Preview Round 16, 2023: West Coast v St.Kilda - Optus Stadium, Sunday 2nd July, 4:40PM AEST *WILKIE 100TH*

[Cairnsman]

Yes, but that doesn't suit Vortex's narrative...........please keep up...

I’m never wrong Dis Believer…Woodville have already locked Coops away for next season.

 

[Cairnsman]

Not really. One was coming back from injury the other was fully fit.

So Steele wasn’t coming back from injury 4 weeks after smashing his shoulder into sever pieces for the second time?

 

[bird_man]

So Steele wasn’t coming back from injury 4 weeks after smashing his shoulder into sever pieces for the second time?

He was still able to run for most of that time and had come off a full pre season

Completely different again

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think most astute footy pundits know Sharman won’t be on the list next year, so Caminiti doesn’t need to do a mini pre season but Jack does?

Caminiti did a pre-season with Carlton.
And if you’re talking about his “Murphy induced” break - it wasn’t for injury, like Jack. He would have kept up his fitness.

 

[George]

Getting quality mids from other clubs is easier said than done. We’ve been trying that for 10 years now.

Have we? We've been infatuated with half backs I reckon

 

[Cairnsman]

He was still able to run for most of that time and had come off a full pre season

Completely different again

Not different at all…how many weeks does someone of Billing’s supposed standing at the club need? How long has he been playing at Sandy? And he almost did a full pre season before his injury. In the context of where we are at in the season and the lack of AFL quality below pick 8 to 10 on the list you’d think he’d be way ahead of many even with a shallow fitness base. Somethings up.

 

[George]

So who is the quality pick we’re getting?
would like to have that signed, sealed and delivered first.

Sad, but true.

The key word was if.

 

[George]

That's so cute, I love how you think we can find and attract talent. We'd just over-pay a new bunch of kids who get lazy being the okay players in a s**t side and the same s**t will be on repeat....but some old half arsed HBF that needs a retirement package now that their knees are shot will come in to use all the salary cap but provide leadership and we had to use the money anyway....

We need to keep sprinkling glitter on this turd and hope that enough of a crust builds up that the smell gets contained. At the moment our only plan out is Tom DeKoning who would be like buying a jar of pickled fish to drown out the smell.

That's even cuter. Why do you think it'll be the same? Weren't you one of RTB's cheerleaders with your pom-poms out last year?

 

[MickG88]

Good way of playing WC into form, Bytel is a pure inside mid no more no less.

Pretty good goal kicker.

 

[gringo2011]

That's even cuter. Why do you think it'll be the same? Weren't you one of RTB's cheerleaders with your pom-poms out last year?

I’m still on board the Ross train. I’m a big picture person. I think at a minimum he’s rebuilding the footy department. I’m a lot more confident that we have adults in charge now.

 

[George]

I’m still on board the Ross train. I’m a big picture person. I think at a minimum he’s rebuilding the footy department. I’m a lot more confident that we have adults in charge now.

Right so it won't be the same

 

[beside the seaside]

Not different at all…how many weeks does someone of Billing’s supposed standing at the club need? How long has he been playing at Sandy? And he almost did a full pre season before his injury. In the context of where we are at in the season and the lack of AFL quality below pick 8 to 10 on the list you’d think he’d be way ahead of many even with a shallow fitness base. Somethings up.

Does it really matter if he plays this week or not? He is coming back off a hamstring, we are playing the bottom team on the other side of the country and he's hardly going to be the difference between winning and losing. Just save him for Melbourne which is a much more important game.

 

[austinnn]

In the next 6 games, we play the bottom 4 teams plus the Dees and Suns. I really hope that we get our shit together and take advantage of our good draw to at least consolidate our position in the top 6. I think we'll look a bit better by then.

16 WCE away
17 Melb home
18 GC away
19 North home
20 Hawthorn "away" (Marvel)
21 Carl home

22 Rich home
23 Geelong home
24 Bris away

 

[Cairnsman]

.

Does it really matter if he plays this week or not? He is coming back off a hamstring, we are playing the bottom team on the other side of the country and he's hardly going to be the difference between winning and losing. Just save him for Melbourne which is a much more important game.

