Autopsy Round 3, 2018: St.Kilda v Adelaide

[sunny3193]

We need regime change.
President-CEO-Coaches-Recruiters-Fitness.

All need to be turned over.

President and CEO: no.
The others: maybe, but too early in the season to make those decisions.

 

[hayes]

When you're at the game it's not hard to see why we have a dysfunctional forward line. There's no one ever in there. At one point after a centre bounce the ball was in dispute for about 10 seconds, we won it, tried to go forward but the only option was Billings vs. 5 opponents. This is 10 seconds after a centre bounce.

I get when you're looking at a TV and see the ball being turned over and thinking the skills are crap but when you're there you can see why. And on the rare occasion we do get it forward we miss badly. Got some serious forward issues.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Think we can all now agree the issue is not about effort, it is far more fundamental to how the team is structured and player development. The big issue now is it is manifesting a loss of confidence which is a cancer and far harder to turn around.

This coaching panel needs time to work through it and find answers. They are squarely on the hook for this. If a team can, on it's day, beat the eventual premiers by 10 goals but turns up to a new season dishing up this rubbish you know it's not a talent problem.

One more thing, those saying we should shut down the club ought to be f*cking ashamed of themselves.

 

[kernelT]

Well 2 aren’t in the side and the other 2 shouldn’t be so I agree


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They played 60 odd games between them last year though when we thought we were in the frame for finals... false economy.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

President and CEO: no.
The others: maybe, but too early in the season to make those decisions.

Sunny, you’re the resident numbers man. What understanding do you have of the impact of only 19000 turning up for a home game?
One would assume this’ll be the norm moving forward, how severe an impact will this have on our bottom line?

Cheers mate

 

[Longmembrey]

Only our defenders are not young.

We have 14 half back flankers. Some of them must be young!

 

[Greg1853]

Billings had 4 kicks! & 13 handballs????

Needs a spell at Sandy to wake up to himself

nah, we want composure and skill on our half forward line. Try playing half forward in the Saints side. 17 possessions not a bad return. You can't control whether immediately after taking possession the best option to take is a handball or kick. I reckon he took the correct option vvirtually every one of those 17 times he got the ball.

 

[Gherkin]

It’s also wrights Mum and dads view


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Lmao

 

[Jade Buddha]

We have 14 half back flankers. Some of them must be young!

Our main back 6
Geary, Brown, Roberton, Carlisle, Webster, Sav

 

[Impatient Saint]

Long post coming..

Watched the game yesterday and having been reading this thread and will give my 2c on the game. First of all the people that are say Drop McCartin have no idea then amount of times he got burnt and ignored was ridiculous not to mention the kicking by our team.

Now let's start with the forwards:

Wright: I'm sorry but just not up to AFL standards. Was a mistake in selecting him and for all the speed had 1 tackle inside 50 which just isn't good enough to go with his 5 disposals.
Gresham/Billings: 2 tackles between them and they go to billings with 0 inside 50. They are fornt runners especially Gresham and simply don't work hard enough run/chase when the going gets tough. Great video online about who the biggest skiier is at the club and no surprise 80% of people said gresham. Needs a real kick up the ass workrate wise. Also too many time their half backs would arrive first into the square with them trialling behind.
Long: Ran chased harassed and couldn't have done more from a pressure point of view. Cracked in hard for the whole game and can hold his head high from that point of view. More possessions that Gresham and same amount of tackles as Billings/Gresh with also 1 being inside 50.
Bruce/Paddy: Both dropped some marks that they should take but the delivery never helps them. Both Tried hard and had more tackles then Bliings/Gresham which tells you everything you need to know. With better delivery they will play better. Your only a by product in the forward line of what the mids/halfback do.

Onto the Defenders.

