Richmond - time for a rebuild?

[JackOutback]

I actually don't see it quite that way.
Sure we had a horrid year, but we had some really good excuses.

We had 4 to 6 VFL players left on our list for half a season almost. 5 ACL's is unheard of. Our entire midfield gone.
We had players like Martin running around far, far off his best and not really helping the side. Bolton and Baker were sort of gone already and were nowhere near their best. A new coach etc.

Our fully fit side is not devoid of talent. Vlastuin, Prestia, Taranto, Hopper, Short, Lynch, Balta, Nankervis and Broad are good to very good players. Players like Ross, Mansell, Ralphsmith, Brown, Miller, Rioli Jnr have shown they can play at the level. A lot of new faces got a go last year and at times looked good, Campbell, Banks, Trezise, McAuliffe, Lefau, Bauer, Blight, Green etc.

Lalor and Smillie are already our biggest mids, so physically ready to go. Not expecting too much but they will impact, no.1 picks usually do. Gibcus has shown he can play and will be back in training soon. 6 other 30 odd draftees will get games at times, but we will not be relying on them this year.

Injuries will make a difference. Lynch is in full training and has done a full preseason, his first in 3 seasons.
I don't expect us to rise much, but I think we will be a fair bit better than last season. No injuries at all apart from the rehab of the ACL, so a full list to choose from rd.1 (with some luck over the next 6 weeks or so).

Got to be honest, this sounds a lot like the more optimistic Eagles fans (of which I was one) at the end of 2022. We had legitimate reasons for the disaster of the season and a couple of bright spots. Didn’t make 2023 or 2024 any easier. Reckon Richmond have reset even harder, so a tough couple of years seems the minimum. But that’s what happens after sustained success at the top.

 

[juss]

Richmond hit the draft hard in 2021 taking five picks in the top 30.
This was meant to be the beginning of their rebuild, but none of these players are coming on as Richmond would have hoped.

Those guys are like 21 years old, unfortunately multiple of them have had significant injury setbacks, I would say Sonsie is probably the only one we'd be a little dissapointed in. Gibcus will be a good player if he can get fit, ditto Tom Brown is coming on nicely. Judson Clarke did an ACL but was showing promise. Banks is just average, but at 21 he's got loads of time to improve and you don't need a list of stars to win a flag, you need guys who can do a job or play a role.

Richmond took seven picks in the top 30 of the 2024 draft, but what happens if these players don't come on and the draft is a bust like the 2021 draft?

What happens if insert any team has a draft full of players that don't come on? You reasses and hit the next draft(s). Every pick is either hit or miss, but when you give yourself multiple picks you give yourself more chances to secure quality AFL players. The draft was supposedly well rated, it's the 2025 draft that is potentially not as well rated.

It could be the beginning of a long period in the wilderness similar to 1983-2016.

I mean, that's pretty dramatic, I don't think the 2024 draft will be tied to 30 years of mediocrity. The club as a whole is much better placed and run since those days.

Yze isn't a good coach either, as a player he was a flaky half back flanker who never tasted premiership success and he was a part of a loser culture at Melbourne.
The likes of Caroline Wilson will have the knives out for him soon enough, probably as soon as this year if Richmond look like winning another wooden spoon.

This is a pretty poor read, we know very little about Yze's coaching yet, and tying it to his ability or the type of player he was has no impact on whether he'll be a good coach or not. There's maybe some argument that not playing in a premiership has meant he hasn't had that direct environment experience at an AFL premiership team, but there's a lot of coaches around who fit that bill, I don't think it's the be all and end all of coaching, otherwise all clubs would just be hiring ex premiership players.

Also, just about every media pundit has us as a lock for the spoon, so there won't be any knives out if we are tracking that way, it is in many ways expected given we'll likely be playing a lot of inexperienced kids. So really, either Yze coaches a predicted spoon team to a spoon, or we do slightly better than that and he's done better than expected. There's not much for him to lose in 2025.

 

[Cdog71]

Also finished equal 3rd in the Brownlow medal too.

Equal with Crawford and Voss

 

[Cdog71]

Yze has not had the chance to be a bad coach, lol


looking better than Geelong

I can understand your getting edgy and nervous as a Geelong supporter.

