Autopsy Roast Toast & Changes for Hawthorn

[69vintage]

We need to have a look at what hawks are doing. Making teams look 2nd rate atm with their ball movement

main difference is they have an actual game plan

3 small forwards . Can't believe that works

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[69vintage]

27 Tackles taking the piss .

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[_RT_]

Reading a lot of comments about the lack of game plan and want to address it.

There is an attacking game plan and you can see it but it's only really early on that you do, as it falls away quickly as our midfield & forwards stop doing what they started with.

We look for quick clean movement of the footy with a win in the middle leading to the ball being fed out to the wing/HF area then looking to hit up the leading forwards. We were doing it yesterday in the first quarter and it was looking good, but the for whatever reason it stopped. Our forwards stopped leading and our clearances started to become more straight out the front and long bombs to about 25m out.

Whether this is instruction or forwards stopping because they don't get honoured on the lead so just stand there and wait for the slow long high entry is the issue.

Defensively we're pretty sound with our structure inside D50, it's a couple of issues up the ground that we're getting hurt by, which then creates the issues that breakdown our structure.

Firstly it's the lack of pressure we generate inside F50 once we lose possession that allows the opposition easy transitions from defensive half to forward half, which doesn't give our midfield any time to push back to support the defenders.

Secondly it's our sloppiness with regards to execution that catches us out of position. When we win the ball in D50 we look for the quick counter attack either through direct run and carry or handball chains through the defensive side of the centre, which shoud be leading to a quick entry in to a forward in space. Which brings me back to the point above about our forwards not moving like they start out doing and instead waiting for the ball to be kicked in to a pack.

The other issue is our ability to stuff up these opportunities by missing an easy kick or handball or the receiver fumbles creating unnecessary pressure. There were at least half a dozen times yesterday where KMac was the receiver for the ball to the outside but he fumbled or missed the next link. In contrast when we went through Banks side it kept the play flowing until the forwards failed to present an option or if they did it was an outnumbered situation that led to the turnover.

When we have the likes of Banks Campbell Ralphsmith Rioli Short Trezise & Vlastuin coming out of D50/off the wings we look so much better as they run and carry and take the game on. The next issue is getting the mix right inside 50, which won't be sorted until 2025 unfortunately, due to injuries.

The signs are there, they're just easily overlooked due to the rest of the game being hard to watch.

 

[tora tora tora]

Changes (based on the 1.5 qtrs I watched after getting off a plane...)

Out: Samson, Kamdyn (to sub), Miller, Dow

In: Blight, Sonsie (as a mid, Hopper to play across half-forward), Ross, Smith (from sub to starting 22)

Possibly add Cumbo just for the lols instead of Kamydn.

First full game I'd seen for a while too. Jeez the game from Nank. Had a shocker. The dumb goal to Marshall. Vlas trying to hit up Nank and turning it over. Even Balta great intercept mark, plays on turns it over.
TBH Miller was behind in a couple of marking contests. Balta for Ryan up fwd. Blight down back.
Baker if, available, for Dow.
Ross for Kmac be good, unless there's VFL finals that need qualifying for.

 

[crackertiger]

Headless chook reverse handball into traffic is the only game plan I am seeing. We needed to the dust off the Benny Hill record yesterday and playing over the loud speakers at Marvel. Don't worry about playing country road after a goal, we need the Benny Hill song mid play....

No wonder Dusty couldn't do it anymore.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Blight could have had a solid 7-8 week stretch of games from his debut to the end of this awful season. Had 32 in the VFL today fmd, get him in and keep him there

He’s part of our future so play him ffs

We're playing everyone we possibly can. If someone's not playing, there's a reason for it.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Well at least Rioli reminded everyone of his trade value.
Next year we'll be historically uncompetitive. Take the worst team in the comp and remove the only three players who can move the ball (Rioli, Bolton, Baker)? We'll be lucky if we can average 5 goals a game. Dark decade ahead.

Teams can completely change over one of season and you're acting like we don't be able to make any changes over a decade lmao.

Talking about taking those guys out, but how about adding the injured guys in? Lynch, Gibcus, Lefau, Ross? How about the addition of the new draftees? The continued improvement of young guys like Seth, Ralphsmith, Brown, Banks? Our first year coach going into his second year.

A good team makes every player look better and a bad team makes them look worse than they are. It can change very quickly and when we start playing a contentment game plan you will suddenly see all these guys breaking out.

Just think about how we used to play. You could run and take the game on and you would know there was a teammate right beside you to give it off. Now? Players do that and then there's just no one to give it to and they get caught. How can anyone play well in that type of system? How can defenders look good when the quality of ball coming in against them is so high? How can forwards look good when the quality coming in to them is so poor?

The list is in better shape than it looks right now. It's just going start to gel and then well get a better idea.

