Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Proffessor]

You know Pogba, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Earlier you stated the following:

The post under yours which I quoted said a youth is poor and looks to take us nowhere.

Which simply was not true. I went back and checked the post by SuperMacpherson and it did not say that our 'youth is poor and looks to take us nowhere'.

It said 'There just isn't enough evidence to suggest that our club is heading in the right direction with the youth we have'. A much more reasonable statement to make.

Now, does the fact that I have pointed out a post of yours to be incorrect make anything you now post worthless? Of course not.

Nor does it make your arguments wrong by association. Yet you and others seem to be determined to take this line against Mattdougie.

May I suggest people 'play the ball, not the man'.

 

[Proffessor]

I find it amusing how much discussion there continues to be about McCartney's work as an assistant at Geelong.

If someone has been a senior coach for two and a half years and his supporters still need to use that person's assistant coaching experience to provide supporting evidence of his ability, then it is a serious indictment on his performance in the senior role.

 

[theAthenian]

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

What will be the excuse then?

I feel sorry for those who still believe in false prophets.

Delluded and in denial

Im over dislikeing BMAC

I hate his FCKN guts, that putrid charlatan snakeoil salesman

NOT A COACHES AHOLE

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

Melbourne will be awarded four points, I'll probably have my MCC membership revoked, this thread will increase in size by roughly 15 pages in the 90 minutes following the game and absolutely no change will occur to the coaching panel as some seem to hope.

 

[Super Hans]

You know Pogba, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Earlier you stated the following:



Which simply was not true. I went back and checked the post by SuperMacpherson and it did not say that our 'youth is poor and looks to take us nowhere'.

It said 'There just isn't enough evidence to suggest that our club is heading in the right direction with the youth we have'. A much more reasonable statement to make.

Now, does the fact that I have pointed out a post of yours to be incorrect make anything you now post worthless? Of course not.

Nor does it make your arguments wrong by association. Yet you and others seem to be determined to take this line against Mattdougie.

May I suggest people 'play the ball, not the man'.

You've got to understand why I (and I assume others, can't speak for them) have no respect for anything MattDougie says. Just look how he talks to people when they give their opinion.

Anyone else who doesn't like Macca doesn't get hounded down. It's a respect thing. MattDougie is just an arse to everyone that doesn't hate Macca.

 

[Werewolf]

Have to agree with Mattdougie in that praise from other coaches is meaningless. They will never sink the boot in to a fellow coach, likewise no player will publicly pot his coach. For better or worse we can only look to on field results and reputable commentators.

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

I'll be very pissed off and I suspect most of us will feel the same way

 

[ivan rassmussen]

You know Pogba, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Earlier you stated the following:



Which simply was not true. I went back and checked the post by SuperMacpherson and it did not say that our 'youth is poor and looks to take us nowhere'.

It said 'There just isn't enough evidence to suggest that our club is heading in the right direction with the youth we have'. A much more reasonable statement to make.

Now, does the fact that I have pointed out a post of yours to be incorrect make anything you now post worthless? Of course not.

Nor does it make your arguments wrong by association. Yet you and others seem to be determined to take this line against Mattdougie.

May I suggest people 'play the ball, not the man'.

Proffessor, that is a reasonably stated post. I think, from my neutral point of view, that people are sucked into playing the man because of the constant hysteria in Mattdougie's posts. That, and the fact you conveniently ignored that he plays the man quite often as well. I know people here have their fixed opinions one way or another, but generally are receptive to other people's opinions when discussed rationally, or at least that has been my experience. Also, I feel Mattdougie does himself no favours by seeming to take everything as a personal attack when people point out the shortcomings of his argument. Not his shortcomings, but those of the posts that often contain a rabid repetitiveness.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Im over dislikeing BMAC

I hate his FCKN guts, that putrid charlatan snakeoil salesman

NOT A COACHES AHOLE

A tad harsh.

Come on, Athenian. It's Tuesday. You should have calmed down more than that by now.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

As an oft-stated fence-sitter in terms of the coach's duration of tenure, I would like to observe one thing.

Many pro-coach people say: have patience, wins are not important.

I understand that point of view, but do not subscribe to it.

