List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[pmac21]

Yeah no chance of getting Fogarty.

 

[Marcel Proust]

We gave up pick 6 and a future 2nd round for Prestia and pick 24

Taranto would have to have a similar value to Prestia. To be honest if we do go far in finals I’m not sure how we get it done unless GWS really do desperately need to get him off their books

Norfs pick 19, future picks.

Lots of options

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Doesn’t make any sense. Adelaide’s first pick gets the job done for Rankine, why would we (or Fogarty) need to be involved?

If you are offering a 22yo kid a $900k long term deal, does pick 4 cover that? I think that is a value of pick 1 type deal. That is pick 4 plus about pick 18. Which may explain the Crows interest in coming up with a draft pick in that region. Who knows, but it is not out of the question. I guess Matt Crouch compo is another possible way they can come up with a pick like that. Interesting situation to watch.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Referring to Fogarty


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Thanks TGOM

 

[sante]

Surely this is the year we nab Narkle?

 

[Ctl]

We should trade next years first round pick for Taranto , seeing as the giants will have a big hand of picks this year. Then we can use pick 19 to get back into the first round next year

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Miller & Ryan

As others have said, neither have proven they can even compete as AFL first rucks. Both showing great signs for the future, but v Gawn, Naitanui, Darcy, Marshall, Hickey, how confident are you that you could rely on these players to not get taken apart as first ruck in 2023? If it goes wrong, it could straight out cost you games. Soldo at least we know can stand up to these guys physically here and now.

Fact is we cannot keep all these guys on the list even if we wanted to

Soldo , Nank , Colina are all similar type Ruckman (specially Soldo/Nank) ad cant play both in the same team
they will want to be 1st Rucks and also make some $$$ which Soldo is limited currently

I see soldo as the player thats surplus from the ones we have on the list , My opinion is that with players like Nank , Balta , Miller and hopefully Ryan & Biggy we just wont have the game time to give Soldo and will most likely be in 12 months time.

Colina is not even in the picture for senior footy in 2023, so forget him. I can accept Soldo may not be in the best 22 as there are better second ruck/forward options, but we have no better back up first ruck option at this point.

But this is exactly the point Balta & Miller as well as Ryan possibly in the future have killed off Soldo's 2nd Ruck role and he will just b playing VFL
He wont stay as backup after 6-7 years on the list and will leave as a free agent in 12 months time

Soldo will be 27 next season

You still need to insurance of at least one viable first ruck in reserve. Ruckmen get injured, suspended, and they can tire if forced to carry the first ruck load one out for the entire season.

Yes, I would trade Soldo but only if we had confidence Ryan was ready for senior footy … which I think he would be.

Soldo’s major asset used to be his tapwork and ability to nullify the oppo ruck at stoppages…. his ruck work this year was putrid…. never hit a target, constantly tapped it to oppo mids etc….maybe it was due to coming off an ACL, but if we got a juicy offer I’d seriously consider it.

If it means we put another ruck on the rookie list so be it …. anyone 200cm standing upright could deliver what Soldo did in 2022.


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There is no problem with carrying 3 x first rucks on the list, most clubs do. When they are all available, ok one is a spare playing forward in the VFL. That is a much better problem than suddenly having two unavailable and having to scratch around for undersized solutions, which of course entails losing a player from elsewhere.

We still don’t know for sure if Ryan has any chance of being an AFL first ruck and that he might not be better suited to playing forward, though I accept he is showing good signs as a ruckman in the VFL. Soldo seems a lot stronger than him at this point though.

Soldo used to touch up Preuss when he played for Casey. I reckon Soldo like many other backup rucks would blossom if he got a starting ruck spot. That won't be with us. I mean who knew Darcy Cameron had it in him? No one. Or Witts or McInerney etc etc. Plus another full pre season will only help that knee. Plus the ruck tax is real, they always get slightly higher value on the trade table.

Ryan and Miller. Balta or Biggie after that if we get desperate. Not many clubs have a decent ready to go #1 type rucks toiling away in the reserves. Can always rookie a mature age ruck or take one in the mid season draft if need be too.

It'd be a slight risk but if it meant we keep our first rounder and bring in Taranto it'd be well worth it.

Yep

Next year will be Millers 6th season, he's just about to enter his prime. He'd be fine as insurance for Nank.
I bet you thought the same about Finlayson. Everyone did. Actually nearly everyone (myself included) thought he was an absolute dud. He's been the highest rated ruck in the league since round 7.

I'm not saying get rid of Soldo no matter what, but if it helps us acquire a gun mid or key forward and keep some draft capital then I think we'd have to consider it.