I hope the mods do not keep you out because I fell for your fear for your Geelong team heading to the abyss and RFC potential down the track is frightening

Mate, it’s school holidays

 

[Freomaniac]

Brisbane Lions played in 4 GFs in a row, winning 3 flags from 2001-2004. The following season they finished 11th. For the next 14 seasons, except for 2009, they finished well down the ladder. They were fortunate to find talented players and form them into a premiership winning unit. Trouble is, while they were enjoying their success, they weren't able to draft quality juniors, and eventually all their senior players retired at the same time.

Hawthorn went through a similar period after their 3-peat, haven't played finals since 2018. Clarko understood he would lose a nucleus of the team all at once and tried weeding out senior players and bringing in younger ones. It didn't work, and now Mitchell is pretty much starting afresh.

I can see Richmond going through a similar period in the next couple of years. West Coast are in a similar position. Rebuilding takes courage, skill, and a lot of good fortune. Most football supporters don't understand this and just choose to ridicule, using the hackneyed old phrase "tanking". The bottom line is, somebody has to be near the bottom of the table, only the poorly run clubs are there for lengthy periods of time.

1st off Brisbane's 1999 to 2004 finals era was at least 20 years ago. A hell of a side. Even more remarkable they won 3 flags in a row as a non Victorian side.

They were never gonna get top 10 picks unless they traded a good player out like Des Headland to the dockers in 2002.

Dockers didn't win a flag but they had a solid finals run from 2012-15. They then dropped in 2016 as the squad was old.

West coast.... From 2014 to 2021. Not one year they had a top 10 picks. 2014 and 2021 , both years they finished 9th and had pick 11.

2015 to 2020, eagles made finals for 6 years in a row. No top 10 picks in that period.

Eagles finished bottom 2 in 2022. Traded that pick 2 and somehow ended up with picks 8 and 12.

Last time eagles got a top 10 picks before 2021 was 2013 when they finished 13th with pick 6.

As a dockers fan, I have no issues not having a top 10 picks for 3 years in a row, as long as dockers finish a bare minimum of 8th spot for 3 years in a row.

 

[Freomaniac]

Frawley, Wallace, Rawlings, Hardwick and McQualter.
That's five coaches and most likely to become six next year.
We've had two coaches in the same time frame and the last time we sacked a coach was in 1988.

This isn't the 1980s where Tony Jewell was sacked one year after the 1980 flag after finishing 7th. Or the time Richmond sacked a coach almost every year from 1981 onwards.

Those blokes you listed.... Frawley, Wallace and Hardwick all had at least 4 or 5 years.

They also had Robert walls and John Northey in the 1990s too.

Speaking of 1988, Richmond hired Kevin Bartlett at the end of 1988. They let him stay there until 1991.

 

[Taper]

They will be the next team to go back to back.

...


With spoons.

If Richmond win another spoon this year and Yze survives into 2026, he would want to start wearing raincoats to games in order to protect himself from the incoming saliva.

 

[Lunchtime]

Equal with Crawford and Voss

Thats right

 

[Grrr]

If Richmond win another spoon this year and Yze survives into 2026, he would want to start wearing raincoats to games in order to protect himself from the incoming saliva.

Why, we are expecting the spoon or thereabouts and have a swag of kids not seen since the new clubs hit the AFL to watch develop. How can this year be worse than last where the arse fell out. We are quietly optimistic, but don't expect much this year.

Richmond have 26 players who are either new to the club or have played under 20 odd games, 12 of those are picks 30 and under. No other club would have that I would wager.

 

[Grrr]

Got to be honest, this sounds a lot like the more optimistic Eagles fans (of which I was one) at the end of 2022. We had legitimate reasons for the disaster of the season and a couple of bright spots. Didn’t make 2023 or 2024 any easier. Reckon Richmond have reset even harder, so a tough couple of years seems the minimum. But that’s what happens after sustained success at the top.

Well you did get wiped out by injury which really set you back but you have drafted well since '22. Last year you showed good improvement and you would think you should continue improving this season. You are realistically in your second year of rebuild, 2023 lost to injury, so reason to be optimistic.

Not sure why our reset is harder. Plenty of very good players still at the club, and blooded some good kids last year and 8 good ones (in theory) this year. 2 top 1-6 picks next year as well.

 

[Rich01]

If Richmond win another spoon this year and Yze survives into 2026, he would want to start wearing raincoats to games in order to protect himself from the incoming saliva.

That’s a boneheaded expectation.