 

[prodigy1311]

If we’re still playing like this with Lynch at FF (and Gray beside him) and Gibcus at FB (with Blight beside him), then we can panic…This will turn around quickly…

I share your sentiment but expecting Lynch to play more than 15 games a season is unrealistic and we don't have any replacements! Gibcus, well i am yet to see his potential and at this stage not sure if his body holds up for AFL.

whichever way you look at it, the next 2-3 years will be painful especially of we lose all of Baler, Bolton & rioli

 

[tugga]

First full game I'd seen for a while too. Jeez the game from Nank. Had a shocker. The dumb goal to Marshall. Vlas trying to hit up Nank and turning it over. Even Balta great intercept mark, plays on turns it over.
TBH Miller was behind in a couple of marking contests. Balta for Ryan up fwd. Blight down back.
Baker if, available, for Dow.
Ross for Kmac be good, unless there's VFL finals that need qualifying for.

Baker was concussed during training so he still has to sit out another game.

 

[Vassp]

Yup...some very spoilt chicken littles losing their sheet on here at the moment.
Club hasn't even started to begin rebuilding...
FMD...what are they going to be like when the sheet really starts to hit the fan when Tassy comes on!!!!

We are on the bottom of the ladder with one of our worst seasons ever, I think that's understandable.

 

[Tygrys]

Lynch is finished. Any goals from this point of his career should be seen as a bonus. Gibcus, Blight and Balta is a solid defence. Our midfield is horrific though and forwardline is all time bad.

Gibcus will be coming back from two catastrophic injuries in two years. Until he proves that his body can stand up to the rigours of AFL football, he should also be considered a bonus (likewise Judson Clarke and Mykelti Lefau who'll both be coming back from second knee reconstructions).

 

[Burning bright]

Yze " Aww we have had a plan going since the bye around finishing the season really strongly and play in the right spirit I felt sorry for the players "

This guy is such a poor rookie coach the messaging is mind numbing.



.

 

[Grrr]

ok but he will retire in 3 years anyway

At 31? Might go for another 4-5 years. There is merit in the argument about 2 draft pics, but we could be in a dire place without players like Rioli for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[sabso]

out Ryan Dow
In Ross mozza
Bauer to start FF
Mcintosh sub

Someone needs to take one for the team and kick Sicily square in the nuts

 

[Tygrys]

At 31? Might go for another 4-5 years. There is merit in the argument about 2 draft pics, but we could be in a dire place without players like Rioli for the next 2-3 seasons.

More dire than the wooden spoon? And with only two years to hit the draft hard before Tasmania comes in?

I love D. Rioli, always have. However the average age of AFL player retirement is 31. Fans always tell themselves when it's a player they love that they don't want to loose that they could play into their mid-30s and beyond. They'll pick some extreme outlier from another club to prove their point eg Pendlebury or Hawkins, and say if they can do it, why can't so and so.

Whether he leaves or stays, we have to run on the assumption that he will very most likely play only until he is 31. That's the equation, do we try and keep a player that most likely will only play for another four years or take the two firsts. That's the cold hard calculation.

If the club thinks 4 more years of Rioli is enough, then so be it. But they couldn't responsibly think in longer terms than that when weighing up the pros and cons.

 

[Grrr]

Why was Ralphsmith moved from wing to half forward, to give MacIntosh a last gasp? HRS has been our best wingman all year. We lacked his running power. MacIntosh has to be put to pasture if we are going to progress, as good a teammate as he is.

Why was Smith brought in to play small forward. Has played all his footy as a backman, would like to see him on the wing, even try something different and throw the fresh and fast legs in to the middle like he was used in the VFL some weeks back, with very good results. Try something different.

Short should be used forward next week. He got plenty off it and was far from our worst, but r.22 let's give the kids a good run and a look into next year.

Not sure why Bauer was hardly used as a marking target. Every time we bombed it long he seemed to be nowhere to be seen. Give he the licence to fly for his marks, because he can.

 

[tugga]

if we win ill farken loose it like no tomorrow

would be such a Richmond thing to do

They will beat us by 100-plus

 

[Grrr]

More dire than the wooden spoon? And with only two years to hit the draft hard before Tasmania comes in?

I love D. Rioli, always have. However the average age of AFL player retirement is 31. Fans always tell themselves when it's a player they love that they don't want to loose that they could play into their mid-30s and beyond. They'll pick some extreme outlier from another club to prove their point eg Pendlebury or Hawkins, and say if they can do it, why can't so and so.

Whether he leaves or stays, we have to run on the assumption that he will very most likely play only until he is 31. That's the equation, do we try and keep a player that most likely will only play for another four years or take the two firsts. That's the cold hard calculation.

If the club thinks 4 more years of Rioli is enough, then so be it. But they couldn't responsibly think in longer terms than that when weighing up the pros and cons.

There is a bit of a rule for that, if you slow down you retire early. Look at Dangerfield, still Geelong's barometer because he still has speed. Rioli would be about our quickest player, so good chance he will last longer.

