Opinion Sack Hinkley 6 - Kochblocked

[finbarr]

I understand how most of us are battered and bruised after years of this rubbish, but if you actually sit back and look at it as objectively as possible, taking the emotion out, I don't see how you can come to the conclusion he'll be coaching here in 2023.

 

[AdamMarrett]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against. Up until this year, Geelong has missed finals only once and Richmond and Sydney have missed finals twice - with Sydney being top four 4 times, Richmond being top four 4 times and Geelong being top four a staggering 7 times during this time period.

I've got a better idea - let's compare Hardwick 2010-2016 to Hinkley 2013-2019. You know, when Richmond was actually s**t. That's a more fair comparison

Richmond

2010 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 2-10 vs top eight (16.7%)
2011 - 0-4 vs top four (0%), 1-9-1 vs top eight (13.6%)
2012 - 2-2 vs top four (50%), 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2013 - 2-3 vs top four (40%) , 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2014 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-2 vs top four (60%), 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2016 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)

Total: vs top four 9/33 (27.3%), vs top eight 17.5/69 (25.4%)

By comparison, in the same time period (seven years):

Port Adelaide

2013 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 2-6 vs top eight (25%)
2014 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 6-7 vs top eight (46.2%)
2016 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)
2017 - 0-5 vs top four (0%) 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2018 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2019 - 1-5 vs top four (16.7%), 3-7 vs top eight (30%)

Total: vs top four 9/38 (23.7%), vs top eight 20/68 (29.4%)

So let's get this straight - in Hinkley's first seven years, even with that bullshit 2016 season, he won just as many games as Hardwick did in his first seven years (but played 5 more matches against top four teams) + won 2.5 more matches than Hardwick against top eight teams playing the same number of games. Both Richmond and Port played finals three times during this period.

The difference? When Richmond dropped out of finals contention in 2016 after playing three finals series in a row, Hardwick knew his list was good enough to win a flag in 2017, because in 2015 they had gone 60% against the top four and 44% against the top eight.

In 2015, we had done something similar (50% against the top four and 46% against the top eight), so when we had our drop off in 2016 it was only natural that we expected to challenge for a flag alongside Richmond. But instead, we went 0% against the top four and 22% against the top eight. That's when we knew we had to start again.

No no & no again. Stop cherry picking stats that give you the impression you are the smartest person in the room or more to the point that suit your agenda.

You are neglecting one small fact with your Hardwick vs Hinkley comparison, it's only a minor detail and may hold some weight or all of the weight if we're being honest. Hardwick has 3 Premierships to Hinkley's 3 lost Preliminary Finals. So go do a stat on that if it suits your agenda. That's the end of the discussion point right there. You can't take out the years Richmond won Premierships to make it favourable to Hinkley, it's not telling the whole truth is it? What you've posted is basically a lie cause you're neglecting what the game is actually all about.

You fill these threads with meaningless stats and utter dribble. It doesn't prove anything it's just stats with the most important factors taken out to suit your point of view.

 

[Ray Nolan]

OK, that reaction is starting to give me hope that we might finally get the news we've been craving soon ...

 

[JimmyBC]

I'm getting all sexed up here! please let there be a follow through

 

[El_Scorcho]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against. Up until this year, Geelong has missed finals only once and Richmond and Sydney have missed finals twice - with Sydney being top four 4 times, Richmond being top four 4 times and Geelong being top four a staggering 7 times during this time period.

He compared the other long serving coaches. The fact that the other long serving coaches have been dominant is probably because coaches like Hinkley usually get sacked a long time before they get to 10 years.

Ken Hinkley is the gold standard for long term mediocrity. Everyone else who is allowed to coach a club this long has won something.

 

[JUSTWORK]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against.

Normally you have to actually deliver results to a pretty high standard to survive as a coach for 10 years.

 

[MrMeaner]

Is anyone taking odds on Ken immediately jumping on the phone to his agent?

 

[Schulzenfest]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against.

Yes, let's. Because it's Ken's job to make us one of the most dominant clubs in the league, and if he can't do that after 10 years we need to sack him and find someone who can.

