Opinion Sack Hinkley 9 - I Am Become Donuts, Destroyer Of Ports

[PowerBaz]

The bit that I truly cannot get close to understanding is how the whole greyhound syndicate thing has been under reported (i.e not reported at all). In this day and age I would think the media would be all over it for numerous reasons. It just doesn't seem to be a thing they care about.

Probably common across all clubs?

 

[PowerBaz]

Koch as stated is a statistics man, until we drop off big time he’s happy.

He also uses the Ken and the players relationship talk as a positive, especially bringing new players in.

 

[Capital Power]

LOL ...

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I have watched Caro and Kane talk about Ken and using statistics almost on a Janus type level this week on their Footy Show and Matthew Lloyd was sitting in the corner not wanting to say anything. Lloyd did not want any part of that rubbish. You could tell.

Kane and Gerald were with the weekly Daniel Hoyne segment and Kane went off at the Port supporters and Hoyne had that look in the corner like I'm not going to get into this at all. It was very interesting because Kane said it very strongly but without any real conviction if you know what I mean.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The bit that I truly cannot get close to understanding is how the whole greyhound syndicate thing has been under reported (i.e not reported at all). In this day and age I would think the media would be all over it for numerous reasons. It just doesn't seem to be a thing they care about.

The media's approach to stuff like this always seems to be to keep it under the carpet as much as they can, then if the person in question steps out of line at all, suddenly reveal it as an expose they've only just discovered. It seems to be a way to control people.

 

[Sharaz Jek]

I have watched Caro and Kane talk about Ken and using statistics almost on a Janus type level this week on their Footy Show and Matthew Lloyd was sitting in the corner not wanting to say anything. Lloyd did not want any part of that rubbish. You could tell.

Kane and Gerald were with the weekly Daniel Hoyne segment and Kane went off at the Port supporters and Hoyne had that look in the corner like I'm not going to get into this at all. It was very interesting because Kane said it very strongly but without any real conviction if you know what I mean.

Gerald looked bewildered and confused, but that's his usual response to anything.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

You seem to be confusing assistant and head coach roles here. Someone can be a perfect assistant and still not be head coach material.

Alan Richardson (2013) - went on to coach St Kilda for five years, won one spoon and never made finals. Objectively a worse coach than Ken.

Alan Richardson never had the charisma or leadership qualities to be a head coach, but he was an excellent assistant. After St Kilda he went to Melbourne and played a key role (along with Chaplin and Choco) in the 2021 premiership, after Goodwin had previously underperformed without him. Probably one of the best assistant coaches in the country.

Phil Walsh (2014) - had the crows playing ok at 7-5 before his tragic passing. Could very well have gone on to great things with them, but plenty of coaches have started stronger at new clubs and bombed. Can never know for sure, but for argument sake will give the benefit of the doubt and say he was a genuine gun.

A motivator and leader - built the foundation for the Crows to make a grand final with Pike.

Brett Montgomery (2020, 2021) - overlooked for a number of head coaching jobs from other clubs. Moved on to GWS as an assistant this year and they seem to be doing ok, if not a bit better than expected. Certainly not setting the world on fire though.

Monty was a great defensive line coach, but with too much edge to him to be successful as a head coach in the modern era of coaching. Was a massive failure when he coached our midfield, arguably the worst line coach we've seen in Ken's time.

Jarrad Schofield (2021) - moved to West Coast as an assistant in 2022, and has been part of the coaching staff that has arguably seen the darkest two year period in their history.

Not sure you can pin anything that's happened at West Coast on Jarrad Schofield. Might even regret going there, but had our midfield absolutely humming. Could still make a great head coach one day.

Michael Voss (2015-2021) - Carlton are absolutely rolling, so will happily concede this one, but just two months ago Crazy Vossy wasn’t looking like much chop.

This example doesn't seem as relevant - Voss was at Port during our worst and most wasteful period. He seems to be a good motivator/leader type but needs a strong box around him you would think to be a head coach.

To be clear, I didn’t want Ken re-signed and would have preferred Carr - but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence here that Ken had some kind of elite brains trust he was sponging off of, except for Voss and MAYBE Walsh. If anything, most of their efforts since leaving Port suggests they were overhyped by the supporter-base.

There are realistically only two blokes (maybe three) that people have suggested could have been worthy of interviewing as head coach at Port - Carr, Schofield and maybe Voss. The others are just indicative of a good coaching box, where you have people playing their roles.

