List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[Roksman]

Just a reminder that J Short is leading the BnF after 16 rounds - although unlikely to win it - just proves that the so called trade experts here continuously stating he should be traded have NFI.

If it was up to them, they'd take Short in order to pay Bowes 850k

Apparently pick 7 is more important than club values.

 

[Calcium Man]

Stengle kicked 50 goals, got a flag and AA

It happens sometimes

Stengle problems weren’t playing AFL football. They were very publicly off field stuff.

Narkle or Stocker have zero places on our list. They don’t fill a position of need (with Taranto and Hopper incoming) and we are already struggling to get everyone into our best 22.

So why would we waste a list spot on them that could be better used on a developing player?

I read your posts, so I know you know this too.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Just a reminder that J Short is leading the BnF after 16 rounds - although unlikely to win it - just proves that the so called trade experts here continuously stating he should be traded have NFI.

If it was up to them, they'd take Short in order to pay Bowes 850k

Apparently pick 7 is more important than club values.

Respectfully disagree with this conclusion.

Ellis finished 2nd and made the AA squad yet was deemed expendable

 

[Roksman]

Respectfully disagree with this conclusion.

Ellis finished 2nd and made the AA squad yet was deemed expendable

Exactly - club values.

Ellis was offered a life changing contract as a free agent which we couldn't get near matching. Ellis' story is well documented as one of the first HHH sessions where the room broke down about his upbringing in commission housing.

The club encouraged him to take the deal which was once in a lifetime.

The Short comparison isn't even close considering people here are suggesting we push Short out the door fresh after signing a 5 year deal - we're not Collingwood.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Its not a melt, just that the theory that its a destination club cos some bloke liked to go surfing is horsepoo.

No one is taking $250k less to live in Geelong over Melbourne, which is what you basically said happened. I find it far more believable that they are getting other benefits outside of their contract enticing them

Australia is the type of place where 30-90 minutes away, there is always a beautiful place to live. In Brisbane of the GC, you are 2 hours away from far more beautiful places - sunny coast, Byron Bay etc.

There has been some phenomenal money made by people associated with the Cats in land deals out on that side of town.

Good work by them, however they are going about it. I’m sure we are using the full weight of our clubs connections when recruiting also.

 

[DannyS]

That’s cos it was a dumb suggestion



Every offseason every delisted player gets mentioned on here, they were delisted for a reason. I have no clue why anyone thinks other clubs duds would make our best 22. Especially when we are already bringing in 2 top line players.

“Dumb suggestion” bit unwarranted, just my opinion. Not saying Narkle and Stocker will be competing with Hopper and Taranto but would they offer more than Martyn, Aarts, Castagna ( and RCD and Stack if they are moved on by the club) in the list for no trade consequences especially if we get reamed and don’t have any other pick than 84? As for delisted players going okay Peter Bell, Brett Kirk, Andrew Krakouer ......

 

[RJK Tiger]

There has been some phenomenal money made by people associated with the Cats in land deals out on that side of town.

Good work by them, however they are going about it. I’m sure we are using the full weight of our clubs connections when recruiting also.

Yep i remember the story for a few years back clearly. It might be good work, but i would also say its questionable in regards to the cap's integrity,

I am no stickler for the rules i might add. I actually am reasonably ok with rules being stretched to keep your marquee star, especially if you recruited them yourself. But you got to wonder how they have done it. I would just love to see their salaries - with the NBA i can literally google every teams salary spending for the next 5 years and see exactly the smart and dumb moves they made. This needs to happen, as the actual fans keep clubs accountable from doing stupid shit in real time.

 

[RJK Tiger]

“Dumb suggestion” bit unwarranted, just my opinion. Not saying Narkle and Stocker will be competing with Hopper and Taranto but would they offer more than Martyn, Aarts, Castagna ( and RCD and Stack if they are moved on by the club) in the list for no trade consequences especially if we get reamed and don’t have any other pick than 84? As for delisted players going okay Peter Bell, Brett Kirk, Andrew Krakouer ......

I would have no issue with either being given a rookie spot, especially if the club has seen something in them previously before.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Exactly - club values.

Ellis was offered a life changing contract as a free agent which we couldn't get near matching. Ellis' story is well documented as one of the first HHH sessions where the room broke down about his upbringing in commission housing.

The club encouraged him to take the deal which was once in a lifetime.

The Short comparison isn't even close considering people here are suggesting we push Short out the door fresh after signing a 5 year deal - we're not Collingwood.

I agree with you both oddly enough.

I honestly think if we had Ellis this year we very well could have been top 4 & he would be a big part of our next chapter. It was disappointing to see him leave & i was quite vocal with my anger with Rance to quit on us a mere month or 2 after we had to let him go. If Rance had done it earlier, we could have kept him as we had the opportunity to offer him closer to the GC offer. Brandon was such a leader for the likes of Short & Baker & i think if he was still with the team he very well could be captain right now.