Webster: Played a very good game and his kicking was one of best. Needs to keep this level of kicking for the rest of the season.
Brown: People saying he should be dropped have no idea. Was solid and impacted numerous other contest. Good game.
Carlisle: Was an okay game and held tex to pretty much nothing with his 2 goals being our own fumbles that he converted. Took some good intercept marks around the ground
Geary: Was solid and looker to be playing higher up the ground a bit.
Coffield: composure and class beyond his years. Was a good debut game.
White: Didn't get much of it but played on an AA lynch and I thought done pretty well. Just need to find a way to get involved and run off more. Should keep his spot.
Roberton/Savage: Well below their best with their kicking in particular being shocking. Need to bust a gut more and actually overlap instead of looking for the handball next to the player. Hardly any run provided by both.

Now the Mids:
Armo: Sorry bud, but 2 clearances to go with 13 odd disposals at 47% for a fulltime mid is just not on. Looked slow and lazy to spread. Gut burnt from every contest on the exit. Out for next week.
Dunstan: Has said this time and time again our real leader in the guts. No idea why he didn't play from the beginning and was probably our best mid. True leader.
Steven: Tried hard but just couldn't get any separation and use his break away speed.
Newnes: Couldn't hit a barn door. Has had an ordinary start to the year and should have a spell in the seconds.
Ross: got plenty of it but needs to be more damaging with it. Too many short kicks and not enough disposals that really open up the play.
Sinclair/Acres: Both started off really well in the middle. Both faded badly but will go into that later on as to why.
Marshall: He needs to play every game. Period. Offered way more around the ground and is just a natural footballer. Came up against an AA Ruckman and he did lose a few hitouts, it's not like they won due to that. Longer should never be played again over him.

Coaching: let's just start with the selection of Wright. Don't need to go too much into that. People reported that Membrey wasn't going to get up on Thursday so why not include Battle/Hickey or even Lonie for that matter?? Anyways just a shocking selection to make.

At half time two of your better players were Sinclair and Acres around the ball. So what does he do? Stick them in the forward pocket! Bloody he'll Wtf is going on with that.

Our structures all over the ground are off. The half forwards are certainly not working hard enough to open space but rather jogging (Gresham and Billings) and I would hate to be our defence. No wonder why none are running past to receive a handball cause when they look up everyone is marked up or just stagnant besides the big guys leading to the wings. If I was a half back I wouldn't run past either.

Kicking around the ground was a bit better than last week, but still not good enough. Dixon needs to go as even last year we looked better kicking for goal. Players look too confused to play their natural game and are worried about screwing up some sort of non existent game plan

Anyways that's enough from me. Next week changes.
Out: Armo, Wright
In: Steele, Weller/Lonie or Membrey if fit.

Great post DS you nailed it!

 

[JimmyMann]

Good summary. Have you seen much of Battle at the VFL level? Regardless of who is in front of him, how confident are you that in a year or two or three that Battle will be a regular at Senior level?

Haven't seen much of him at VFL level but seen a lot of him during his draft year (where he was just about the best key forward on offer). Only hearing about some good performances; with 3 goals this week and last for Sandy.

Similar to Riewoldt in his ability to cover the ground and great endurance, which was one of his greatest assets going into the draft, but also similar to Gunston from Hawthorn in being a beautiful set shot kick at goal, something we need desperately right now.

I have huge confidence in the kid and just think that now he's a full-time AFL footballer, he needs a good chance to show his worth. Similar to Marshall in having a one-off debut last year and reckon he could also similarly come in and immediately improve the side.

 

[stavro#4]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....

But IN MY OPINION..... Paddy has been our best forward the last 2 weeks. We need to help him by improving ball movement and delivery. Easy to blame the forward for not chasing when he just made 3-4 leads in the forward 50 for us to only miss him or sky the ball that he then needs to wrestle with 3-4 players.

We need to persist.

Issues are with the Webster's and Armos of the team

 

[Jade Buddha]

I’m not as pessimistic as most on last nights showing.
Thought our intensity in the first half was great, yep we still need a little more composure, but overall I felt we matched it against a very experienced and rated team.
Adelaide have probably IMO one of the best defenses in the AFL. It was always going to be hard work but losing members just prior was a real blow.
Marshall was great and should stay in the job despite not having the tank yet. Noticed we used Blake in the ruck at times around the ground we’ll need to keep doing this.
Armo was always going to be rusty after so long out so rather than torch his career perhaps just send him back to sandy till he builds up match fitness.
Coffield did exactly what we already knew he was capable of - keeper
I’d consider Phillips for Newnes next week. Blooding the young players and dropping under performers is working regardless of whether they can hold that form.
And finally Paddy did OK considering the opposition, the imbalance came from not having members and Bruce doing some ruck work. I’d look at Battle.
So for next week
Outs: Armo, Wright and Newnes
Ins: Steele, Phillips and Battle

I do understand our coaches hesitance to drop Armo as we have few on field leaders.