If a team is improving over time, as well as improving within games (e.g. XXXX beat us by 10 goals last year, but only 3 goals this year), then a natural progression of that improvement as a group is also to win more games, not the same amount or less. This results from a maturing group, a maturing game plan, and theoretically a list that reflects the belief of the coach that the team is building towards where he wants them, so all the elements should come together more often. Any team on an upward trending performance would be measuring that performance on many factors, but surely an improvement in the wins column has to be one of them. The young players are more experienced, the majority of the list have played together over several seasons. There are 18 teams with changing lists, and maturing players. If we can't improve our wins column from year to year, then we are stagnating or going backwards, regardless of how much better we perform against individual opponents on a year-by-year basis.

And by the way, losing to a team this year by less than we lost to them last year is still a loss.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Proffessor, that is a reasonably stated post. I think, from my neutral point of view, that people are sucked into playing the man because of the constant hysteria in Mattdougie's posts. That, and the fact you conveniently ignored that he plays the man quite often as well. I know people here have their fixed opinions one way or another, but generally are receptive to other people's opinions when discussed rationally, or at least that has been my experience. Also, I feel Mattdougie does himself no favours by seeming to take everything as a personal attack when people point out the shortcomings of his argument. Not his shortcomings, but those of the posts that often contain a rabid repetitiveness.

I like Mattdougie. There, I said it.

I disagree with most of what he says. I agree that he is glaringly self-contradictory. He's not exactly Voltaire. And he spends a dangerously high proportion of his life foaming at the mouth - I fear he may have rabies.

But it's all out of love for the club. I sense that he spends every moment of the day loving the club, and i respect that. He'd be the last person to tear up his membership, no matter how much he rants and raves. Footy clubs need people like that. And I don't think he means to be self-contradictory. He strikes me as pretty intellectually honest, actually. He seems happy to admit he's wrong when he realises that he is. He just says a LOT of emotional stuff, and we all are a bit all over the place when we're emotional. I also like that he never gives up and fights for his beliefs - no matter how misguided I think they are.

Bottom line, I think he adds a lot of spice, heart and laughs to this forum. And I'm glad he's here doing it exactly as he does - even though he sometimes makes me tear my hair out!

I say shine on, Mattdougie. And I hope for the club's sake that it's you eventually admitting you're wrong about Macca and not the "kool-aid drinkers"!

 

[theAthenian]

A tad harsh.

Come on, Athenian. It's Tuesday. You should have calmed down more than that by now.

u would think but the more i watch the replays of the first 7 games the more i see glaring coaching mistakes which have made me an extremely angry person.

natuarlly we all want to be wrong but the evidence is no longer circumstancial its tangible and the verdict is out.

so now the rage begins.....

Its bad enough that we are young inexperienced and learning the game and losing is to be expected however

THERE IS NOONE TAGGING THE COACH IN THE COACHES BOX
THE COACH IS NOT CARRYING AN INJURY
NOONE IS TRYING TO SPOIL HIM, BUMP HIM OR CRUNCH HIM IN A TACKLE
HE CANT JUSTIFY MISTAKES _ HE IS NOT ON THE GROUND _ HE HAS THE EASIEST JOB ON MATCHDAY
WATCH AND MAKE MOVES _ ANYMOVES_ ANYTHING FFS

i cant except the last 7 weeks performance from the coach
I love my boys and i will wait for them to become men.

AS FOR THE COACH HE'S LET US DOWN SO MUCH ITS UNEXCUSABLE
HE CANT EXPECT PROFFESIONALISM WHEN HE MAKES AMATUER MISTAKES REPEATEDLY
"DONT DO AS I DO, DO AS I SAY" IS HIS MANTRA

NEXT TIME HE DROPS SOMEONE THEY SHOULD TURN AROUND AND ASK

"I will go to the 2s and learn my craft - WHERE THE **** WILL U GO TO LEARN?"

Lets face it guys - some people have dreams, grand dreams, only to discover they have neither the nous or talent to execute them. THIS IS OUR COACH

I bet my bottom dollar this coach will be sacked because the players will insist on a professional to lead them.

