Oppo Camp Brodie Grundy (Traded to Melbourne 2022)

[No SPIN]

Very simplistic way of looking at it

Unsophisticated insights are his bread and butter.

 

[No SPIN]

Yeah I’m a strange person who sees winning as more important than SuperCoach points…

The fact a team gets better without their highest paid player says a lot about what that player brings to the team. You might see it here and there, but 11 straight wins against top and bottom opposition is hard to argue that we’re not stronger without him.

Yet still some continue to…

The team is better because of a new Coaching Panel and Game plan - not because of Grundy’s absence.
And we’ll be better again according to Fly with Grundy playing.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[leon123]

Yeah I’m a strange person who sees winning as more important than SuperCoach points…

The fact a team gets better without their highest paid player says a lot about what that player brings to the team. You might see it here and there, but 11 straight wins against top and bottom opposition is hard to argue that we’re not stronger without him.

Yet still some continue to…

Contract value is a seperate debate i.e. benefit versus cost.

Have a ponder though, your logic is flawed re Grundy. You are saying Pies aren't as good with him in it?

Follow the logic here, then why are supposedly teams like Geelong?Melbourne want him?

I thinks, your issue, is his contract value, is that correct?

 

[leon123]

Agree with this.

When you're strange
No one remembers your name

 

[KJpie]

But seriously, I don't think it's possible for strained dealings to end with a 7 year, million bucks a year contract.

hx 36, Would it be fair to say the current footy department etc are not so enthused with the deal and does a trade look like a done thing?
I appreciate at the end of the day Grundy has a contract & can simply say no.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Would it be fair to say the current footy department etc are not so enthused and does it look like a done thing?
I appreciate at the end of the day Grundy has a contract & can simply say no.

If your employer told you you weren’t wanted, and another employer would pay you the same salary, to do the same job, what would you do?

 

[sr36]

hx 36, Would it be fair to say the current footy department etc are not so enthused with the deal and does a trade look like a done thing?
I appreciate at the end of the day Grundy has a contract & can simply say no.

Your guess is as good as mine. But I'm guessing he's going.

 

[jonbe54]

With the caveat that it is always hearsay, as we dont actually know what happened, the information in the media suggested Adelaide made a very big play, and we essentially matched the terms Adelaide were offering in order to keep him, or close enough.

The impression was definitely that his manager went hard - I guess getting a grandfather offer from another club can happen, but I would have thought it would be rare to push for matching terms from the incumbent club. Clubs always have to offer overs to get movement, so as an incumbent I'd always be starting from the assumption that 75-80% of their offer should get it done unless the player is totally focussed on the financials.

That said, we had options. Frankly if Grundy/Grundy's manager came and said, this or he walks, Id be carefully explaining that at Collingwood its about team success and thats the price of wearing the jumper. Paying that much for a ruck, which is in the end one position where good enough can be found for not much, and the added benefit from exceptional is marginal, is nuts. The only positions Id consider that money for are an elite KPF/KPB or an elite clearance inside/outside mid. Paying that much for a ruck unbalances your list in ways that * over the whole team, and Id make that point forcefully to the manager and player in question, and say that we here arent prepared to do that. So unfortunately, if those are your terms, we would be happy to facilitate a trade to the club of your choice on appropriate terms for Collingwood.

Why we didnt do that I dont know. I have a nasty suspicion there was some ego, some hubris, and some Ed in there. The problem being then if you have no walk away position for ego reasons, you will be taken to the wall by a hard negotiator.

I know it's nearly a century ago but just a random fact.

Back in the day when Collingwood ruled the VFL for about 15 years EVERY PLAYER was paid equal.

Without exception.

That was at a time when teams were TEAMS not collections of 'stars'.

Football salaries are out of control because player managers have the whip hand - and the more their player gets paid the more commission the player managers get.

It's fine to attack the stars for the money they earn but just remember the driving force behind this salary stampede are the player managers. Pushing their players salaries up purely for their own personal gain.

 

[leon123]

I know it's nearly a century ago but just a random fact.