 

[Saint Shags]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....

But IN MY OPINION..... Paddy has been our best forward the last 2 weeks. We need to help him by improving ball movement and delivery. Easy to blame the forward for not chasing when he just made 3-4 leads in the forward 50 for us to only miss him or sky the ball that he then needs to wrestle with 3-4 players.

We need to persist.

Issues are with the Webster's and Armos of the team

The worst one was when Long was entering into the F50 and burnt him big time. To Paddys credit he kept leading and ended up getting the mark tight on the boundary line instead of dead in front!

 

[stavro#4]

The worst one was when Long was entering into the F50 and burnt him big time. To Paddys credit he kept leading and ended up getting the mark tight on the boundary line instead of dead in front!

Yep.

 

[Brains Trust66]

Was impressed by Marshall , I thought he battled hard against a good experienced ruckman . Coffield showed he is going to be a class player in a couple years just like Hunter.

Biggest problem going forward is we kick to Paddy and Bruce but kick it high and land it on their heads so neither player can get a good run at it . This game plan of just bombing it long and high makes it too easy for the defenders. Either kick it shorter or to the side so the forwards can get a run at it .

Good to see Sinclair looking better mainly in the first half . To be honest at half time I was reasonably happy as we hadn’t be blown away by the Crows. But we just aren’t kicking enough goals .

Richo seems to have put the blame on the forwards but I blame the disposals going into the forward line and the game plan . Richo needs to take his share of the blame . It’s time he changed the game plan now that we don’t have Roo there to dominate a game.

Biggest problem is still no Plan B .

If Membrey is still injured next week I would bring in Hickey and have Marshall play forward and helping in the ruck.


Go Sainters.

 

[plugger66]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....

But IN MY OPINION..... Paddy has been our best forward the last 2 weeks. We need to help him by improving ball movement and delivery. Easy to blame the forward for not chasing when he just made 3-4 leads in the forward 50 for us to only miss him or sky the ball that he then needs to wrestle with 3-4 players.

We need to persist.

Issues are with the Webster's and Armos of the team

Well if you going to wrap up paddy it’s fairly harsh to have a go at Webster. Those 2 comments suggests you have your blinkers on. I don’t know about you but the job of a marking forward who has no defensive pressure must be kicking goals. Paddy has not done that yet in 3 games. No point in saying he was inaccurate because his job is to be accurate. Webster kicked well yesterday and was pretty good. Armo was poor and doesn’t deserve his spot in the side


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[sunny3193]

Having watched Sandringham yesterday (a half and a bit) and the game last night, I’m leaning this way:

Ins:
Hickey (his best game for over a year)
Steele (played inside mid all day and got 40 possessions)
Battle (great game yesterday, will clearly play AFL this year)

Outs:
Armitage (needs to get some match fitness again and his leadership is not enough to keep him safe)
Bruce (needs to rediscover his marking skills and confidence, no problem with his efforts)
Wright (understand why he was selected but nit really first 22)

***
Marshall to play CHF/FF with Paddy.
Hickey is the ruck, Marshall as his relief.
Battle to fill the Membrey role (assuming he is still injured)

Marshall/Paddy/Battle will still get crucified if we cannot fix the forward delivery but at least it changes up the team.

No other changes, three is enough for this week.
Everyone else on notice though.
Future changes entirely possible but really dependant on performance at Sandringham now.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions....

But IN MY OPINION..... Paddy has been our best forward the last 2 weeks. We need to help him by improving ball movement and delivery. Easy to blame the forward for not chasing when he just made 3-4 leads in the forward 50 for us to only miss him or sky the ball that he then needs to wrestle with 3-4 players.