 

[SuperMacPherson]

The last successful key forward "drafted/traded" was Hall.. that is quite sad IMO. We've traditionally been very bad at drafting KPFs & whilst the recent drafts have been compromised with priority picks to the franchise clubs, it doesn't make up for the last 23 years. (Grant was the last true KPF that we drafted young, kept and was a great player)

Exactly Mike +1

 

[SuperMacPherson]

For anyone who thinks we haven't developed, go watch our early games vs Richmond, North, Adelaide last season and compare them to this season.

It's a major improvement.

No, no, no. You just don't get it. Richmond have been a shadow of their 2013 team, North were getting into form after a non-competitive round 1 loss to Essendon and Adelaide are not in great form, as proved in their loss to Melbourne. So, you can't compare the margins alone.

One thing is the structure has changed somewhat. With Crameri coming into the side, Tom Campbell hardly getting a look in, and Jarrad Grant out, with also Clay Smith being sidelined. There is always, 'natural development' in players, no matter which club they play for and who they are.

The deficiencies the team showed against Essendon, i.e. Poor kicking into the forward line, has been there for the last three years. The coaches are responsible for this, because they clearly have not focused on this area enough, hence the lack of improvement.

One credit to the coaching staff for the gameplan of protecting the corridor that worked so well in the first half against Essendon. The fact that the players did not carry it out in the third term, I believe the blame has to sit with the players for this one.

One huge deficiency we have with our structure, is the lack of quality key position talls. Now, as Mike has pointed out earlier in this thread, we, as a club, seem 'scared' to get quality big men to our club. Now, I believe there are a number of factors why this happens. One factor, is the lack of these types in the drafts, another is poor choice of recruiting, and the third point I believe, is what separates us from 'power' clubs like Collingwood. We are simply not ruthless enough at the trade table. Where we should be putting up some real value, i.e. one of our 2nd tier players like a Higgins or a Wood, along with our top pick, and possibly even another player for a key tall.

Essendon are always reluctant to trade players without getting top value in return. I feel we are too 'comfortable' when it comes to trade time.

 

[grassman75]

Melbourne will be awarded four points, I'll probably have my MCC membership revoked, this thread will increase in size by roughly 15 pages in the 90 minutes following the game and absolutely no change will occur to the coaching panel as some seem to hope.

You forgot to add that the MCC Members will be doing their infernal clapping and go no.5 ing to its a grand old flag. Our boys will look gutted as they walk off and Crossy will come over and cheer them up. The sun will come up on Sunday and I will get out of bed, take a shit and read the paper

 

[Dogs54]

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

What will be the excuse then?

I feel sorry for those who still believe in false prophets.

Delluded and in denial

Im over dislikeing BMAC

I hate his FCKN guts, that putrid charlatan snakeoil salesman

NOT A COACHES AHOLE

Everyone is entilted to their opinion and I do not criticise people for voicing their opinion but mate what you have posted is schoolboy stuff and we should all post mature comments. I understand it is an emotional game and you don't like Macca but I think this post is unacceptable.

 

[Mutt]

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

What will be the excuse then?

I feel sorry for those who still believe in false prophets.

Delluded and in denial

Im over dislikeing BMAC

I hate his FCKN guts, that putrid charlatan snakeoil salesman

NOT A COACHES AHOLE

And what will you do if we beat Melbourne on Saturday? Will you take your hateful comments and go somewhere other than BigFooty for a few weeks?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

What will happen if we go down to melbourne on saturday for the second year in a row?

What will be the excuse then?

I feel sorry for those who still believe in false prophets.

Delluded and in denial

Im over dislikeing BMAC

I hate his FCKN guts, that putrid charlatan snakeoil salesman

NOT A COACHES AHOLE

Trent85 Can you please do a graph measuring theAthenian's opinion swings in this thread?

 

[DognBones]

The way some people are writing in this thread, it would have been expected that we should be challenging for the 8 this year. Has anyone suggested that from the end of last season? Not from my reading. The consensus was always that this year was another year of development particularly for the young players and of a more successful game plan. Granted, the jury is still out that this has been achieved but there is still a long way to go in this season and there are signs that progress has been made.
Also ramping up people's expectations, is the fact that in terms of wins, I think we over-achieved last year. Most of us pre-season (2013) would not have expected 8 wins. Now we are expecting more when really, IMO, this team is not an 8+ wins team yet.
Further, McCartney has to work with what he's got and that includes a dearth of key position players and several players who inherently have poor kicking skills.
In terms of longevity of frustration I would out-rank most of you but I am unwilling to reach for the knee-jerk button yet. Let's give McCartney some more time to do what he said he would. If, by season's end his KPIs are mostly in the negative, then we may have to look elsewhere.

