No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[phantom13]

Yep - that would be my first question to him when I get on the panel.

Ross, its 5 minutes the 3rd qtr in the GF and Max Gawn has been shoving it down Oliver and Petracca's throats at the centre bounces and the 6/6/6 formation has meant 3 goals in 3 minutes to them and they've hit the lead - so - what's your plan?

Apparently it’s irrelevant cause Tom Stewart plays loose.

 

[stavro#4]

We really have no idea what kind of environment he creates, there are a stack of things that go into selecting a coach, most of us arguing against you aren’t saying Ross isn’t the guy, just that we hope there’s some checks and balances to ensure he is all the things you blindly hope he is.

You think the game hasn’t changed… I don’t know what you watch but it clearly isn’t footy.

4 other clubs all wanted him. 1 gave him the job. 2 begged him to apply. 1 had him second behind Clarko.

Guess they all aren’t watching footy either.

 

[stavro#4]

Apparently it’s irrelevant cause Tom Stewart plays loose.

Nah apparently he was cryogenically frozen and forgot how to coach.

 

[Sippa]

Would those suggesting he’s outdated because he’s last 4 years we’re losing seasons , would they suggest that north shouldn’t have gone for Clarko ?

Before you say 4 premierships vs 0 it’s not about that … Clarko missed 4 out of 5 finals in his last seasons … it’s a reflection of where the lists were at rather than the coaching ability …

You could argue Ross has set freo up for the rise they are undertaking now

 

[phantom13]

4 other clubs all wanted him. 1 gave him the job. 2 begged him to apply. 1 had him second behind Clarko.

Guess they all aren’t watching footy either.

Those two things aren’t necessarily related though.

You think I’m arguing against Ross and I’m not, I’d hazard that those clubs asked him what he brings to footy now, how does he combat the changes, what does he see as the next evolution of football.

He might still be capable, his analysis as a media expert is top shelf, it certainly seems like he sees what’s changed (even if you’re adamant nothing has).

You want 2015 Ross, I want whoever is best in 2023 and that might still be Ross.

 

[theprospect]

theprospect

How’s it garn

 

[gringo2011]

How many of you had TERs of 98?

I know quite a few from 04/05 from Xavs, Scotch, Caulfield, Brighton and Haileybury and none are doing anything other than banking and trading (I think there’s a journo and a lawyer in there).

In any event it’s unlikely too many Xavier graduates with a TER of 98 are chippies. It’s unlikely too many people with a TER of 98 are chippies.

Again, not a shot at chippies, just not a thing that happens too much.

I was lucky to pass year 12, I spent the year going out 7 nights a week and did zero homework. I thought I was going to be a rock star. Broke my mum's heart, she thinks I'm a lot smarter than I am. I just talk shit quite well.

 

[St Neil]

I'm not focusing on any of it, I think it's all irrelevant. I was answering a question as to which I'd prefer to look at and which holds more weight.

The bigger issue is that he hasn't coached at any level in three years and his success came playing a style that's outdated.

I understand where you are coming from George, but for me the issue isn’t the style of football we play because that can be re-designed, modified and replaced.

Lyon will bring standards. Uncompromising standards. He will drill running patterns, team rules and team style. He will demand self sacrifice. He will have difficult conversations. He will enforce a type of team football with buy-in and if players don’t adhere to that then they won’t play.

He will harden us up. He will demand effort every week. He will ensure when all players need to wear one for the team then they commit and sacrifice. He will remove selfishness.

I’ve watched my beloved team since 2012. We have been insipid too often. We haven’t been well coach and well drilled. We have poor skills. We have a crap game plan. We are not developing players to improve individually and as part of a team. I’m not sure if our players care enough or are just not good enough.

I’m sick of it. The Essendon game last year was the final straw for me. It was a gutless and half hearted performance. It upset me. And it has happened far too often since 2012. Our problems are as much about standards as ability.

Brett Ratten seems to be a very good man. A decent person. But he was a poor match day coach and the players never played a fearsome style of football. We were going nowhere with him. Same with Alan Richardson. Same with Scott Watters.