To put it this way, think about this coaching box:
Senior Coach: Phil Walsh
Senior Assistant: Alan Richardson
Forwards Coach: Chad Cornes
Midfield Coach: Josh Carr
Defensive Coach: Brett Montgomery
Director of Football/Boundary Daddy: Michael Voss

That's a fully stocked coaching box that could challenge. People in roles that make sense (people might disagree on Cornes but I couldn't think of any decent forwards coach we've had). It works in the same way as having forwards play forwards and defenders play in defense, and means if there is a weak link cough Hinkley cough that they can be covered by the rest of the group.

Its also why I always struggled to blame Hinkley for 2022 - that coaching box was as bad a box as I've ever seen at any club, with Cornes failing in defence, Monty failing in the midfield, Bassett failing up forward, and then no senior assistant or additional support whatsoever. Prime Leigh Matthews fails with that box.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Gerald looked bewildered and confused, but that's his usual response to anything.

Yeah it is.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Lenswood's become an apocalyptic wasteland after all the cherries he's picked.

That's an absolute cracker.

 

[PortPortPort]

Should get elspeth onto it.

Edit: the greyhound syndicate she loves a juicy...story.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

That is included in the 5-10% figure. 3200 of a 32k crowd, 4000 of a 40k crowd if another 800 have stopped attending games...it's all the same. No one in my section cheered for Carr, which is why I can tell you what it was really like with no fear or favour. In terms of support, where a mark of the year or goal of the year is a 10, it was a 1.

TeeKray had a salient insight the other day - the club just doesn't rate courting the memberships of people who think they know better and are constantly bitching about this and that anymore. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. Oh, they will take on board the displeasure of a place like this and put it in the CONS column of re-signing Hinkley - I believe them when they say they listened to the objections - but at the end of the day when they are averaging 37k crowds and most of you have already dropped off as members, the threats of not signing up again next year when you didn't sign up this year are pretty hollow.

There's only one bullet in the membership cancellation chamber, and quite a few of you have either fired it or the club knows you won't. And even if you go, do you seriously believe they are going to have a hard time attracting new support with Butters, Rozee, Horne-Francis and Bergman on the team?

The club has moved beyond being beholden to the threats of a petulant fan base.

Janus, I just wanted to say I've enjoyed a few of your posts recently.

For mine, this doesn't really say much about a 'petulant' fanbase but more it is a statement of an intransigent appartchik.

The only reason the Port Adelaide Football Club as the only non-franchise is in the AFL is because we were winners and by a long way in the SANFL. We have winning pedigree. We dominated the SANFL. There is the Creed. There was accountability. Coaches and players were not as important as the club. If you weren't doing your job well enough, even if you had been a club legend, you moved on. Love, sacrifice, accountability. These are the values that got us to be in the AFL. The reason the fanbase loves the club so much is that they identify with those values. Times were glorious and the club was run in the best way possible for success.

The values of Koch, Hinkley, Richardson, Davies, etc is not about winning as such. It is about keeping your cushy job. It is about work life balance. It is about moving the goal posts further and further apart. It is about being selfish. It is not really being about winning but winning enough. Its about winning enough and I'm happy with that so why isn't everyone else. Its about media spin. It is about being unaccountable and loving it. The club is there for me to be loved and appreciated. You should be happy with what we put on the table. You should enjoy and take all of our lies.

So we have a fanbase that holds on to the values that got us where we are today, in the AFL. In a way, we should feel very lucky. The thing is, anyone, and I mean anyone, in SA who knows footy knows these are values that made the club what it is.

The current administration doesn't hold the same values. They remind me of the Ninthmond administration. Not very good at their jobs and holding on for dear life. And very unhappy to be reminded of how poor they are at their jobs. Because there is no accountability within the walls of the club they are generally immune to criticism so when it comes thick and fast and deservedly so, it is exceptionally hard for them to take. Usually this would come from the footballing media but they are just another extension of the propoganda of the club. So they feel attacked. Vilified. And worse, defamed.

So in the end, Koch is systematically destroying a once great football culture, possibly one of the greatest football cultures in the world with his Northern Beach non-football, Sunrise, the Sound of Music, I love the Swannies when it suits, bourgeoisie mediocre filth.

There are bound to be clashes between these two parties with different values.

If, and I say if, not when, if we get some real Port people back at the club, we will be back on track, we will be back to winning but not as much as we are use to, and the stained years of Koch and Hinkley will be laughed at like the Great Depression it was.

 

[stokholme]

Cool so what do the members get out of it then?