I would take him back in an instant if we could get him back due to the Suns cap problems, even without a first rounder attached

 

[RJK Tiger]

Stengle problems weren’t playing AFL football. They were very publicly off field stuff.

Narkle or Stocker have zero places on our list. They don’t fill a position of need (with Taranto and Hopper incoming) and we are already struggling to get everyone into our best 22.

So why would we waste a list spot on them that could be better used on a developing player?

I read your posts, so I know you know this too.

Man, don't count chickens before they hatch.

Hopper & Taranto could be duds with us - it happens. Some of our best pick ups have been blokes like Toby, Grigg, Houli - they were not meant to be the keys to a premiership. As i've said before, there are quite a lot of GWS players that have struggled to maintain their form in the big smoke (melb)

Look at Stengle vs Fantasia for example. Fantasia was the "big name" small forward recruit and he couldn't get on the park - Stengle was the flyer who is now a 50+ goal Premiership player with AA honours.

 

[Marcel Proust]

“Dumb suggestion” bit unwarranted, just my opinion. Not saying Narkle and Stocker will be competing with Hopper and Taranto but would they offer more than Martyn, Aarts, Castagna ( and RCD and Stack if they are moved on by the club) in the list for no trade consequences especially if we get reamed and don’t have any other pick than 84? As for delisted players going okay Peter Bell, Brett Kirk, Andrew Krakouer ......

Jarryd lyons

​

 

[RJK Tiger]

No brainer leaving it to one of the best in the business, Hartley. Sure he’s 3-4 years ahead of our thinking.

Yeah, remember Greg Miller once being the best in the business. Also remember when Creed was the biggest band in the world. Hell, even David Bowie, Neil Young & John Lennon have made some god awful albums in their time.

Things can change quickly, especially when you start chasing success instead of making it

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

What’s happening in here geeezuz

Well, a player might leave us because he sees it difficult making the best 22 but in return we would receive that team’s best young KPF. An untradeable player.

Given we won’t be any chance in the world of getting Marshall we instead will be getting/demanding a higher pick for JG than we’re prepared to pay for Hopper or Taranto. Makes sense.

There is other good stuff in here but this gives an idea.

With Rankine leaving a smaller forward might be more to their interest . We could throw in a 2 for 1 deal , Castagna and Aarts

They saw George first hand.

 

[TheGhostOfMaurice]

Yep i remember the story for a few years back clearly. It might be good work, but i would also say its questionable in regards to the cap's integrity,

I am no stickler for the rules i might add. I actually am reasonably ok with rules being stretched to keep your marquee star, especially if you recruited them yourself. But you got to wonder how they have done it. I would just love to see their salaries - with the NBA i can literally google every teams salary spending for the next 5 years and see exactly the smart and dumb moves they made. This needs to happen, as the actual fans keep clubs accountable from doing stupid s**t in real time.

The cats hierarchy would die before they let the accounts see daylight.
When the supplements saga went down and Geelong was seemingly implicated because where Thompson and dank were previously there. Nope swept under the rug.
When Ablett fed the 18 year old chick drugs for two to three days. Nothing….the broom was there again.
That grub club are the catholic priests of the AFL.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

All good. I traded Aarts and Castagna to Hawthorn*. They've agreed to pay Shai's salary out of their salary cap for the next 4 years. They couldn't believe they were getting two experienced B-graders for only $1 million a year.

*Hawthorn was represented in these negotiations by a plumber from Burwood East

“*Hawthorn was represented in these negotiations by a plumber from Burwood“

While installing a Rheem.

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

They are massive left wing

And don’t get me wrong I’m not big right wing either just very anti far left

And I thought the trade talk was bordering on delusional

 

[prodigy]

After watching the JDM, it seems we have every confidence we have the list to continue contending in the years to come.
Richmond under this administration have barely put a foot wrong.

If they think all we need is Taranto and Hopper, I'll back them in.
I personally think we need one more decent KPF, which may come internally via Gibcus/Ryan/Bauer.

It's going to be an interesting next couple of weeks.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Exactly - club values.

Ellis was offered a life changing contract as a free agent which we couldn't get near matching. Ellis' story is well documented as one of the first HHH sessions where the room broke down about his upbringing in commission housing.

The club encouraged him to take the deal which was once in a lifetime.

The Short comparison isn't even close considering people here are suggesting we push Short out the door fresh after signing a 5 year deal - we're not Collingwood.

Ellis' Gold Coast deal wasn't a hell of a lot more per year than we'd been paying him. It's just that for him to stay with us he would have had to take a 50% haircut. We saw him as expendable in anticipation of getting an end-of -first-round compo pick, which we should have.

He and Short are on about the same money now.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Ellis' Gold Coast deal wasn't a hell of a lot more per year than we'd been paying him. It's just that for him to stay with us he would have had to take a 50% haircut. He and Short are on about the same money now.