We need to persist.

Issues are with the Webster's and Armos of the team

I am in the persist with Paddy camp. Just such a shame he couldn't slot the goal after taking that leading mark, would have done wonders for him.

Sadly I knew things weren't going to turn out well when Blake, usually such an accurate goal kicker, missed a few of his.

And what an indictment on all our other players when a debutant can go back and coolly slot a goal.

i didnt mind Websters game, thought his kicking was very good, but Armo has to go the way of Gilbo. He's just not up to it.

 

[wolfpup]

like others just my 2 cents

north (of all teams) setup a weird defensive structure against us and we couldn't cope with it, Adelaide employed a similar structure as will all teams for the rest of the year.

our forward line is broken or not working, even in the north game we we under 3 goals down 10 minutes in to the last quarter with multiple entries into our forward line which were all repelled (we gave up in the north game how it blew out to 52 points annoys me no end).

the amount of goals we concede through counter attacks is amazing.

our midfield seemed ok in both games, our defense seemed ok in both games, our forward line which i thought was quite dangerous is just not working.

dont get it.

 

[stavro#4]

Well if you going to wrap up paddy it’s fairly harsh to have a go at Webster. Those 2 comments suggests you have your blinkers on. I don’t know about you but the job of a marking forward who has no defensive pressure must be kicking goals. Paddy has not done that yet in 3 games. No point in saying he was inaccurate because his job is to be accurate. Webster kicked well yesterday and was pretty good. Armo was poor and doesn’t deserve his spot in the side


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Blinkers would suggest that if you got the ball 50 times in 2 weeks you would be able to create attacks from the back half .... Webster seems to have missed what the point of being a rebounding defender is...

And yes Einstein Paddy should be able to take pack marks. Let me boot the ball in the air and have 2-3 people crash into and see how many you pluck or kick it 5 meters away from you and hope you go fetch...

Your comments are lacking simple understanding and that's ok. Just try learn along the way sunshine.

 

[stavro#4]

I am in the persist with Paddy camp. Just such a shame he couldn't slot the goal after taking that leading mark, would have done wonders for him.

Sadly I knew things weren't going to turn out well when Blake, usually such an accurate goal kicker, missed a few of his.

And what an indictment on all our other players when a debutant can go back and coolly slot a goal.

i didnt mind Websters game, thought his kicking was very good, but Armo has to go the way of Gilbo. He's just not up to it.

I had everything crossed that Paddy would nail it.

He needs games. So strap him in and feed him games and let him develop.

 

[plugger66]

Blinkers would suggest that if you got the ball 50 times in 2 weeks you would be able to create attacks from the back half .... Webster seems to have missed what the point of being a rebounding defender is...

And yes Einstein Paddy should be able to take pack marks. Let me boot the ball in the air and have 2-3 people crash into and see how many you pluck or kick it 5 meters away from you and hope you go fetch...

Your comments are lacking simple understanding and that's ok. Just try learn along the way sunshine.

What a pathetic condescending post. Did mg tell you to write that?

Anyway I reckon I understand the game more than I thought if you reckon I don’t. Gives me more confidence now


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[sunny3193]

In a realistic world -

Out -
Adam Kingsley (Transition coach)
Rohan Welsh (Forward Line)
Aaron Hamill (VFL Development)

In -
Brett Ratten - Hawthorn (Transition coach)
Paul Corrigan - Essendon (Forward line)
Xavier Clarke - Richmond (VFL Development)

Check the VFL score yesterday and read the thread.
Sammy is staying at Sandringham.

 

[stavro#4]

What a pathetic condescending post. Did mg tell you to write that?

Anyway I reckon I understand the game more than I thought if you reckon I don’t. Gives me more confidence now


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What does he have to do with this? I think your a little jealous ghost gets more love then you and knows more about what's going on then you too .

Your bagging a forward who is dependent on his teammates giving him half a chance to beat his man. Why not put the blame on those who aren't executing simple passes to him. Then judge the pig.

That would show more football nous then having a crack at Paddy