Another year at the bottom is what’s expected. Even the most optimistic punter wouldn’t have us rising past 17th this year. For me if we win more games than last year it would be a Herculean effort.

 

[Obeanie1]

keep it coming, he he

the more others downplay us, the more room we have to develop under cover

pretty obvious in a few years most players will want to come and play at Tigerland

 

[Obeanie1]

Why, we are expecting the spoon or thereabouts and have a swag of kids not seen since the new clubs hit the AFL to watch develop. How can this year be worse than last where the arse fell out. We are quietly optimistic, but don't expect much this year.

Richmond have 26 players who are either new to the club or have played under 20 odd games, 12 of those are picks 30 and under. No other club would have that I would wager.

This season will be worse than 2024.

Replaced best 22 experienced premiership players with 18 yr olds.

Where do you expect the jump in improvement coming from versus last year?

2025 is a development year.

 

[branedotorg]

Why, we are expecting the spoon or thereabouts and have a swag of kids not seen since the new clubs hit the AFL to watch develop. How can this year be worse than last where the arse fell out. We are quietly optimistic, but don't expect much this year.

Richmond have 26 players who are either new to the club or have played under 20 odd games, 12 of those are picks 30 and under. No other club would have that I would wager.

minimum three years, probably five at the bottom imo. longer term prospects look very good at this early stage though

 

[Wojcinski]

Richmond supporters being "quietly optimistic" about 2025 is interesting, I hope that optimism is for another #1 pick

 

[Grrr]

This season will be worse than 2024.

Replaced best 22 experienced premiership players with 18 yr olds.

Where do you expect the jump in improvement coming from versus last year?

2025 is a development year.

Out injured for a good a good deal of last season, Lynch and Gibcus all season, Prestia, Hopper, Ross, Taranto, Rioli Jnr, Clarke, Lefau, Bauer, Young, Fawcett. All missed large chunks of the season or practically all of it. We had 4 players in the VFL for 3 weeks at some stage, and two of them were mid season additions. All are fit and training apart from those coming back from ACL's. Dow was our senior mid for quite a few games, and he is in nobody's best 25.

Campbell, Brown, Trezise, Smith, Green, Blight, Banks, McAuliffe all had game time and all played pretty well for their first seasons, and they are all physically ready. Whether any, some or most make it we won't know, but you can expect improvement as a rule.

The 18 year old should not even get a look in with the exception of Lalor who is built like a brick shithouse, and Smillie who is a 196cm mid. They should get limited game time whilst developing, but high drafted kids in most sides usually do well off the back, although not for entire seasons.

Martin was barely going last season, Baker had checked out, Graham is borderline best 22. Rioli and Bolton are guns, but they are two flankers, so more easily replaced than the likes of Lynch and important midfielders.

I don't expect to rise up the ladder, if we do it won't be far, but I think we will be much stronger and far more experienced than last season where we blooded the most players in the comp.

 

[Grrr]

Richmond supporters being "quietly optimistic" about 2025 is interesting, I hope that optimism is for another #1 pick

Yes it is. Nobody is being blindly optimistic, and most expect the spoon or there abouts, but we have had a clean out, are injury free right now, (nabbed Geelong's fitness manager,) and a swag of kids in the wings. A lot different to last season.... providing we don't cop the injury list like last year, then it will be a disaster.

 

[Coach_Required]

Richmond supporters being "quietly optimistic" about 2025 is interesting, I hope that optimism is for another #1 pick

We will finish last, the optimism is more about getting to see the young guys play some games and how the team begins to look. Seeing half a dozen of our senior players "check out" halfway through the year didnt help our 2024 season.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Out injured for a good a good deal of last season, Lynch and Gibcus all season, Prestia, Hopper, Ross, Taranto, Rioli Jnr, Clarke, Lefau, Bauer, Young, Fawcett. All missed large chunks of the season or practically all of it. We had 4 players in the VFL for 3 weeks at some stage, and two of them were mid season additions. All are fit and training apart from those coming back from ACL's. Dow was our senior mid for quite a few games, and he is in nobody's best 25.

Campbell, Brown, Trezise, Smith, Green, Blight, Banks, McAuliffe all had game time and all played pretty well for their first seasons, and they are all physically ready. Whether any, some or most make it we won't know, but you can expect improvement as a rule.