This weeks game could be the perfect week to introduce him back to the level

 

[bird_man]

Not different at all…how many weeks does someone of Billing’s supposed standing at the club need? How long has he been playing at Sandy? And he almost did a full pre season before his injury. In the context of where we are at in the season and the lack of AFL quality below pick 8 to 10 on the list you’d think he’d be way ahead of many even with a shallow fitness base. Somethings up.

I’ve pointed out the differences but I’ll do it again

Caminiti was fully fit and coming off a pre season with another club

Steele did a full pre season and did an injury that would have only affected his running for a week or 2 so would have lost little fitness

Billings missed 2 months with a fractured leg so he’s clearly going to lose some fitness in that time. He then did a hammy and is one game back.

There’s zero relevance in comparing him to those players

 

[kernelT]

How’s Luke Penny

Luke Penny

Age

43

Ht

193cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.8

3star

No current season stats available

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

looking for this week?

 

[Mowman]

I’m still on board the Ross train. I’m a big picture person. I think at a minimum he’s rebuilding the footy department. I’m a lot more confident that we have adults in charge now.

As am I

 

[Mowman]

Not different at all…how many weeks does someone of Billing’s supposed standing at the club need? How long has he been playing at Sandy? And he almost did a full pre season before his injury. In the context of where we are at in the season and the lack of AFL quality below pick 8 to 10 on the list you’d think he’d be way ahead of many even with a shallow fitness base. Somethings up.

Something is up alright

 

[MrFoster]

In the next 6 games, we play the bottom 4 teams plus the Dees and Suns. I really hope that we get our s**t together and take advantage of our good draw to at least consolidate our position in the top 6. I think we'll look a bit better by then.

16 WCE away
17 Melb home
18 GC away
19 North home
20 Hawthorn "away" (Marvel)
21 Carl home

22 Rich home
23 Geelong home
24 Bris away

I hope we play with more freedom and dare. At the moment, the game style now looks similar to last year, push forwards to midfield and defence to win the ball, then move the ball forward but very safe and slowly. The only difference is early in the season we were able to pressure the opposition to force turnovers, and implement a good zone. But now that doesn’t work.

Personally I’d prefer we play like Hawthorn, take the game on, overlapping run and move the ball quickly to give our forwards a chance. Even if we lose, at least you can see a sustainable game style and identify which players to persist with. Then you’ll see King/Camaniti and our small forwards really come alive. Bring in Campbell to ruck, Marshall to CHB to provide an intercepting marking option. Marshall was playing as a defender/ruck in VFL when we drafted him. He is not a full time tap ruckman, training him for the last 4-5 years has not improved his craft much e.g. palming the ball directly to our mids or in the path of our mids.

Unfortunately, not sure Ross Lyon is an adventurous type of coach to change game style mid-season.

 

[Nutsngum]

Played zero games this year and 8 games last year when was he last fit and when was the last time he played good football?

Couple of good games early 2021 ?

Yeah yeah it’s an echo chamber because people have different opinions then yours

You didnt even bother researching anything to support your opinion and now youre trotting out vague handwavy memories to try and prove your point.
Also ignoring the consistent talk in multiple threads about how much of a bust he is/trading him now/"hes gone" comments based on gut feelings.

Claiming I just dont like differnt opinions is a cop out and really just proves you dont really give a toss about debating in good faith.

 

[Mowman]

You didnt even bother researching anything to support your opinion and now youre trotting out vague handwavy memories to try and prove your point.
Also ignoring the consistent talk in multiple threads about how much of a bust he is/trading him now/"hes gone" comments based on gut feelings.

Claiming I just dont like differnt opinions is a cop out and really just proves you dont really give a toss about debating in good faith.