I want my team to be ferocious every week. I want zealotry. I want them to leave everything on the field, win or lose. I’m haven’t been getting that for 10 years, and I’m sick of it. I yearn for the days when we had that.

I don’t know if Ross Lyon will succeed if appointed as coach. But I know he will demand these things. If it doesn’t happen then it’s the list rather than him, and we can then start again. But I want to find out and I think Lyon gives us our best chance of getting the answer. And maybe he will re-set the standards we need in order to succeed like the top clubs.

Sorry for the rant. I enjoy reading your posts.

 

[MrFoster]

In the case of choosing between 2011 or 2019 as evidence to go off of, I would choose more recent, I see less relevance in what happened 10 years ago. Regardless, he's been out of the game three years, that's ultimately my main concern. Even 2019 is an age ago, not to mention that he hasn't been successful since 2015.

So there's that, plus the fact that I desperately do not want us to * this up by rolling out another tried coach who most likely will only get us so far before more inevitable change.

There’s no safe bet.. whether it’s tried or untried coach, at least Ross is an known quantity and has quality that we are lacking (hard edge, ruthless).. Yze can come in and also stuff up just like other untried coaches we previously hired: Tim Watson, Scott Watters and Richo.

For those who are defending Ratten, he had us play a brand that is so negative and basically makes most of our players look like unskilled country footballers.. We won some early games on the back of centre bounce brilliance of Ryder and King/Higgins form in 1-2 quarters.. We relied on pressure (easy score) and centre bounce clearances, that’s it.. other than that, we looked 2nd rate and poorly coached.. It was exactly same as Richo years.. I’m glad the football club had the balls to admit they made a mistake extending Ratts and is now doing everything to be successful on and off the field..

It’s not a guarantee we’ll succeed, but at least we’re trying.. Ratts maybe is a nice bloke, but he really has no idea when it comes to coaching, I would be super frustrated playing under him, because he is setting the team up to fail with his tactics or there lack of. I wish him luck anyways.

Also let’s not pretend Yze, Lappin are the bee’s knees, they are also big risks if not bigger risks.. for every Clarkson, Macrae, there’s 2 of Richo, Watters..

 

[stavro#4]

Those two things aren’t necessarily related though.

You think I’m arguing against Ross and I’m not, I’d hazard that those clubs asked him what he brings to footy now, how does he combat the changes, what does he see as the next evolution of football.

He might still be capable, his analysis as a media expert is top shelf, it certainly seems like he sees what’s changed (even if you’re adamant nothing has).

You want 2015 Ross, I want whoever is best in 2023 and that might still be Ross.

I want Ross.

You blokes are sticking years on him like a wine and determining which vintage was good or not.

I want the whole hog and everything he brings.

I’ll even cop no finals next year - because I’ll end the season very clear about our list and needs going forward + direction.

 

[Mat Mann]

Good to finally hear the story, although I'm not quite sure who all the names are haha.

Does it sound like the Saints hierarchy at the time were a bunch of tools, screwed him around for 12 months, leaked stuff to the media, and Lyon couldn't trust them anymore? If so, I'm pretty amazed he's even considering coaching us again! But he's smart enough to know those people have left.

the unspoken part was that we had no money and couldn't pay what he wanted

 

[hayes]

The things that still work now Ross was doing 13 years ago. Small pressure forwards with goals being a bonus from them, obviously good defence always having a spare (basically the anti Ratten), pressure all over the ground and from memory we were high in contested ball when we were flying. If we start doing those things consistently the improvement will be through the roof.

 

[phantom13]

Nah apparently he was cryogenically frozen and forgot how to coach.

Given he didn’t coach when that rule was in he wouldn’t forget it would he?

 

[sauce_head]

Yep - that would be my first question to him when I get on the panel.

Ross, its 5 minutes the 3rd qtr in the GF and Max Gawn has been shoving it down Oliver and Petracca's throats at the centre bounces and the 6/6/6 formation has meant 3 goals in 3 minutes to them and they've hit the lead - so - what's your plan?