 

[_Mike_]

what's the spew like? projectile?

"Pea Soup Special" - Common throughout this thread

 

[DognBones]

"Pea Soup Special" - Common throughout this thread

Not the most subtle point-making images I've seen. Have you got something more 'moderate'?

 

[_Mike_]

Not the most subtle point-making images I've seen. Have you got something more 'moderate'?

Better?

 

[Butane]

The way some people are writing in this thread, it would have been expected that we should be challenging for the 8 this year. Has anyone suggested that from the end of last season? Not from my reading. The consensus was always that this year was another year of development particularly for the young players and of a more successful game plan. Granted, the jury is still out that this has been achieved but there is still a long way to go in this season and there are signs that progress has been made.
Also ramping up people's expectations, is the fact that in terms of wins, I think we over-achieved last year. Most of us pre-season (2013) would not have expected 8 wins. Now we are expecting more when really, IMO, this team is not an 8+ wins team yet.
Further, McCartney has to work with what he's got and that includes a dearth of key position players and several players who inherently have poor kicking skills.
In terms of longevity of frustration I would out-rank most of you but I am unwilling to reach for the knee-jerk button yet. Let's give McCartney some more time to do what he said he would. If, by season's end his KPIs are mostly in the negative, then we may have to look elsewhere.

I agree with you, we overachieved last year and nobody should have expected to play finals this year. But once again, we've turned over half our list since Macca has been in control. There is no excuses for having gaps in the list, poor match day strategy and poor team selection.

These are the issues that scare me the most about McCartney's tenure so far. I accept that with enough time we'll come good, every team should be able to. I just don't think Macca's done anything special that another coach couldn't have so far.

I find other teams praise of McCartney condescending now. Like a an older brother patting his younger brother on the head for trying.

 

[Mutt]

I agree with you, we overachieved last year and nobody should have expected to play finals this year. But once again, we've turned over half our list since Macca has been in control. There is no excuses for having gaps in the list, poor match day strategy and poor team selection.

These are the issues that scare me the most about McCartney's tenure so far. I accept that with enough time we'll come good, every team should be able to. I just don't think Macca's done anything special that another coach couldn't have so far.

I find other teams praise of McCartney condescending now. Like a an older brother patting his younger brother on the head for trying.

Where do you think the 10 or more players aged 22 to 28 that are missing from our list should have materialised from?

We could never have recruited 10 more 'best-22' mature players to fill the holes in our list. We have no choice but to wait another couple of years until our list matures - then we will have a list in balance and we will be finalists in my view. We will play finals in 2016 and probably not before that. A complete rebuild in 4 years and then finals. With a lot of luck we may sneak into the 8 next season.

 

[Butane]

Where do you think the 10 or more players aged 22 to 28 that are missing from our list should have materialised from?

We could never have recruited 10 more 'best-22' mature players to fill the holes in our list. We have no choice but to wait another couple of years until our list matures - then we will have a list in balance and we will be finalists in my view. We will play finals in 2016 and probably not before that. A complete rebuild in 4 years and then finals. With a lot of luck we may sneak into the 8 next season.

You exaggerate. It's really no point in debating.

I'm not looking for 10 best 22 mature recruits. I'm looking for maybe one extra 1 KPP, gun or not, even a potentially good developing one. I thought about listing all of the KPP's drafted in the last 3 drafts or all of the KPP's traded in the past 3 years but I really can't be bothered. The matrix I'd have to draw to go through all of the potential scenarios of adding an extra 100K to players wage or extra draft picks we'd have to spend on them are so easily shot down that it's a futile exercise.

Fact is, after 3 years you can't be throwing around the excuse that's been out of the clubs hands. Let's be honest, Macca would even concede they've probably made mistakes in not chasing some players hard enough or putting to much faith in certain players already at the club so why can't some supporters?

 

[DexterTan]

Didn't we lose against Melbourne last year? Did anyone chuck their membership cards in the microwave after that happened?