Rumour 2023 Rumours and Speculation (Rumours total 33!, 1 BIG FISH ALERT last October 4th) (7 confirmed! 11 Busted!)

[GreyCrow]

IIRC There was media noise about the merits of sacking Hardwick for a fair portion of 2016.....

CBF looking it up now... Job for another time.

I think I agreed at the time or I felt Hardwick didn't have a flag in him.

Given he approached Clarkson GF week says he wasn't confident either.

But he certainly grabbed the bull by the horns after winning one

 

[BunjiMC]

Do we have any news regarding doedee? get the feeling that no contract signed by August is bags packed..

He was at the France v Morocco soccer tonight......

 

[MsTopG]

Where are we with with Burgos contract. I am hopeful he has been signed on for next year and beyond but it was something Nicks said a month or two ago at a press conference that worried me when he mentioned that the soft cap was not enough to keep everyone - good people at clubs like ours.

Burgo does not always stay for long periods of time at any club and could be in demand in AFL and football circles here and overseas? Anyone with intel here. We may not be able to pay him enough to keep him at the club,

Some good feedback on Hombsch from the young defenders in the SANFL Good to hear.

Maybe they have copied his program and they feel they can implement it without paying him 600k a year. Might be a mistake.

 

[MsTopG]

If we keep doedee.. especially if its on anything more than minimum chips, which it wont be of course.. then we‘re idiots.

worrell does everything doedee does and more.. for less money.

we keep doedee and then we have to play one of a player like doedee, MM, worrell or hinge etc in the sanfl.. we just cant fit them all in..

and if doedee is on the highest wage of all of them then he wont be the one playing sanfl.. it’ll be a guy like worrell..

because.. you know.. age and experience matters most to these idiots.

I reckon Tom will leave. I think he's had a precontract in place for a while

 

[Tex Danger]

ALFPA should really push for at the very least FA to be able to sign a contract with another club in the final year of contract (or maybe after a certain date like like mid yr rd 12) to protect the player.

Not have that publicly announced as were not ready for that but we know these things are worked out early anyway so if there is agreement then sign off on it, lodge it to the AFL and then in a case like this for Doedee that new club takes on the risk of a future injury just in the same way a player staying at his club who would have signed early the club takes on that risk.

Its a strange gap in the FA and even trade market for players that exposes them to extra risk if leaving, but not in a way that gives the current club any benefit (if that was the case id see no issue)

 

[Peter Doherty]

Maybe they have copied his program and they feel they can implement it without paying him 600k a year. Might be a mistake.

Yep, maybe.

 

[DJ75]

ALFPA should really push for at the very least FA to be able to sign a contract with another club in the final year of contract (or maybe after a certain date like like mid yr rd 12) to protect the player.

Not have that publicly announced as were not ready for that but we know these things are worked out early anyway so if there is agreement then sign off on it, lodge it to the AFL and then in a case like this for Doedee that new club takes on the risk of a future injury just in the same way a player staying at his club who would have signed early the club takes on that risk.

Its a strange gap in the FA and even trade market for players that exposes them to extra risk if leaving, but not in a way that gives the current club any benefit (if that was the case id see no issue)

Maybe the AFLPA should be active in actually protecting their players wellbeing, rather than just being an organisation that has it's hand out for money?

 

[ringo200]

IIRC There was media noise about the merits of sacking Hardwick for a fair portion of 2016.....

CBF looking it up now... Job for another time.

Imagine the narrative if Mark Thompson was sacked in 2006 when it was seriously considered and Geelong went on to have a similar record - had all the talent in the world but was holding them back etc...

A decision completely out of his control, whether the board backs him in or not, decides whether he is remembered as a coaching great or one of the worst appointments ever made.

 

[Bearded Clam]

ALFPA should really push for at the very least FA to be able to sign a contract with another club in the final year of contract (or maybe after a certain date like like mid yr rd 12) to protect the player.