He’d say “at least we are in the grand final, but I’d do this…”

 

[stavro#4]

I like him because he doesn't accept mediocrity from his players. I'm of the belief we have a top 4 capable list, they're just not committed to playing to the best of their ability right now. Why would they when they get hugs and positive affirmations from Ratten? When they can rock up to pre-season training in whatever condition they like. Ross won't accept that.

Either the players buy in, or they're playing VFL. Who else remembers when he dropped Milne, Dal Santo and someone else I can't remember? Best way to kick them into gear, and it's a trick Ratten never tried - unless you're a fringe 22 player, that is.

Mowman shared a story the other day. it’s ****ing laughable how Ratten was when I was reading it.

Wont share it as its not my story. So I hope Mow shares.

 

[Munga]

the unspoken part was that we had no money and couldn't pay what he wanted

That would be a hurdle yeah haha. Is it really that much though? A coach contract would be somewhere between one average player's salary to a gun's salary. How could we not afford one player salary back then?

 

[George]

I understand where you are coming from George, but for me the issue isn’t the style of football we play because that can be re-designed, modified and replaced.

Lyon will bring standards. Uncompromising standards. He will drill running patterns, team rules and team style. He will demand self sacrifice. He will have difficult conversations. He will enforce a type of team football with buy-in and if players don’t adhere to that then they won’t play.

He will harden us up. He will demand effort every week. He will ensure when all players need to wear one for the team then they commit and sacrifice. He will remove selfishness.

I’ve watched my beloved team since 2012. We have been insipid too often. We haven’t been well coach and well drilled. We have poor skills. We have a crap game plan. We are not developing players to improve individually and as part of a team. I’m not sure if our players care enough or are just not good enough.

I’m sick of it. The Essendon game last year was the final straw for me. It was a gutless and half hearted performance. It upset me. And it has happened far too often since 2012. Our problems are as much about standards as ability.

Brett Ratten seems to be a very good man. A decent person. But he was a poor match day coach and the players never played a fearsome style of football. We were going nowhere with him. Same with Alan Richardson. Same with Scott Watters.

I want my team to be ferocious every week. I want zealotry. I want them to leave everything on the field, win or lose. I’m haven’t been getting that for 10 years, and I’m sick of it. I yearn for the days when we had that.

I don’t know if Ross Lyon will succeed if appointed as coach. But I know he will demand these things. If it doesn’t happen then it’s the list rather than him, and we can then start again. But I want to find out and I think Lyon gives us our best chance of getting the answer. And maybe he will re-set the standards we need in order to succeed like the top clubs.

Sorry for the rant. I enjoy reading your posts.

Enjoy reading yours too mate. I get where people are coming from. Just think we can get the same ruthlessness and hard edge from someone who's currently coaching and in a winning environment. My point I guess is that Ross isn't the only answer.

 

[Sun Ra]

e to suggest this with any certainty over any potential candidate. Stuffthat happened 10 years ago is great but lots changes over time.
We love him for how far he got us but if his name was Adam Smith with the same record this would be an entirely different conversation.

Quote: "empirical evidence" ....... last time I heard this phrase is was from this dickwad .......

 

[stavro#4]

The things that still work now Ross was doing 13 years ago. Small pressure forwards with goals being a bonus from them, obviously good defence always having a spare (basically the anti Ratten), pressure all over the ground and from memory we were high in contested ball when we were flying. If we start doing those things consistently the improvement will be through the roof.

Nah games different.

6-6-6 has changed the game. He won’t know what hit him.

Also, he is now an idiot in coaching terms because he hasn’t had a gig in 3 seasons.

 

[George]

There’s no safe bet.. whether it’s tried or untried coach, at least Ross is an known quantity and has quality that we are lacking (hard edge, ruthless).. Yze can come in and also stuff up just like other untried coaches we previously hired: Tim Watson, Scott Watters and Richo.