I agree with the conundrum of whether to let go or keep, there is merit in both arguments.

 

[LTT]

I know McIntosh performances are well documented but 6 possessions playing four quarters on a wing! Just been doing this too often. I dont get playing him coz he has no leadership and doesn’t protect young guys and his experience counts for nothing. Season was over 10 weeks ago and I would have preferred club to pay Sonsie and Cumbo over him and I reckon they’re no good.

Some of this is not Yze's fault. KMac and Grimes had that extension clause based on games played last year and Minnie played them. Shorts contract was renewed when Dimma was coach and wanted him. However, that still does not justify playing either ahead of the kids when they are out of form. Worse still we played KMac on a wing when we had young wingers needing a game and were desperate for marking forwards, a role he is big enough to play. The other one is Graham. He will be gone next year according to all the trade talk but we kept walking him straight back in after injury. It hasn't done him or us any good. Basically, we have wasted 50 games of experience on those three over this year alone.

 

[Truetiger]

Reading a lot of comments about the lack of game plan and want to address it.

There is an attacking game plan and you can see it but it's only really early on that you do, as it falls away quickly as our midfield & forwards stop doing what they started with.

We look for quick clean movement of the footy with a win in the middle leading to the ball being fed out to the wing/HF area then looking to hit up the leading forwards. We were doing it yesterday in the first quarter and it was looking good, but the for whatever reason it stopped. Our forwards stopped leading and our clearances started to become more straight out the front and long bombs to about 25m out.

Whether this is instruction or forwards stopping because they don't get honoured on the lead so just stand there and wait for the slow long high entry is the issue.

Defensively we're pretty sound with our structure inside D50, it's a couple of issues up the ground that we're getting hurt by, which then creates the issues that breakdown our structure.

Firstly it's the lack of pressure we generate inside F50 once we lose possession that allows the opposition easy transitions from defensive half to forward half, which doesn't give our midfield any time to push back to support the defenders.

Secondly it's our sloppiness with regards to execution that catches us out of position. When we win the ball in D50 we look for the quick counter attack either through direct run and carry or handball chains through the defensive side of the centre, which shoud be leading to a quick entry in to a forward in space. Which brings me back to the point above about our forwards not moving like they start out doing and instead waiting for the ball to be kicked in to a pack.

The other issue is our ability to stuff up these opportunities by missing an easy kick or handball or the receiver fumbles creating unnecessary pressure. There were at least half a dozen times yesterday where KMac was the receiver for the ball to the outside but he fumbled or missed the next link. In contrast when we went through Banks side it kept the play flowing until the forwards failed to present an option or if they did it was an outnumbered situation that led to the turnover.

When we have the likes of Banks Campbell Ralphsmith Rioli Short Trezise & Vlastuin coming out of D50/off the wings we look so much better as they run and carry and take the game on. The next issue is getting the mix right inside 50, which won't be sorted until 2025 unfortunately, due to injuries.

The signs are there, they're just easily overlooked due to the rest of the game being hard to watch.

To smart for some of us to work out. Only selected few can see it.

 

[jetbhag]

Yze saying Big Sexy is touch and go. If Lunch plays again this season he'll do another injury.

 

[guruisatiger]

I have seen it, but didn't notice it today?

Was so close to the field this week could clearly hear them talking such a small crowd didn't help I also sat front row ground level Collingwood game he was the same
Noah was getting lippy as well against Saints.. there is no on field leadership whatsoever. It's a huge concern going forward
Nank is an introvert he is a bad choice of captain
Hopefully Baker stays and becomes captain
Maybe cotch and jr8 can help in a part time development leadership role over summer

 

[guruisatiger]

That was a glorified training run.

When Banks got 40 in the VFL a couple of months ago i thought ‘he must have something’. Last few weeks have convinced me we’ve actually got a good young player in Banks… hooray! He has only played 18 games.

Don’t get the hate on Tresize in the gameday thread. He needs some polish, but very encouraging also… 22 touches, 6 intercepts. The kid has played 7 games and is showing plenty.

A couple of good signs from Bauer.

A sh*t truck of a game and an even worse season …. but we’ve unearthed a few quality youngsters that means we are not coming from ground zero with our youth - most just haven’t played enough games yet.

And if Macca starts in the 22 again ahead of Smith or another youngster that’ll just about do me. By all means make him sub, but so NOT play that momentum killing in the starting team ever again Yze … I beg you!! It’s almost laughable now. Falling over, out on the fulls, playing on from OOB … I actually think he’s trying to get dropped, but he just can’t.


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With nipper tresize we must remember he was never in afl elite pathways
He is coming from a long way back.but has time and with good coaching and development. He will make a very serviceable player. A Mr reliable not flashy not brilliant but reliable

 

[guruisatiger]

Surely Surely Surely
They won't pick Lynch in either of last 2 games

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Hawthorn are going to obliterate us