Not have that publicly announced as were not ready for that but we know these things are worked out early anyway so if there is agreement then sign off on it, lodge it to the AFL and then in a case like this for Doedee that new club takes on the risk of a future injury just in the same way a player staying at his club who would have signed early the club takes on that risk.

Its a strange gap in the FA and even trade market for players that exposes them to extra risk if leaving, but not in a way that gives the current club any benefit (if that was the case id see no issue)

The problem is that the player themself is concerned that once they announce they are leaving or once they sign that new contract.. the club they are at will never pick them again.. then they will spend the rest of the season in the two’s missing out on match payments/bonuses etc..

Unlike the NRL where they go about it in a much more mature fashion..

Players announce all the time that they are leaving to go play for another club next season..

 

[PeterSalt]

Imagine the narrative if Mark Thompson was sacked in 2006 when it was seriously considered and Geelong went on to have a similar record - had all the talent in the world but was holding them back etc...

A decision completely out of his control, whether the board backs him in or not, decides whether he is remembered as a coaching great or one of the worst appointments ever made.

Pretty sure Thompson was retained after Geelong conducted a review on their football department

Hardwick was also retained after a club wide review .. which saw a few assistants moved on (Williams was the main 1) and provided him with more support

Buckley also survived a review and took Collingwood to a GF

 

[weekend at bernies]

He was at the France v Morocco soccer tonight......

sooo your saying he's off to PSG??

 

[Tex Danger]

The problem is that the player themself is concerned that once they announce they are leaving or once they sign that new contract.. the club they are at will never pick them again.. then they will spend the rest of the season in the two’s missing out on match payments/bonuses etc..

Unlike the NRL where they go about it in a much more mature fashion..

Players announce all the time that they are leaving to go play for another club next season..

That’s why I said not announce it.

They can just do same as now and “put off talks” and at a point we all know they’re leaving anyway.

Only the player, new club and afl (he’ll even not the afl as long as there’s a contract that’s enforceable) need to know.

It just takes the in principal agreement that currentky exists and moves it to something binding

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I think we could see a trend switch from coaches being sacked after they don't make finals, to coaches being sacked after they do but underperform in finals.

It's usually pretty difficult to say whether a rebuilding team is going well or failing in the early stages. Could very well be the list and not the coach. Yes there are some really horrible coaches (David Noble, Mark Neeld) but most super crappy teams have crappy lists.

What you don't want are the coaches that can take a team to finals but keep failing or falling. Like Leon Cameron at GWS. That's how you burn lists and that's where I think we'll see more coach changes

Might be good timing for us, if we see trend start soon, because it’s my biggest worry with Nicks.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think we could see a trend switch from coaches being sacked after they don't make finals, to coaches being sacked after they do but underperform in finals.

It's usually pretty difficult to say whether a rebuilding team is going well or failing in the early stages. Could very well be the list and not the coach. Yes there are some really horrible coaches (David Noble, Mark Neeld) but most super crappy teams have crappy lists.

What you don't want are the coaches that can take a team to finals but keep failing or falling. Like Leon Cameron at GWS. That's how you burn lists and that's where I think we'll see more coach changes

We are the only professional sport in the world that tolerates failure by coaches. I actually think our current culture in this space is poor. It means we condition ourselves to thinking there is no one better, so better the devil you know.

Soccer is brutal. I know of a Real Madrid coach who went a whole season undefeated, won all the trophies but was sacked because the team wasn't entertaining enough. I dont think football should go to that extent because thats absurd, but I do think clubs should role the dice more. 5 years should be around the maximum for any coach at a single club if they aren't winning premierships. That sort of thing.

 

[Mattrox]

We are the only professional sport in the world that tolerates failure by coaches. I actually think our current culture in this space is poor. It means we condition ourselves to thinking there is no one better, so better the devil you know.

Soccer is brutal. I know of a Real Madrid coach who went a whole season undefeated, won all the trophies but was sacked because the team wasn't entertaining enough. I dont think football should go to that extent because thats absurd, but I do think clubs should role the dice more. 5 years should be around the maximum for any coach at a single club if they aren't winning premierships. That sort of thing.