The 18 year old should not even get a look in with the exception of Lalor who is built like a brick shithouse, and Smillie who is a 196cm mid. They should get limited game time whilst developing, but high drafted kids in most sides usually do well off the back, although not for entire seasons.

Martin was barely going last season, Baker had checked out, Graham is borderline best 22. Rioli and Bolton are guns, but they are two flankers, so more easily replaced than the likes of Lynch and important midfielders.

I don't expect to rise up the ladder, if we do it won't be far, but I think we will be much stronger and far more experienced than last season where we blooded the most players in the comp.

With any luck we'll be fairly fit and won' thave to conjure a team out of scraps. Also teh coaching group might actually work together.

The core of the team is OK. It will compete with most other teams. IF FIT.

However, I expect and hope that we will play the young guys and give players like Sonsie a shot at making a position their own. That will hurt performance. Which is OK.

I suspect that we will rest Lynch and Prestia if they are fit but tiring.

There is no reason to try adn win as many games as possible. But there is a good reason to try and develop as many players as possible, without smashing them.

if we get injuries like last year we are shot and will coem last by a long way

 

[Footy Smarts]

The core of the team is OK. It will compete with most other teams. IF FIT.

Who is this core that can compete with most teams?

Cause I count 9 players who I'm confident would be better than fringe players in an ok side and many of those are old and/or injury prone.

 

[Grrr]

Who is this core that can compete with most teams?

Cause I count 9 players who I'm confident would be better than fringe players in an ok side and many of those are old and/or injury prone.

Well take the injury out, because we have acknowledged that injury hits and we are in big trouble.
Lynch, Prestia, Vlastuin, Taranto, Short, Balta, Nankervis, Broad and Hopper are all proven players. 7 of them have multiple premierships.

Ross, Mansell, Ralphsmith were good players last year, Ross stuffed by injury but he has been a good player for a while.


The others are fringe of course because they are just starting. Campbell looks ready to really make and impression. Brown has plenty of talent. Lefau was good before injury. Plenty of others look good, some of them will come on like all clubs.

We have 26 players in that category or just beginning. That is a lot.

 

[Mr Magic]

We will finish last, the optimism is more about getting to see the young guys play some games and how the team begins to look. Seeing half a dozen of our senior players "check out" halfway through the year didnt help our 2024 season.

agree.

if we did not have Lalor, Smillie, Armstrong, Jonty, Trainor, Hotton, with Mccauliffe and Blight having a crack, as well as Alger, Gibcus, Brown, Simms and some other youngsters who definitely could spring up, I would be in a rage.

But these kids have real potential and are not that far off. we still have Taranto and Lynch.

2025? nah but a rise in 2027 of sorts or before is not impossible but the bottom line is when we do rise we do not dive into no mans land


given the strength of teams like GWS, Gold Coast rising, CFC, Brisbane and even the Pies for at least 2025 we are not in the hunt for the next few years regardless in terms of premierships so it is academic. add in Freo and others on the rise like the Swans and far more advanced we cannot win in 2025 at least anyway

The more our kids develop, the more we are kicking goals in the long run for down the track

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Richmond supporters being "quietly optimistic" about 2025 is interesting, I hope that optimism is for another #1 pick

Our actual optimism is centered around us having #2 pick.

And North having #1 pick

 

[Freomaniac]

We will finish last, the optimism is more about getting to see the young guys play some games and how the team begins to look. Seeing half a dozen of our senior players "check out" halfway through the year didnt help our 2024 season.

Sounds about right. Some of those older players that checked out halfway into that 2024 season , some knew that they were done.

You can tell Dustin Martin was sore and tired by the time he reached his 300th game.

Some of those blokes that were core players in that 2017-2020 era knew it was time.

Funny how Damien Hardwick wanted Dustin Martin at the suns for a season or 2. It was unlikely to happen.

 

[Freomaniac]

The introduction of Tasmania into the AFL could come at a bad time for Richmond in terms of a rebuild. I think they've got 2 - 3 years of being a competitive mid range team before they bottom out and have to rebuild in several heavily compromised drafts.

Ummm.... Richmond have been here before. Gold coast came to the AFL in 2011 and had most of the 1st round in 2010.

Richmond drafted lots of kids in the 2007-2009 drafts.

Tassie comes into the AFL in 2028. So they will get the majority of the 1st round picks in 2027.

Richmond went nuts in this 2024 trade period and got lots of 1st and 2nd rounders.

I expect the same again in 2025.