 

[malcheski]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against. Up until this year, Geelong has missed finals only once and Richmond and Sydney have missed finals twice - with Sydney being top four 4 times, Richmond being top four 4 times and Geelong being top four a staggering 7 times during this time period.

I've got a better idea - let's compare Hardwick 2010-2016 to Hinkley 2013-2019. You know, when Richmond was actually s**t. That's a more fair comparison

Richmond

2010 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 2-10 vs top eight (16.7%)
2011 - 0-4 vs top four (0%), 1-9-1 vs top eight (13.6%)
2012 - 2-2 vs top four (50%), 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2013 - 2-3 vs top four (40%) , 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2014 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-2 vs top four (60%), 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2016 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)

Total: vs top four 9/33 (27.3%), vs top eight 17.5/69 (25.4%)

By comparison, in the same time period (seven years):

Port Adelaide

2013 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 2-6 vs top eight (25%)
2014 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 6-7 vs top eight (46.2%)
2016 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)
2017 - 0-5 vs top four (0%) 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2018 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2019 - 1-5 vs top four (16.7%), 3-7 vs top eight (30%)

Total: vs top four 9/38 (23.7%), vs top eight 20/68 (29.4%)

So let's get this straight - in Hinkley's first seven years, even with that bullshit 2016 season, he won just as many games as Hardwick did in his first seven years (but played 5 more matches against top four teams) + won 2.5 more matches than Hardwick against top eight teams playing the same number of games. Both Richmond and Port played finals three times during this period.

The difference? When Richmond dropped out of finals contention in 2016 after playing three finals series in a row, Hardwick knew his list was good enough to win a flag in 2017, because in 2015 they had gone 60% against the top four and 44% against the top eight.

In 2015, we had done something similar (50% against the top four and 46% against the top eight), so when we had our drop off in 2016 it was only natural that we expected to challenge for a flag alongside Richmond. But instead, we went 0% against the top four and 22% against the top eight. That's when we knew we had to start again.

You do realise those clubs are the only ones with coaches who have coached as long, if not longer, than Donuts right? It's literally the fairest comparison to make.

 

[Janus]

He compared the other long serving coaches. The fact that the other long serving coaches have been dominant is probably because coaches like Hinkley usually get sacked a long time before they get to 10 years.

Ken Hinkley is the gold standard for long term mediocrity. Everyone else who is allowed to coach a club this long has won something.

Sydney and Geelong were already good teams before Longmire and Scott came along. Completely unfair to compare their coaching records or the premierships that they won with them.

 

[fergulator72]

Guess Koch hasn't guaranteed him next year if he didn't want to talk about it

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Honestly, if you're Sam Hayes and you hear this line being trotted out what do you do?

 

[Marmozet]

He’s like a glorified Brad Scott.

 

[JimmyBC]

Honestly, if you're Sam Hayes and you hear this line being trotted out what do you do?

Put up a Sack Hinkley sticker.

 

[Us against the rest]

Honestly, if you're Sam Hayes and you hear this line being trotted out what do you do?

Wait for the new coach and and give donuts the bird on his way out.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Sydney and Geelong were already good teams before Longmire and Scott came along. Completely unfair to compare their coaching records or the premierships that they won with them.

And Port didn't have a "good" playing list with the likes of Boak, Gray, Westhoff, Ebert, Wingard, Schulz, Wines, Harlett, Trengove, Monfries?

 

[Visenfest]

Just need Koch not to panic here. No meetings in anyone's home, etc.

 

[fergulator72]

What a wuss,that's how he's run the club,with zero criticism from assistant coaches and players

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[FishingRick04]

Sydney and Geelong were already good teams before Longmire and Scott came along. Completely unfair to compare their coaching records or the premierships that they won with them.

Come on. Using that logic and history those teams should have fallen off a cliff by now. Especially Geelong with less support mechanisms to Sydney

 

[philreich]

Difference is the widespread want for change and really his results say we haven't made a GF in 10 years, you can't hide from that.

It's like they all want to keep him employed so he can join the 'club' by winning a flag no mater how long it takes.

If he is still here next year my guess is we bounce back and he's signed for two more - I just don't see the club thinking that's a great idea, stickers will turn into Billboards.