In this dystopian view of things we are merely wallets on legs and hey if they do manage to jag a flag cool happy days if not oh well the boys had some fun <insert some Insta content here ️

It won’t last Janus, the footy wheel inevitably turns and if the club thinks when it’s a 15th placed port vs GWS on a Sunday night in July the theatre goers will stick well then they might regret shoving those people out the door

The rusted on ones like us are the ones who carry through those times when everybody knows the season is on a hiding to nothing

I can’t wait frankly they need to remember why memebers are important in the first place

This should be stickied. Perfectly said.

 

[Vagabond0]

I always see this notion suggested on here that it’s always been the ‘mastermind highly rated assistant’ that was really behind Ken’s good seasons - but is that really true?

Have any of them really gone on to do anything of note as head coaches and prove that they were worth that level of hype?

Notable “highly rated assistants” that were said to be the real brains behind the organisation include:

Alan Richardson (2013) - went on to coach St Kilda for five years, won one spoon and never made finals. Objectively a worse coach than Ken.

Phil Walsh (2014) - had the crows playing ok at 7-5 before his tragic passing. Could very well have gone on to great things with them, but plenty of coaches have started stronger at new clubs and bombed. Can never know for sure, but for argument sake will give the benefit of the doubt and say he was a genuine gun.

Brett Montgomery (2020, 2021) - overlooked for a number of head coaching jobs from other clubs. Moved on to GWS as an assistant this year and they seem to be doing ok, if not a bit better than expected. Certainly not setting the world on fire though.

Jarrad Schofield (2021) - moved to West Coast as an assistant in 2022, and has been part of the coaching staff that has arguably seen the darkest two year period in their history.

Michael Voss (2015-2021) - Carlton are absolutely rolling, so will happily concede this one, but just two months ago Crazy Vossy wasn’t looking like much chop.

To be clear, I didn’t want Ken re-signed and would have preferred Carr - but there doesn’t seem to be much evidence here that Ken had some kind of elite brains trust he was sponging off of, except for Voss and MAYBE Walsh. If anything, most of their efforts since leaving Port suggests they were overhyped by the supporter-base.

Not hard to see how the thought exists.

2015 and 16 drop after losing Richardson then Walsh.

20 and 21 uptick after picking up Schofield and Monty followed by 22 drop after losing Schofield, Monty and Voss.

23 Josh comes back.

Agree though, I am of the opinion it's the collective that matters and a great assistant doesn't necessarily equal awesome senior coach.

Then there's the equation of how many assistants do you need and what calibre of assistants is required to help explain to Ken that half back flankers bombing it long into our forward 50 to either our smallest forward or more likely oppo ruckman will not eventually work.

 

[Janus]

I'm convinced that everyone who reckons Ken's a good coach has no ******* idea and only a passing interest in football.

Their minds can't compute the history stuff about him breaking records for tenure without achieving anything.

All they see is port making the finals occasionally, being non threatening, and not finishing in the bottom 4.

Even now you look at the main board and we aren't rated a contender at all. When we won 13 in a row it was all "Collingwood, how far?". We aren't treated as a threat because they know we aren't.

That shitbird korns didn't even have us in the 8. And yet he's been hinkley's biggest cheerleader.

They see the goofy country bloke yukking it up with the media *******s and go haw haw this ken bloke is great

If you make any sort of analysis it's clear he's shithouse, but the media has utterly failed to do that because they're all pissing in kens pocket.

Chris Scott says Ken is a good coach, but you rate the opinion of a bunch of random people on an Internet forum who, let’s be clear, aren’t in any danger of splitting the atom any time soon.

Only a midwit believes that consensus equates to truth.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Chris Scott says Ken is a good coach,

Chris Scott has kicked the shit out of Ken's side about 70% of the time they've played against each other.

Chris Scott doesn't actually think Ken is a good coach, he's just saying what his media training tells him to say. Have you ever heard an AFL coach say anything other than this week's opponents are going to be a tough battle, this opposing player is a good player, or this opposing coach is a good coach?

 

[Pappagallo]

Chris Scott says Ken is a good coach, but you rate the opinion of a bunch of random people on an Internet forum who, let’s be clear, aren’t in any danger of splitting the atom any time soon.

Only a midwit believes that consensus equates to truth.

Have you ever heard a current head coach publicly lance one of their contemporaries? I honestly can’t think of one example. Any chance Scott is just extending some professional courtesy?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Have you ever heard a current head coach publicly lance one of their contemporaries? I honestly can’t think of one example. Any chance Scott is just extending some professional courtesy?

His argument holds about as much force as 'the players haven't publicly called for Hinkley to be sacked so he must be a good coach!' Just completely and utterly ignoring the realities of how the media works. And then he accuses of us 'not going to split the atom any time soon'.

 

[Interstater]

Cool so what do the members get out of it then?