For those who are defending Ratten, he had us play a brand that is so negative and basically makes most of our players look like unskilled country footballers.. We won some early games on the back of centre bounce brilliance of Ryder and King/Higgins form in 1-2 quarters.. We relied on pressure (easy score) and centre bounce clearances, that’s it.. other than that, we looked 2nd rate and poorly coached.. It was exactly same as Richo years.. I’m glad the football club had the balls to admit they made a mistake extending Ratts and is now doing everything to be successful on and off the field..

It’s not a guarantee we’ll succeed, but at least we’re trying.. Ratts maybe is a nice bloke, but he really has no idea when it comes to coaching, I would be super frustrated playing under him, because he is setting the team up to fail with his tactics or there lack of. I wish him luck anyways.

Also let’s not pretend Yze, Lappin are the bee’s knees, they are also big risks if not bigger risks.. for every Clarkson, Macrae, there’s 2 of Richo, Watters..

I think Lappin is more risk but more reward than Ross. But I've gone over it for a while now so I will leave it there and just hope we make the right decision and back us in regardless. Interested to see how the next two weeks play out.

 

[phantom13]

I want Ross.

You blokes are sticking years on him like a wine and determining which vintage was good or not.

I want the whole hog and everything he brings.

I’ll even cop no finals next year - because I’ll end the season very clear about our list and needs going forward + direction.

We’re all cherry picking stastitics to support our argument. It’s just that your argument is Ross is the guy regardless of anything.

It’s myopic and I don’t want any part of that.

You don’t even know at this point if he wants to coach us but you’ve already anointed him… you don’t see some issue with that?

Be all in on him, convince yourself he’s the best option of anyone in the last 20 years but at least consider that he has some flaws and he’s had 3-8 years to iron them out and learn from them. If he hasn’t then he’s not the guy for me.

 

[moirae42]

If he comes in, he is coach until he is not...

I mean, long term...five plus years unless he completely shits the bed.

 

[phantom13]

Nah games different.

6-6-6 has changed the game. He won’t know what hit him.

Also, he is now an idiot in coaching terms because he hasn’t had a gig in 3 seasons.

This is the most extreme version of somethibg that no one has said. If you’re gonna take the piss at least make it mildly accurate to what we’re saying.

 

[Mat Mann]

Mowman shared a story the other day. it’s ******* laughable how Ratten was when I was reading it.

Wont share it as its not my story. So I hope Mow shares.

Mowman tell all

 

[Premium]

I understand where you are coming from George, but for me the issue isn’t the style of football we play because that can be re-designed, modified and replaced.

Lyon will bring standards. Uncompromising standards. He will drill running patterns, team rules and team style. He will demand self sacrifice. He will have difficult conversations. He will enforce a type of team football with buy-in and if players don’t adhere to that then they won’t play.

He will harden us up. He will demand effort every week. He will ensure when all players need to wear one for the team then they commit and sacrifice. He will remove selfishness.

I’ve watched my beloved team since 2012. We have been insipid too often. We haven’t been well coach and well drilled. We have poor skills. We have a crap game plan. We are not developing players to improve individually and as part of a team. I’m not sure if our players care enough or are just not good enough.

I’m sick of it. The Essendon game last year was the final straw for me. It was a gutless and half hearted performance. It upset me. And it has happened far too often since 2012. Our problems are as much about standards as ability.

Brett Ratten seems to be a very good man. A decent person. But he was a poor match day coach and the players never played a fearsome style of football. We were going nowhere with him. Same with Alan Richardson. Same with Scott Watters.

I want my team to be ferocious every week. I want zealotry. I want them to leave everything on the field, win or lose. I’m haven’t been getting that for 10 years, and I’m sick of it. I yearn for the days when we had that.

I don’t know if Ross Lyon will succeed if appointed as coach. But I know he will demand these things. If it doesn’t happen then it’s the list rather than him, and we can then start again. But I want to find out and I think Lyon gives us our best chance of getting the answer. And maybe he will re-set the standards we need in order to succeed like the top clubs.

Sorry for the rant. I enjoy reading your posts.

agree with this