You would have sacked Hardwick in 2016

qf, qf, qf 13th Sacked

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[adelaidecrows]

You would have sacked Hardwick in 2016

qf, qf, qf 13th SackedView attachment 1769348

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But this is the thing, for every one hardwick there is a lot of coaches who don't do that. He is an exception. Its easy to say on hindsight that he shouldnt be but at the time when they went to 13th everyone was saying he should be sacked. Port have been banking on Hinkley doing a hardwick for 10 years. He hasn't and wont. The Crows banked on Craig doing his 2005/2006 again, never happened.

All I am suggesting is there are more examples than not of coaches staying too long. Its just the current culture.

 

[Mattrox]

But this is the thing, for every one hardwick there is a lot of coaches who don't do that. He is an exception. Its easy to say on hindsight that he shouldnt be but at the time when they went to 13th everyone was saying he should be sacked. Port have been banking on Hinkley doing a hardwick for 10 years. He hasn't and wont. The Crows banked on Craig doing his 2005/2006 again, never happened.

All I am suggesting is there are more examples than not of coaches staying too long. Its just the current culture.

Every coaching situation is unique. You can't just make a 5 year rule. You just want to preempt the "its been 5 years Sack Nicks".

Rebuilds are hard. Often the coach that starts them gets sacked, then is is re-started all over. Carlton sacked Ratten and blamed the coach. Then it became apparent that he was getting better out of the list than subsequent coaches. Club admin problems and politics stopped him.

Sacking a coach can make things worse too.



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[adelaidecrows]

Every coaching situation is unique. You can't just make a 5 year rule. You just want to preempt the "its been 5 years Sack Nicks".

Rebuilds are hard. Often the coach that starts them gets sacked, then is is re-started all over. Carlton sacked Ratten and blamed the coach. Then it became apparent that he was getting better out of the list than subsequent coaches. Club admin problems and politics stopped him.

Sacking a coach can make things worse too.

View attachment 1769388

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Not at all, and you are right about every coaching situation being different. However 5 seasons is 110 games of footy. Most players dont even get 20 games to prove themselves.

All I am stating is our coach culture when it comes to demands on on field performance as a coach is weak in comparison to other sports. A blanket rule of 5 years doesn't fit but it was just the ideology to highlight how some coaches should be moved on. We probably lose people to the game who would make exceptional coaches because the wait is just way too long. In most cases a lot of assistant coaches are in those roles for near a decade before given an opportunity.

 

[Scorpus]

Not at all, and you are right about every coaching situation being different. However 5 seasons is 110 games of footy. Most players dont even get 20 games to prove themselves.

All I am stating is our coach culture when it comes to demands on on field performance as a coach is weak in comparison to other sports. A blanket rule of 5 years doesn't fit but it was just the ideology to highlight how some coaches should be moved on. We probably lose people to the game who would make exceptional coaches because the wait is just way too long. In most cases a lot of assistant coaches are in those roles for near a decade before given an opportunity.

In other sports there are many more available mechanisms to improve the playing list, particularly in soccer which you referenced. The elite teams rarely have a "rebuilding" list

 

[Mattrox]

Not at all, and you are right about every coaching situation being different. However 5 seasons is 110 games of footy. Most players dont even get 20 games to prove themselves.

All I am stating is our coach culture when it comes to demands on on field performance as a coach is weak in comparison to other sports. A blanket rule of 5 years doesn't fit but it was just the ideology to highlight how some coaches should be moved on. We probably lose people to the game who would make exceptional coaches because the wait is just way too long. In most cases a lot of assistant coaches are in those roles for near a decade before given an opportunity.

Should we look at sacking a coach to poach a good coach?

Lyon, a coach with credentials, comes into coach a good list.... finals... Gf.... then the list ages and he doesn't know how to rebuild when the list dynamics change.