Back in the day when Collingwood ruled the VFL for about 15 years EVERY PLAYER was paid equal.

Without exception.

That was at a time when teams were TEAMS not collections of 'stars'.

Football salaries are out of control because player managers have the whip hand - and the more their player gets paid the more commission the player managers get.

It's fine to attack the stars for the money they earn but just remember the driving force behind this salary stampede are the player managers. Pushing their players salaries up purely for their own personal gain.

 

[KJpie]

If your employer told you you weren’t wanted, and another employer would pay you the same salary, to do the same job, what would you do?

Personally, I don't have a contract nor is there an option for me to go to another employer as I'm self employed.
That said I understand & respect your point.
I'm simply trying to come up to speed by asking questions, not answering them without sifting thru the countless pages of posts, much of which are rumoured or otherwise.
From someone who does not know for sure, has the club actually told Grundy he is not wanted?

 

[Cyclops]

I know it's nearly a century ago but just a random fact.

Back in the day when Collingwood ruled the VFL for about 15 years EVERY PLAYER was paid equal.

Without exception.

That was at a time when teams were TEAMS not collections of 'stars'.

Football salaries are out of control because player managers have the whip hand - and the more their player gets paid the more commission the player managers get.

It's fine to attack the stars for the money they earn but just remember the driving force behind this salary stampede are the player managers. Pushing their players salaries up purely for their own personal gain.

Look thats a fair point but the League was created so players could get paid. Professionalism is a fact, the one amateur side University died in the arse.

You want monkeys? Pay peanuts. The old story about all Pies getting 3 quid (later increased to 5 quid) is true, but they also got golden handshakes in the rooms from John Wren, aa tenner here, a fiver there, so they could have their pay packet doubled or tripled off the books at the whim of some rich supporters: the truth is money is a great motivator. Also we weren't really paying them equally even when it was the Machine.

The Salary Cap kept a lot of clubs alive, maybe even ours. The money means they don't have to work as cops or teachers or whatever, where players used to cop injuries or retire because footy didn't pay the bills. We lost Bob Rose at age 27 to a police posting in rural Victoria.

Its not really reversible, and it was never really level.

 

[Markfs]

I know it's nearly a century ago but just a random fact.

Back in the day when Collingwood ruled the VFL for about 15 years EVERY PLAYER was paid equal.

Without exception.

That was at a time when teams were TEAMS not collections of 'stars'.

Football salaries are out of control because player managers have the whip hand - and the more their player gets paid the more commission the player managers get.

It's fine to attack the stars for the money they earn but just remember the driving force behind this salary stampede are the player managers. Pushing their players salaries up purely for their own personal gain.

dont like the managers eh... and every player paid the same? in the 1930s?

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Personally, I don't have a contract nor is there an option for me to go to another employer as I'm self employed.
That said I understand & respect your point.
I'm simply trying to come up to speed by asking questions, not answering them without sifting thru the countless pages of posts, much of which are rumoured correctly or otherwise.
From someone who does not know for sure, has the club actually told Grundy he is not wanted?

Fair point. I don’t know either, I just have a strong suspicion.

 

[gouki88]

I know it's nearly a century ago but just a random fact.

Back in the day when Collingwood ruled the VFL for about 15 years EVERY PLAYER was paid equal.

Without exception.

That was at a time when teams were TEAMS not collections of 'stars'.

Football salaries are out of control because player managers have the whip hand - and the more their player gets paid the more commission the player managers get.

It's fine to attack the stars for the money they earn but just remember the driving force behind this salary stampede are the player managers. Pushing their players salaries up purely for their own personal gain.

Why should players bow down to the team, when teams toss aside players willy-nilly as soon as it suits them?

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Why should players bow down to the team, when teams toss aside players willy-nilly as soon as it suits them?

There’s more to it than that I suspect. We are not privy to the back room negotiations that take place when contracts are up for renewal. For all we know, Treloar’s and Grundy’s manager might have played serious hardball.
Conversely, Elliot’s demands may have been far more modest and reasonable.
Performance obviously comes into it, and especially when you’re on the mega backs. Jordan De Goey, case in point.