First, your Finlayson comment. Finalayson is a 26yo experienced AFL footballer. We don’t have a Finlayson. He has adapted well in the ruck as far as his own performance. Does he hurt opponents? Does he make his team-mates walk taller with his physical presence? Will he stand in the hole and take an overhead mark while a pack of key position players is bearing down on him? How are Port fairing with him as first ruck, are they winning? How is their clearance count for eg

Bombers 37 v Port 28

Tigers 45 v Port 39

Collingwood 36 v Port 44

Cats 38 v Port 36

Demons 27 v Port 40(was in Alice Springs with Gawn first up from injury and Oliver missing)

GWS 26 v Port 37(22yo Flynn the opposing ruck)

Freo 47 v Port 30

Suns 42 v Port 43


So their clearances, while up and down a bit, are roughly level overall in that sample. But Port are 4 wins 6 losses since Finlayson has been doing most of the rucking. Losses v Richmond twice, Melbourne, Dockers Cats Pies. Wins v Swans(Ladhams) GWS(Flynn) Bombers(Draper) Suns(Witts). You would have to say v finals teams with a 1 win 6 loss record it isn’t a confirmed resounding success.

Actually in our recent game v Port Teakle did most of the rucking. To get an idea of what can happen to an outmatched young ruck….have a look at Nank’s game in that match.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


First ruck types not in best 22 at other AFL clubs 23yo or older:

Crows have Strachan.

Lions have Fort.

Blues have DeKoning.

Collingwood have at least one of Grundy/Cameron/Cox.

Essendon have Phillips.

Fremantle have Meek.

Giants have Flynn.

Geelong have Ceglar.

Suns have nobody.

Hawks have Lynch or Reeves.

Melbourne went into the season with Majak Daw, since retired.

North have at least one of Goldstein/Xerri/Coleman-Jones

Port have at least one of Hayes/Lycett and soon Teakle turns 23

Saints have Campbell.

Swans have Ladhams + Sinclair.

Eagles have Strnedica.

Bulldogs have Sweet.


So it is more correct to say almost every club has at least one spare first ruck 23yo or older. Gold Coast are the only exception I can see, they have a couple of younger rucks. Soldo actually represents a good advantage for us over most of that field as well.

People talking about a ready made backup incase Nankervis gets injured , There are not too many teams that would have a backup #1 Ruckman on their lists and if they have he will be gone in a year or 2

Nankervis is extremely durable and apart from that Syndesmosis injury he really has not missed alot of games playing 107 of a possible 130 in 6 years
I think we will be ok for 1-2 years until Ryan , Colina are good enough to backup and with Miller , Biggy and Balta as relief we have decent cover

Check the above list and then re-read your comment I have highlighted. I don’t think your comment is correct. Assuming your only genuine first ruckman on the list is going to be fit for the whole season while others develop….does that really appeal as sound planning?

For mine you keep Soldo. You only trade him out - presuming all parties are agreed - in the event you replace him with a mature back-up ruckman. You just do not want to be going into crucial AFL matches without knowing you have a ruckman who can at least compete with his opponent, it is about the most efficent way there is to lose a footy match.

 

[_RT_]

We started winning finals when Nank Pres and his mates showed up and we changed our brand to finals style footy , period

When did we last win an actual elimination final?

1977 that's when.

If it was a qualifying final different story.

 

[Profop]

If you are offering a 22yo kid a $900k long term deal, does pick 4 cover that? I think that is a value of pick 1 type deal. That is pick 4 plus about pick 18. Which may explain the Crows interest in coming up with a draft pick in that region. Who knows, but it is not out of the question. I guess Matt Crouch compo is another possible way they can come up with a pick like that. Interesting situation to watch.

Yes pick 4 is enough for Rankine based on his output so far

Also no way Matt Crouch attracts an offer that gets a compo pick anywhere near pick 18. In fact I’m pretty sure he’s actually still contracted so would need to be traded and again legitimately no one is trading an early second round pick for Matt Crouch

 

[Charlie Pannam]

As others have said, neither have proven they can even compete as AFL first rucks. Both showing great signs for the future, but v Gawn, Naitanui, Darcy, Marshall, Hickey, how confident are you that you could rely on these players to not get taken apart as first ruck in 2023? If it goes wrong, it could straight out cost you games. Soldo at least we know can stand up to these guys physically here and now.




Colina is not even in the picture for senior footy in 2023, so forget him. I can accept Soldo may not be in the best 22 as there are better second ruck/forward options, but we have no better back up first ruck option at this point.