Sacking a coach and bringing in a "better" coach may not work either. The "better" coach then can't develop players and sets the club back on their next tilt.....

We have seen that this year with Clarkson losing his s#it at an inferior list that needs nurturing to build. Cooks himself in the process. Probably lost the players b4 he even really got going..... Let's see how this pans out.

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[adelaidecrows]

In other sports there are many more available mechanisms to improve the playing list, particularly in soccer which you referenced. The elite teams rarely have a "rebuilding" list

Oh I agree with that. The NFL and Basketball etc have the college system with ready to play players coming straight in. However, with soccer its only true of the top teams in the big leagues. Most clubs rely heavily on their junior academies.

All I am saying is we should be looking as an industry to keep the best coaching talent involved in the game. The wait for job availability, approximately 1 available job on average is too long. To just assume we dont have better coaches waiting in the wings is a misconception.

Ken Hinkley, Chris Fagan and Adam Simpson I think embodies this all to well. Three coaches straight off that imo have not proved another coach couldn't come in and do better. Nicks is the same. Chris Scott is another. He had 10 years between flags. Had he been replaced after 5 years after his first flag they may have won more flags. We don't know.

This is all I am getting at. We are conditioned as fans and clubs to assume we can't do better until we decide we can. We use finals as this magic marker as coach protection.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Should we look at sacking a coach to poach a good coach?

Lyon, a coach with credentials, comes into coach a good list.... finals... Gf.... then the list ages and he doesn't know how to rebuild when the list dynamics change.

Sacking a coach and bringing in a "better" coach may not work either. The "better" coach then can't develop players and sets the club back on their next tilt.....

We have seen that this year with Clarkson losing his s#it at an inferior list that needs nurturing to build. Cooks himself in the process. Probably lost the players b4 he even really got going..... Let's see how this pans out.View attachment 1769402

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Nope. Thats not what I am saying either. But thats not to say we dont have assistant coaches out there who would do better. And no this isnt a pre emptive strike at Nicks. Its purely an observation on the overall coaching culture of the AFL. Will it change.. lol no.

 

[Go the Guts]

Where are we with with Burgos contract. I am hopeful he has been signed on for next year and beyond but it was something Nicks said a month or two ago at a press conference that worried me when he mentioned that the soft cap was not enough to keep everyone - good people at clubs like ours.

Burgo does not always stay for long periods of time at any club and could be in demand in AFL and football circles here and overseas? Anyone with intel here. We may not be able to pay him enough to keep him at the club,

Some good feedback on Hombsch from the young defenders in the SANFL Good to hear.

From memory, the main thing that brought Burgess back to Adelaide was his family, and his kids being at school here in his home town.
At the time he said he would be staying for the foreseeable future.
He is as important (if not more) a cog to any premiership as any player, I am sure our management realise this and will be working on extending him for as long as possible.

 

[Mattrox]

Nope. Thats not what I am saying either. But thats not to say we dont have assistant coaches out there who would do better. And no this isnt a pre emptive strike at Nicks. Its purely an observation on the overall coaching culture of the AFL. Will it change.. lol no.

I think if things are going badly, a good club needs to do an independent, external review and accept the findings.....

Board interference... people resign....

players with poor attitudes... move them on...

Coaches inflexible.... new kpis

Recruitment failing to identify talent.... new staff

Development stalling despite decent talent ID... new staff.

The problem is everyone who is closer to the top keeps their jobs and everyone lower down is moved on.... usually startimg at the head coach as this appeases fans.

More often it is seriously complex and not just a head coach. But my god, they are the ones with the target, even if the board is shit and the coach is outperforming considering the resources deployed to assist.



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[Sanders]

ALFPA should really push for at the very least FA to be able to sign a contract with another club in the final year of contract (or maybe after a certain date like like mid yr rd 12) to protect the player.

That would create all sorts of problems, real and perceived

Is a player trying, is he really injured, what about when he plays against his future team?

The law of unintended consequence would be working overtime