How many games this year ? Zero

How many games last year ? 8

Didn’t finish in the top B&F 2021

When did he last play good footy ? What research would you like me to do ? The above 3 points are facts

Debating in good faith? You’re the one called it an echo chamber

He has been paid a million dollars this year and last year to play 8 games so far . My word I think the money could be spent better

He isn’t worth trading because he has no value

 

[botts]

The hammer is gonna kick 4 and get the rising star nom

 

[Nutsngum]

How many games this year ? Zero

How many games last year ? 8

Didn’t finish in the top B&F 2021

When did he last play good footy ? What research would you like me to do ? The above 3 points are facts

Debating in good faith? You’re the one called it an echo chamber

He has been paid a million dollars this year and last year to play 8 games so far . My word I think the money could be spent better

He isn’t worth trading because he has no value

You dont think being injured for the last bunch of years has contribued to the lack of games playerd and general form? Its an incredibly poor basis to judge a player from.

Okay fine. 2021 he had an average season yet still managed to average 20disposals a game, within the top 120players, 6.28 marks per game, within the top 50 of players that year, 3.2 I50s, within the top 100 of the competition. This was also a year where from memory he was playing a lot of wing which is really not his ideal position. His impact was definitely down but just going from stats we can see he is above average in most of what he does and that was supposedly a bad year.

So yes, I think you are underselling him from gut feeling and dont really give a shit in having a reasonable, or fact based discussion on this.

Also I have never said to trade him.

 

[Mowman]

You dont think being injured for the last bunch of years has contribued to the lack of games playerd and general form? Its an incredibly poor basis to judge a player from.

Okay fine. 2021 he had an average season yet still managed to average 20disposals a game, within the top 120players, 6.28 marks per game, within the top 50 of players that year, 3.2 I50s, within the top 100 of the competition. This was also a year where from memory he was playing a lot of wing which is really not his ideal position. His impact was definitely down but just going from stats we can see he is above average in most of what he does and that was supposedly a bad year.

So yes, I think you are underselling him from gut feeling and dont really give a s**t in having a reasonable, or fact based discussion on this.

Also I have never said to trade him.

Judging a player on his last 3 years is a poor way to judge him ? Ok

If and when he plays hope he kills it but history over the last 3 years says this won’t happen

And nothing to do with gut feel it’s my opinion from watching him closely over his whole career and seeing he nothing but a GOP

Ratts didn’t rate him either dropped him to Sandy a few times

 

[StFly]

You dont think being injured for the last bunch of years has contribued to the lack of games playerd and general form? Its an incredibly poor basis to judge a player from.

Okay fine. 2021 he had an average season yet still managed to average 20disposals a game, within the top 120players, 6.28 marks per game, within the top 50 of players that year, 3.2 I50s, within the top 100 of the competition. This was also a year where from memory he was playing a lot of wing which is really not his ideal position. His impact was definitely down but just going from stats we can see he is above average in most of what he does and that was supposedly a bad year.

So yes, I think you are underselling him from gut feeling and dont really give a s**t in having a reasonable, or fact based discussion on this.

Also I have never said to trade him.

I'm prefacing from coming from the admin side of a club, injury means SFA if it's a loading thing, they're commodity and unless there nothing you can update they're at least in discussion, this is part of why Hunter was shopped as opposed to my pick of Coff for example, as enough time has passed to make a call and what sort of upside do you still see? For me, Hunters was more spatial and awareness which can be trained, whilst Coff seems to be structural with him and what his loading actually is, neither are particularly quick, Coff is the smarter of the two but it means SFA if he's stuck in rehab.

Billings as a HFF is impacting Higgins and Butler, does nothing for us not having a true CHF with Hayes out and Keeler new with Ming as the only true KPF that gets games which for me is why we see TDK's name thrown up as Hayes is an unknown if he can maintain what he did previously as too small a sample. That sample however showed mad promise in structure, say unlike Sharman, Hayes was actually used and presented strongly to smart areas to be used. Getting sidetracked, but Billings would be a Kent upgrade previously as a HFF, he doesn't have the manic that Gresh has or the burst Jones had to give us difference, he's like Coff in that he was smarter and worked for it then got injured for prolonged time.

You can only carry so many of those.

I'd keep him as upgrade Coff to a mid if you can score Windy/Owens type to burst in there and supplant what Jones did, such as Hotton for example but the here and now, and then move to the maybe Billing case just because he'd add to that F50 where not many would at present, whereas Coff would not, he'd simply say displace a Stocker.