL games even.

Why would Nicks drop him when, by those stats, he did his usual?

 

[Gtowncrow]

The worst one I saw was Dawson getting pushed (in the back) by a Brisbane player into daniher. Daniher wasnt hit high, in the back or front on by Dawson…. Daniher collapsed and got a free kick.


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Big Joe looks like the type of guy who might struggle to find friends in the locker room.

Just my hunch based on what we see on field. Attitude...

 

[50BC]

2 quarters in 3 seasons, in a team that's meant to be rebuilding.

How the f can Nicks do that?
[/QUOTE]
2 games as a sub is no way to bring a new player , I'm dead against that. But I'm not sure he was ready much earlier than now to get selected. He must have been getting close by end of first season, but then was injured most of second season and his sanfl form early this year was very inconsistent.

 

[SellarStardom]

Just watched the replay.

The back line was solid, but we need another solid HB, that use to be Smith but isnt anymore. Dawson and Hinge back there ate great but we need another hard, quick and clean player. This would allow Dawson and Hinge to play mote midfield. Hope that Bond can come on and release Muchelanney from lock down role, or/and Ryan keeps coming.

Berry was a solid workhorse whilst Soligo was ok and Dowling showed a bit. Liked Cook on the wing

Laird and Smith....blaaaa
Murphy real bad until played on Neale, but reckon Dowling could have done that.

Tex and FOG were OK long with Berg. Rankine and Rachelle were both just OK, Rachelle bordering on poor. We really need a Welsh to give a medium marking option.

 

[Gtowncrow]

So if nothing I said was true, it wasn't the quality of his contributions falling away, and Smith actually was performing about as well as usual, why did Nicks drop him?

Had 20 touches against Richmond before he was dropped. 4 rebounds, 2 inside 50s. 455 metres gained. 85% DE. Looks okay on the stat sheet. Yet Nicks swung the axe. Found himself playing 2 SANFL games even.

Why would Nicks drop him when, by those stats, he did his usual?

Because not everything football can be explained or justified quantitatively. Nicks, like all of us only need to watch what his numbers resulted in for the team. Clangers, bad decisions, skill errors and lack of awareness, speed and composure are mostly a qualitative assessment. The guy isn't even able to carry out the game plan. Just bombs away...to the right.

I don't want to bag him. He's been a loyal servant to the club. But it's time. Just watch him.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

I don’t disagree with this, and I certainly aren’t lauding Nicks in picking this side, far from it. I’m just saying that the list that has been put together by Reid and Hamish is so poor that I don’t think anyone could seriously judge Nickas as a Coach. And if I was him I would be picking Walker and Smith also.

And no one could honestly say Dowling and Nankervis were ready before they were picked, and Taylor spent last year injured. He has given Cook a great run considering his output at both levels if your fair.

I agree the list management is atricous, but players cement their spots after injury opportunity, its been happening for years. Crouch last year when Laird missed, Dowling in when Crouch went out, Worrell once Doedee went down, Nank with Milera out. And then positional stuff - Soligo goes inside after training wing due to media critisism, Dawson tells the coach stop playing me down back, Jones now lost his wing role to dowling after his injury. Hinge down back after Dawson moved out of def. The coaches have a crap read on the list.

 

[Hodgy]

So if nothing I said was true, it wasn't the quality of his contributions falling away, and Smith actually was performing about as well as usual, why did Nicks drop him?

Had 20 touches against Richmond before he was dropped. 4 rebounds, 2 inside 50s. 455 metres gained. 85% DE. Looks okay on the stat sheet. Yet Nicks swung the axe. Found himself playing 2 SANFL games even.

Why would Nicks drop him when, by those stats, he did his usual?

Trouble is you used stats to refute my argument, I then used those same stats to rebut and so you backtrack and use what Nicks has done as your fall back. This is the same Nicks you are criticizing in the same breath for picking Smith in the first place. Which is it? Is he right for picking him or for dropping him. Seriously, has there ever been a club great who is still averaging 20 posies off half back at 32 been the subject of so much ridiculous supporter crap.

Playing Smith has not caused us any loses this year, and has probably helped the development of Nankervis and Michalaney no end. It’s like saying North playing Ziebell for the last 2 years was a mistake. You can never know what good he did in the development of all their kids.

 

[BRL121]

Even if this game costs Rankine a week or two, this is probably the highlight of our season right here:

Shouldn't he be cited for an attempted elbow to the head? Whatever happened to the potential to cause injury?

 

[BRL121]

Hinge was injured. Hobbled from ground at games end. Groin apparently.

He had ice on his lower leg, didn't he