You still need to insurance of at least one viable first ruck in reserve. Ruckmen get injured, suspended, and they can tire if forced to carry the first ruck load one out for the entire season.





There is no problem with carrying 3 x first rucks on the list, most clubs do. When they are all available, ok one is a spare playing forward in the VFL. That is a much better problem than suddenly having two unavailable and having to scratch around for undersized solutions, which of course entails losing a player from elsewhere.

We still don’t know for sure if Ryan has any chance of being an AFL first ruck and that he might not be better suited to playing forward, though I accept he is showing good signs as a ruckman in the VFL. Soldo seems a lot stronger than him at this point though.





First, your Finlayson comment. Finalayson is a 26yo experienced AFL footballer. We don’t have a Finlayson. He has adapted well in the ruck as far as his own performance. Does he hurt opponents? Does he make his team-mates walk taller with his physical presence? Will he stand in the hole and take an overhead mark while a pack of key position players is bearing down on him? How are Port fairing with him as first ruck, are they winning? How is their clearance count for eg

Bombers 37 v Port 28

Tigers 45 v Port 39

Collingwood 36 v Port 44

Cats 38 v Port 36

Demons 27 v Port 40(was in Alice Springs with Gawn first up from injury and Oliver missing)

GWS 26 v Port 37(22yo Flynn the opposing ruck)

Freo 47 v Port 30

Suns 42 v Port 43


So their clearances, while up and down a bit, are roughly level overall in that sample. But Port are 4 wins 6 losses since Finlayson has been doing most of the rucking. Losses v Richmond twice, Melbourne, Dockers Cats Pies. Wins v Swans(Ladhams) GWS(Flynn) Bombers(Draper) Suns(Witts). You would have to say v finals teams with a 1 win 6 loss record it isn’t a confirmed resounding success.

Actually in our recent game v Port Teakle did most of the rucking. To get an idea of what can happen to an outmatched young ruck….have a look at Nank’s game in that match.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


First ruck types not in best 22 at other AFL clubs 23yo or older:

Crows have Strachan.

Lions have Fort.

Blues have DeKoning.

Collingwood have at least one of Grundy/Cameron/Cox.

Essendon have Phillips.

Fremantle have Meek.

Giants have Flynn.

Geelong have Ceglar.

Suns have nobody.

Hawks have Lynch or Reeves.

Melbourne went into the season with Majak Daw, since retired.

North have at least one of Goldstein/Xerri/Coleman-Jones

Port have at least one of Hayes/Lycett and soon Teakle turns 23

Saints have Campbell.

Swans have Ladhams + Sinclair.

Eagles have Strnedica.

Bulldogs have Sweet.


So it is more correct to say almost every club has at least one spare first ruck 23yo or older. Gold Coast are the only exception I can see, they have a couple of younger rucks. Soldo actually represents a good advantage for us over most of that field as well.







Check the above list and then re-read your comment I have highlighted. I don’t think your comment is correct. Assuming your only genuine first ruckman on the list is going to be fit for the whole season while others develop….does that really appeal as sound planning?

For mine you keep Soldo. You only trade him out - presuming all parties are agreed - in the event you replace him with a mature back-up ruckman. You just do not want to be going into crucial AFL matches without knowing you have a ruckman who can at least compete with his opponent, it is about the most efficent way there is to lose a footy match.

If someone comes knocking for Soldo I’d consider a decent offer. I think Ryan will become an AFL ruckman and to be honest watching Soldo this year I think we can do better. Doesn’t do enough around the ground and not convinced his ruck work translates to clearances.

 

[DeLaCon]

The Suns want a lot more than that pick for Rankine according to whats going around.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Surely this is the year we nab Narkle?

Best mates with Bolton apparently

 

[All Aust]

As others have said, neither have proven they can even compete as AFL first rucks. Both showing great signs for the future, but v Gawn, Naitanui, Darcy, Marshall, Hickey, how confident are you that you could rely on these players to not get taken apart as first ruck in 2023? If it goes wrong, it could straight out cost you games. Soldo at least we know can stand up to these guys physically here and now.




Colina is not even in the picture for senior footy in 2023, so forget him. I can accept Soldo may not be in the best 22 as there are better second ruck/forward options, but we have no better back up first ruck option at this point.




You still need to insurance of at least one viable first ruck in reserve. Ruckmen get injured, suspended, and they can tire if forced to carry the first ruck load one out for the entire season.





There is no problem with carrying 3 x first rucks on the list, most clubs do. When they are all available, ok one is a spare playing forward in the VFL. That is a much better problem than suddenly having two unavailable and having to scratch around for undersized solutions, which of course entails losing a player from elsewhere.