 

[jonbe54]

Look thats a fair point but the League was created so players could get paid. Professionalism is a fact, the one amateur side University died in the arse.

You want monkeys? Pay peanuts. The old story about all Pies getting 3 quid (later increased to 5 quid) is true, but they also got golden handshakes in the rooms from John Wren, aa tenner here, a fiver there, so they could have their pay packet doubled or tripled off the books at the whim of some rich supporters: the truth is money is a great motivator. Also we weren't really paying them equally even when it was the Machine.

The Salary Cap kept a lot of clubs alive, maybe even ours. The money means they don't have to work as cops or teachers or whatever, where players used to cop injuries or retire because footy didn't pay the bills. We lost Bob Rose at age 27 to a police posting in rural Victoria.

Its not really reversible, and it was never really level.

You missed the point cyclops.

What about the 'lesser players' eh?

You know - those players the team has to pay 25 - 30% less than their actual value to the team because that 25 - 30% is gobbled up in the handful of big contracts.

There is a fine line between paying players what they are worth and paying extortion - which is what player managers practice.

Or do you think it's fine that 'non-stars' have to make do on less so that a handful can get more than they need?

 

[Looney]

Contract value is a seperate debate i.e. benefit versus cost.

Have a ponder though, your logic is flawed re Grundy. You are saying Pies aren't as good with him in it?

Follow the logic here, then why are supposedly teams like Geelong?Melbourne want him?

I thinks, your issue, is his contract value, is that correct?

But then why do we have to sweeten the deal by offering to pay $300k of his salary? There's still no guarantee that they'll take the bite. I'd rather keep him and transform him into a completely different player.

 

[ClaytonM]

Contract value is a seperate debate i.e. benefit versus cost.

Have a ponder though, your logic is flawed re Grundy. You are saying Pies aren't as good with him in it?

Follow the logic here, then why are supposedly teams like Geelong?Melbourne want him?

I thinks, your issue, is his contract value, is that correct?

I think it is a combination of both. If he was a better player his contract value would not be an issue.

While his contested work when ball is on the ground is beyond question, his main weaknesses are:

• very poor contested mark for his size.
• average at best tap ruckman
• poor as link player as his normally slows play down

Do you think Geelong, Melbourne or any other club are going to pay Grundy what we are paying him? That is the issue.

 

[Finnishpie]

Yet with the all conquering Grundy we lost to West Coast…

Without him we’ve beaten the reining premiers, twice.

Only time Melbourne has beaten us in the last 3 years was when Grundy played…

With Grundy we made a grand final. With the other two we haven’t made one.

I like this kind of logic.

 

[Finnishpie]

When you're strange
No one remembers your name

Not sure that’ll be the case for Eddie “logical fallacy” smith.

 

[JB1975]

I see Grundy's 'I will not be defined by a premiership' is still a topic of conversation.

I'm not surprised that some choose to dwell on such an irrelevant piece of the past, but I do reckon that it's a bit sad.

The fact that people can't identify his attitude as anything other than a healthy perspective on life (especially to things beyond his control) is boggling.

 

[TradeDraft]

Thinking with my heart here, but I’ll be shattered if Grundy is traded.

I feel the Exact Same

 

[Kappa]

There’s more to it than that I suspect. We are not privy to the back room negotiations that take place when contracts are up for renewal. For all we know, Treloar’s and Grundy’s manager might have played serious hardball.
Conversely, Elliot’s demands may have been far more modest and reasonable.
Performance obviously comes into it, and especially when you’re on the mega backs. Jordan De Goey, case in point.

Nope. Treloar decided to backend his deal to help the club out because the club was running out of cap space, then when it was time to pay that money the club kicked him out and publicly spread negative rumours about him and his family.

Treloar did nothing wrong, the club's actions however...

 

[jonbe54]

I feel the Exact Same

I believe the ball is in his court.

 

[lethalburns]

If we are putting up 300k p.a. I have to assume there is an expectation that we'll get some decent picks back in return?