If we're waiting until Ken wins a flag, most of us won't be alive to see it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball if the soft cap works the same for all how come the Hawks can pay Clarko this year and Mitchell and we can’t do the same next year if we sacked Ken?

Anyone? Figured you’d know REH

Pay the tax.

Go $200k over the footy dept soft cap, the tax rate is 100% so pay a $200k fine.

Thats why its a soft cap.

They sold 2 pokie venues that will net them $40m after they pay off the $12m+ loans to buy the machines and build the venue at Caroline Springs in 2010, so they have the money. Think it was down to $7m when they sold their assets.

Your post shows too many people just lap up media talk and dont do any independent thinking.

I expect Collingwood, Richmond and West Coast to break the cap limit and pay the tax, if not this year then next year. They are pissed off it hasnt gone up enough. There are a couple of other clubs who could join them.

 

[Harlott]

Is this the crux of it with Hinkley? Everyone is too scared to ask a tough question because they suspect they’ll get that reaction? Assistants that have left?
You’d hope it hasn’t influenced decision making at the club over the period.

 

[Kingfish73]

Guess Koch hasn't guaranteed him next year if he didn't want to talk about it

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Dead man walking. I am getting excited

 

[Janus]

And Port didn't have a "good" playing list with the likes of Boak, Gray, Westhoff, Ebert, Wingard, Schulz, Wines, Harlett, Trengove, Monfries?

Not like Geelong and Sydney, no. Both Longmire and Scott took over in 2011. One won a flag in 2011, the other in 2012. That doesn't happen unless you've already got a premiership calibre list and the only thing you need to do is make tactical changes.

 

[Duck Farmer]

LOL. Let's pick the three most dominant clubs over the past 13 years to do a comparison against. Up until this year, Geelong has missed finals only once and Richmond and Sydney have missed finals twice - with Sydney being top four 4 times, Richmond being top four 4 times and Geelong being top four a staggering 7 times during this time period.

I've got a better idea - let's compare Hardwick 2010-2016 to Hinkley 2013-2019. You know, when Richmond was actually s**t. That's a more fair comparison

Richmond

2010 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 2-10 vs top eight (16.7%)
2011 - 0-4 vs top four (0%), 1-9-1 vs top eight (13.6%)
2012 - 2-2 vs top four (50%), 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2013 - 2-3 vs top four (40%) , 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2014 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-2 vs top four (60%), 4-5 vs top eight (44.4%)
2016 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)

Total: vs top four 9/33 (27.3%), vs top eight 17.5/69 (25.4%)

By comparison, in the same time period (seven years):

Port Adelaide

2013 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 2-6 vs top eight (25%)
2014 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2015 - 3-3 vs top four (50%), 6-7 vs top eight (46.2%)
2016 - 0-5 vs top four (0%), 1-9 vs top eight (10%)
2017 - 0-5 vs top four (0%) 2-7 vs top eight (22.2%)
2018 - 1-4 vs top four (20%), 3-6 vs top eight (33.3%)
2019 - 1-5 vs top four (16.7%), 3-7 vs top eight (30%)

Total: vs top four 9/38 (23.7%), vs top eight 20/68 (29.4%)

So let's get this straight - in Hinkley's first seven years, even with that bullshit 2016 season, he won just as many games as Hardwick did in his first seven years (but played 5 more matches against top four teams) + won 2.5 more matches than Hardwick against top eight teams playing the same number of games. Both Richmond and Port played finals three times during this period.

The difference? When Richmond dropped out of finals contention in 2016 after playing three finals series in a row, Hardwick knew his list was good enough to win a flag in 2017, because in 2015 they had gone 60% against the top four and 44% against the top eight.

In 2015, we had done something similar (50% against the top four and 46% against the top eight), so when we had our drop off in 2016 it was only natural that we expected to challenge for a flag alongside Richmond. But instead, we went 0% against the top four and 22% against the top eight. That's when we knew we had to start again.

Here's my analytical comparison: Caviar Clarkson, Lobster Longmire, Champagne Scott, Hermitage Hardwick, Donuts Hinkley