Good to see im not the only one with a weird ass brain when it comes to typing

 

[Tackle Bag]

Yep i remember the story for a few years back clearly. It might be good work, but i would also say its questionable in regards to the cap's integrity,

I am no stickler for the rules i might add. I actually am reasonably ok with rules being stretched to keep your marquee star, especially if you recruited them yourself. But you got to wonder how they have done it. I would just love to see their salaries - with the NBA i can literally google every teams salary spending for the next 5 years and see exactly the smart and dumb moves they made. This needs to happen, as the actual fans keep clubs accountable from doing stupid s**t in real time.

You give far too much credit to the fans. Shit deals are still done in the NBA so it has no real impact.

There will always be some clubs that are run better than others.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Plus, you’re also trading in a 1.6 million dollar hole in your cap.

If its such a bad idea, i doubt Geelong would entertain the idea. It's pretty much indisputable now that their strategy of drafting & trading is top shelf, people can no longer deny them that. There is clearly value in it if the best run club in the league is eyeballing it.

I mean, Jacob Hopper was once a pick 7. Would you rather get him as a rookie by taking on a big contract for just 2 years?

Worth noting that Bowes is not completely hopeless either. He was a top 10 pick himself, can play in the middle and down back with decent height at 187cm. is just 24 & has 78 games to his name. Averaged 21 touches a game last year - its not like we are getting no onfield asset pack along with the Pick 7.

Freo did this with Will Brodie last year and he had a career year, got 11 Brownlow votes, 2nd most for freo overall.

The actual hole would be $900k as he actually has some value. That is offset with the pick 7 though as you then pay a likely talented kid a rookie contract you otherwise would have spend 3 times the amount for on Jason Castagna etc.

The kids they are dumping are not turds, they are talented, just overpayed

 

[RJK Tiger]

You give far too much credit to the fans. s**t deals are still done in the NBA so it has no real impact.

There will always be some clubs that are run better than others.

Not sure i believe that. When a deal happens like they offer Timofey Mozgov $64m over 4 years, immediately everyone lost their minds. Same when Detroit traded for Blake Griffin due to his contract, it was immediately met with outcry. You can rate a move made immediately.

This whole idea that we just keep it all secret is pointless - make it all open so the fans are legit seeing the full picture. The game is for us overall. Make it as immersive as possible, allows for more quality content in the media etc.

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

If its such a bad idea, i doubt Geelong would entertain the idea. It's pretty much indisputable now that their strategy of drafting & trading is top shelf, people can no longer deny them that. There is clearly value in it if the best run club in the league is eyeballing it.

I mean, Jacob Hopper was once a pick 7. Would you rather get him as a rookie by taking on a big contract for just 2 years?

Worth noting that Bowes is not completely hopeless either. He was a top 10 pick himself, can play in the middle and down back with decent height at 187cm. is just 24 & has 78 games to his name. Averaged 21 touches a game last year - its not like we are getting no onfield asset pack along with the Pick 7.

Freo did this with Will Brodie last year and he had a career year, got 11 Brownlow votes, 2nd most for freo overall.

The actual hole would be $900k as he actually has some value. That is offset with the pick 7 though as you then pay a likely talented kid a rookie contract you otherwise would have spend 3 times the amount for on Jason Castagna etc.

The kids they are dumping are not turds, they are talented, just overpayed

Actually deleted my post because I misread yours.

Regardless of all the plus’s and minuses; what I saw in the u18’s game doesn’t give me much confidence that I’d want give up 5% of our cap for pick 7.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Actually deleted my post because I misread yours.

Regardless of all the plus’s and minuses; what I saw in the u18’s game doesn’t give me much confidence that I’d want give up 5% of our cap for pick 7.

Well that is another conversation entirely & yes, very relevant. I never feign to have an opinion on the quality of the draft & wont even pretend to now. If you have a strong opinion on the quality of the draft then that is not something i can really comment on, as i have no opinion on it.

Lots of risk involved. I've clearly been weary of us reloading for flag. I was against it last off-season, and there is not much about what happened this year that makes me think otherwise.

I also am fully against trading future picks unless you know your future is golden, which we don't - as we will see30% of our starting 18 depart over the next 2 seasons (likely). I also think that giving 2 new players massive 7 year deals while you only gave others shorter term, less lucrative deals can backfire terribly. 7 years is an insane amount of years. They do a knee or achilles in their first year - they are going to take 5% of the cap for 6 more years and possibly be half the player they once were.

The risk is huge. I feel like no one is really focusing on that. You are committing 14 years of salary to 2 guys that have not shown they fit in with our team, system or culture yet. I am not a fan of long term contracts like that. Both will be in their 30's when that contract ends.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Not sure i believe that. When a deal happens like they offer Timofey Mozgov $64m over 4 years, immediately everyone lost their minds. Same when Detroit traded for Blake Griffin due to his contract, it was immediately met with outcry. You can rate a move made immediately.

This whole idea that we just keep it all secret is pointless - make it all open so the fans are legit seeing the full picture. The game is for us overall. Make it as immersive as possible, allows for more quality content in the media etc.

BG battled well v Giannis in post season tbf