We still don’t know for sure if Ryan has any chance of being an AFL first ruck and that he might not be better suited to playing forward, though I accept he is showing good signs as a ruckman in the VFL. Soldo seems a lot stronger than him at this point though.





First, your Finlayson comment. Finalayson is a 26yo experienced AFL footballer. We don’t have a Finlayson. He has adapted well in the ruck as far as his own performance. Does he hurt opponents? Does he make his team-mates walk taller with his physical presence? Will he stand in the hole and take an overhead mark while a pack of key position players is bearing down on him? How are Port fairing with him as first ruck, are they winning? How is their clearance count for eg

Bombers 37 v Port 28

Tigers 45 v Port 39

Collingwood 36 v Port 44

Cats 38 v Port 36

Demons 27 v Port 40(was in Alice Springs with Gawn first up from injury and Oliver missing)

GWS 26 v Port 37(22yo Flynn the opposing ruck)

Freo 47 v Port 30

Suns 42 v Port 43


So their clearances, while up and down a bit, are roughly level overall in that sample. But Port are 4 wins 6 losses since Finlayson has been doing most of the rucking. Losses v Richmond twice, Melbourne, Dockers Cats Pies. Wins v Swans(Ladhams) GWS(Flynn) Bombers(Draper) Suns(Witts). You would have to say v finals teams with a 1 win 6 loss record it isn’t a confirmed resounding success.

Actually in our recent game v Port Teakle did most of the rucking. To get an idea of what can happen to an outmatched young ruck….have a look at Nank’s game in that match.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


First ruck types not in best 22 at other AFL clubs 23yo or older:

Crows have Strachan.

Lions have Fort.

Blues have DeKoning.

Collingwood have at least one of Grundy/Cameron/Cox.

Essendon have Phillips.

Fremantle have Meek.

Giants have Flynn.

Geelong have Ceglar.

Suns have nobody.

Hawks have Lynch or Reeves.

Melbourne went into the season with Majak Daw, since retired.

North have at least one of Goldstein/Xerri/Coleman-Jones

Port have at least one of Hayes/Lycett and soon Teakle turns 23

Saints have Campbell.

Swans have Ladhams + Sinclair.

Eagles have Strnedica.

Bulldogs have Sweet.


So it is more correct to say almost every club has at least one spare first ruck 23yo or older. Gold Coast are the only exception I can see, they have a couple of younger rucks. Soldo actually represents a good advantage for us over most of that field as well.







Check the above list and then re-read your comment I have highlighted. I don’t think your comment is correct. Assuming your only genuine first ruckman on the list is going to be fit for the whole season while others develop….does that really appeal as sound planning?

For mine you keep Soldo. You only trade him out - presuming all parties are agreed - in the event you replace him with a mature back-up ruckman. You just do not want to be going into crucial AFL matches without knowing you have a ruckman who can at least compete with his opponent, it is about the most efficent way there is to lose a footy match.

It will be interesting to track Miller and Ryan on their AFL path.
Whilst it was almost fully agreed that Ryan's debut game was premature, there has to be a point in time where the "not ready" to be a senior Ruck tag becomes mythical. If only because we coach and develop our players to be better.

With this in mind, it is remiss not to credit the effort / performance of Miller in second ruck in recent weeks. It seems that this will be ongoing for this season.

Our keen VFL watchers suggest that the "Ryan not ready" tag is becoming a little passe given VFL performance against the second ruckman listed in your post. I pretty sure that Ryan will have value as a dual position player, one of those being Ruck.

This is not to say that Ivan or any other player has no value / respect / potential to be tapped. If a trade deal needs to be arranged with GWS, they will be asking for the best RFC player that best suits their needs.

So, if that becomes a trade discussion, then one of Nank, Soldo, Miller, Ryan is the trade. Which player are you prepared to trade here, or, abandon the trade, because, look over there, we have nippy bloke called Jake, probably won't be well received.

 

[fargothegreat]

Twomey reporting he now has us as frontrunner for Tarranto. Hopper is off to Geelong, so we've sharpened our focus.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

Twomey reporting he now has us as frontrunner for Tarranto. Hopper is off to Geelong, so we've sharpened our focus.

We would have to be. If Grundy leaves the pies they would have to pay at least 300k of his wage, plus they are still paying treloar 300k and bringing in Mcstay, Hill and now Billy Frampton. They can't afford everyone

 

[fargothegreat]

We would have to be. If Grundy leaves the pies they would have to pay at least 300k of his wage, plus they are still paying treloar 300k and bringing in Mcstay, Hill and now Billy Frampton. They can't afford everyone

Just saw on the trade board C4 (known ITK poster) said he wants to play for us, so the noise is getting louder.