In this dystopian view of things we are merely wallets on legs and hey if they do manage to jag a flag cool happy days if not oh well the boys had some fun <insert some Insta content here ️

It won’t last Janus, the footy wheel inevitably turns and if the club thinks when it’s a 15th placed port vs GWS on a Sunday night in July the theatre goers will stick well then they might regret shoving those people out the door

The rusted on ones like us are the ones who carry through those times when everybody knows the season is on a hiding to nothing

I can’t wait frankly they need to remember why members are important in the first place

The disappointing thing is it was only 3 years ago that they were all spewing wisdoms about there being no game without the fans, and yet here, one lap around the bowl, they have forgotten that.

The club had better hope the happy clappers have some iron to rust on to, as they have WD40'd away the rest of us for 2+ years.

Enjoy your generational change as you become Woodville'd, not that you would understand what that means.
There is clearly no one in control of this club anymore that truly understands what it means to be Port Adelaide.

The club has been invaded and white-anted by losers, and anyone that shows some Port gumption (D Cahill, Tredrea, Fiacchi) is shown the door quick smart or kept busy with cushy media jobs (Ginever) to shut them up.

 

[Pappagallo]

His argument holds about as much force as 'the players haven't publicly called for Hinkley to be sacked so he must be a good coach!' Just completely and utterly ignoring the realities of how the media works. And then he accuses of us 'not going to split the atom any time soon'.

Sorry don’t have time for that science fiction baloney I’m too busy talking to the dead through my tavli board.

 

[Janus]

Chris Scott has kicked the s**t out of Ken's side about 70% of the time they've played against each other.

Chris Scott doesn't actually think Ken is a good coach, he's just saying what his media training tells him to say. Have you ever heard an AFL coach say anything other than this week's opponents are going to be a tough battle, this opposing player is a good player, or this opposing coach is a good coach?

Except for the times when it has counted e.g. in finals.

 

[TeeKray]

The most disingenuous thing is the anti Hinkley fringe looney v pro Hinkley sensible and rational people narrative.

The actual divide is just people who want to and expect to win premierships v people who think it would be kind of nice to win premierships but also think it's a bit too difficult for a little battler club.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Except for the times when it has counted e.g. in finals.

Really?

This is the sentence that you, a defender of Hinkley's continued employment, are going to post in the thread about sacking Hinkley?

Are you 100% sure that this is the angle you want to take?

 

[Janus]

Really?

This is the sentence that you, a defender of Hinkley's continued employment, are going to post in the thread about sacking Hinkley?

Are you 100% sure that this is the angle you want to take?

I'm not taking any angle on 'defending Hinkley' - you misunderstand what my original post is if you think that.

My post was about thinking that because a bunch of random people on an Internet forum don't rate Port as a premiership contender, or aren't wanting Hinkley as a coach, or agree/disagree with whatever it is you want to talk about, doesn't mean it's some established fact. The consensus centuries ago was that the world was flat...that didn't make it true. The consensus at one point in time was a geocentric rather than heliocentric model of the solar system - that also didn't make it true.

 

[chachi11]

The most disingenuous thing is the anti Hinkley fringe looney v pro Hinkley sensible and rational people narrative.

The actual divide is just people who want to and expect to win premierships v people who think it would be kind of nice to win premierships but also think it's a bit too difficult for a little battler club.

Koch has conditioned the supporters that winning finals is a lottery and as long as the club qualify every now and then, it's job done!
I guess listening to the drivel for 11 years has that affect on some.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

Im going to assume/guess a few things:

*The timing of the announcement of Hinkley was just as much based on Carr withdrawing from Richmond job, than it was announcing it after a win.

*There could have been some pressure from Carr to get this sorted as early as possible to shore up his position (doesn't want to go interstate, doesn't want to go to the Crows....for whatever reason, he doesn't want to take a main-coaching role....can perhaps see that if (when) we crash in finals, the pressure to decide Hinkley's future will intensify greatly, and any potential new coach may demand a very high salary, and his own future could be in some doubt).

*there was perhaps some real likelihood of players leaving if Hinkley isn't there next year so the club sh1t iself

*Carr has received a pay increase, and potentially Donuts has taken a pay cut

*The club want to make use of the perceived combined strengths of Carr and Hinkley

*Carr will be "wheeled out" for press conferences when there is a bad loss to save the farcical scene of Donuts saying he has no idea why we lost.

*Hinkley and Carr are/will be (practically) joint coaches, in everything but official title.

Im saying the above, I personally would have let Ken go after finals, and appointed Carr (or anyone but Hinkley).