 

[SleepingGiant]

So just out of curiosity, who in the thread last year mentioned was a good pick up? Mitchell ? The only ones who were: I mentioned Curnow (and he was gettable then for less than Taranto), and De Goey. The only one that may work is Taranto but I could easily see it becoming a Carlton type pick up which doesn’t quite have that A grade impact a Prestia or Lynch has.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Agree with others that Soldo is a reasonable first ruck back up that is on a minimal contract. The club just needs to shuffle the ruck pecking order and stop playing him as the second ruck. He simply isn’t suited. They seem to have done that.

Fair to say there still improvement in Soldo. His form this year can be excused just a little as he continues to recover from that knee.


On Ryan, he is a real prospect. I remember watching Gawn in his first couple of years running around in the twos mostly. He looked like a lost cause at times. Some big blokes just need time and Ryan has shown more than enough to suggest he has talent.

 

[tiger_tough]

Just saw on the trade board C4 (known ITK poster) said he wants to play for us, so the noise is getting louder.

Yep he has had good tigers mail before. I remember he was the first to say Grigg was coming.

 

[bd3_]

We’re being to linked arguably one the best young midfielders in the comp - playing in a below average side this season- people said Prestia wasn’t worth pick 6 at the time, how people forget. Timmy T is a freak don’t get it twisted; he’s also been playing out of position the last 2 years with Cameron throwing him forward when rotating with cogs

AND we have people talking about Soldo??? Who gives a f***** about soldo!!! He’s bang average at the moment and Miller is doing a better job. End of story whether he is a good backup or not who cares? Right now he is #3 in the pecking order.

 

[Groupie_]

Twomey reporting he now has us as frontrunner for Tarranto. Hopper is off to Geelong, so we've sharpened our focus.

but that pies poster said we were no chance

 

[richoatthedisco]

If someone comes knocking for Soldo I’d consider a decent offer. I think Ryan will become an AFL ruckman and to be honest watching Soldo this year I think we can do better. Doesn’t do enough around the ground and not convinced his ruck work translates to clearances.

Recovering from the knee. Will be much better next year.

Yes pick 4 is enough for Rankine based on his output so far

Based on his 900k offer it's not.

It will be interesting to track Miller and Ryan on their AFL path.
Whilst it was almost fully agreed that Ryan's debut game was premature, there has to be a point in time where the "not ready" to be a senior Ruck tag becomes mythical. If only because we coach and develop our players to be better.

With this in mind, it is remiss not to credit the effort / performance of Miller in second ruck in recent weeks. It seems that this will be ongoing for this season.

Our keen VFL watchers suggest that the "Ryan not ready" tag is becoming a little passe given VFL performance against the second ruckman listed in your post. I pretty sure that Ryan will have value as a dual position player, one of those being Ruck.

This is not to say that Ivan or any other player has no value / respect / potential to be tapped. If a trade deal needs to be arranged with GWS, they will be asking for the best RFC player that best suits their needs.

So, if that becomes a trade discussion, then one of Nank, Soldo, Miller, Ryan is the trade. Which player are you prepared to trade here, or, abandon the trade, because, look over there, we have nippy bloke called Jake, probably won't be well received.

Ryan will be a player but it will be best for him and the team if he's eased in as 2nd ruck/forward. If Nank were to go down and he was the only option to play first ruck you could break him.

So just out of curiosity, who in the thread last year mentioned was a good pick up? Mitchell ? The only ones who were: I mentioned Curnow (and he was gettable then for less than Taranto), and De Goey. The only one that may work is Taranto but I could easily see it becoming a Carlton type pick up which doesn’t quite have that A grade impact a Prestia or Lynch has.

Charlie Curnow? Was not gettable at all.

AND we have people talking about Soldo??? Who gives a f***** about soldo!!! He’s bang average at the moment and Miller is doing a better job. End of story whether he is a good backup or not who cares? Right now he is #3 in the pecking order.

He's #2 for the #1 role. If Nank went down Soldo would be playing first ruck, not Miller.

 

[Groupie_]

the old we neva wanted him anyway

 

[GoTigers2015]

Brilliant news

 

[DeLaCon]

Collingwood also in the race for Fogarty now. Seems like hes gettable. Tigs71 spot on with his news that Fogarty could be on the move. Hopefully weve done enough work to get him over to Richmond as well.