List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

[Fadge]

The thing is that Ashcroft may be the new no.1 but he wasn't for much of the year. He was thereabouts but Smile, Smith, FOS, Lalor have all be no.1 at some stage of the season. He might have edged ahead at the end but there is not much in it, it is not unanimous, so there is hardly any point going on about Richmond missing the best player in the draft.

Besides, Richmond might not necessarily have picking Ashcroft because he is a bit similar to what we already have and we might be after something a bit different. Lalor, FOS perhaps.

Rubbish.

LAschroft has been #1 for most of the last two years, and the only 'analysts' who are saying otherwise are those which are taking into consideration the father/son situation.

Tell us all who Richmond already have who us 'similar' to the best 18yo in the country?

 

[Rich01]

Look them up if you're so ignorant...

Of course you didn’t.
You’re just here to raise ire.

 

[Fadge]

Of course you didn’t.
You’re just here to raise ire.

Of course I didn't what?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Of course I didn't what?

Lol, imagine being as naturally dumb as you and also acting dumb on top of that. Just be yourself mate, that is easily dumb enough.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Ashcroft is not Daicos.

Better.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I recalled the narrative differently but if that’s what you recall and read then sure. Not going to argue. I recall a lot calling him a generational talent and statistically the best underage player to ever go thru the underage system. It was real gleaming stuff. It has been pretty obvious since he walked in the door those pundits were accurate.

Right now I would comfortably put money on Levi Ashcroft for the rising star. His performance in the VFL for Brisbane was incredible. 35 touches and 2 goals in BOG showing. None of the other VFL try outs have come close to it

Levi could be even better than Will which would put him into GOAT contention. Already has the most successful junior career ever.

 

[Grin]

It’s trolling to say Richmond was genuinely shit in 2024 and your best players wanted out?? More just a fact really.

Well it's not fact. What is a fact is your obvious bitter rage and fear and loathing of Richmond.
You're a little bit pathetic if you want to know the truth. I feel sorry for you

It’s hard to beat a side that makes finals 6 times across 35 years in the AFL era.

That was my point, you intellectually challenged thing. Your team can't beat Richmond in finals, you're lucky we've only had one dynasty this century and you're obviously utterly terrified any prospect of the next.

I agree with you that it's a good thing that Geelong's been such an extraordinarily well run club and so competitive in the AFL era, because we all know that their supporters abandon their club quicker that a Corey Enright 300th game or an elimination final against Richmond at the very first sign of a challenge. There's no way the likes of you would stand by your club and rattle tins in your club's hour of need. If the tax payer and the AFL didn't carry your club, it would have folded years ago and you'd be a passionate Hawthorn supporter.

Off you go now and mash to the mods, as you do. You miserable humourless creature.

 

[Grrr]

Rubbish.

LAschroft has been #1 for most of the last two years, and the only 'analysts' who are saying otherwise are those which are taking into consideration the father/son situation.

Tell us all who Richmond already have who us 'similar' to the best 18yo in the country?

A good many pundits had FOS at no.1 this time last year.

We have medium paced players like Taranto, Hopper, Prestia and Ross. Sure Ashcroft looks better than all but still similar in that respect. Someone like Lalor with his power and Dusty qualities might suit us more, or FOS with speed, athleticism and class might also. But it's a mute argument, Ashcroft isn't coming our way so what is the point of this discussion. except to prove a hypothetical point.

 

[Fadge]

That was my point, you intellectually challenged thing. Your team can't beat Richmond in finals, you're lucky we've only had one dynasty this century and you're obviously utterly terrified any prospect of the next.

Yeah Geelong supporters...

You guys are so lucky Richmond have been absolutely shite for a majority of the last 4 decades!

 

[Footy Smarts]

We have medium paced players like Taranto, Hopper, Prestia and Ross. Sure Ashcroft looks better than all but still similar in that respect.

If you guys change who you take because of a cooked champion, an injury prone B-grader and a plodder it will be very funny.

 

[Grrr]

If you guys change who you take because of a cooked champion, an injury prone B-grader and a plodder it will be very funny.

Not sure if you've heard but Ashcroft is not available. Lalor and FOS are atop plenty of mock drafts, Smith and Smillie not far behind, and Draper looks pretty good. Not sure which one we will take, but none of them will make you laugh or mock or whatever.

How absurd, taking a player over another when you can throw a blanket over them all, because one might give you something you don't have, in our case a bit of speed. If we get North's no.2, we could well take FOS and Lalor, what a laugh.

 

[Grin]

Yeah Geelong supporters...

You guys are so lucky Richmond have been absolutely shite for a majority of the last 4 decades!

Absolutely. So lucky for Geelong that during the past 4 decades we've been as unsuccessful as Collingwood

 

[Footy Smarts]

Not sure if you've heard but Ashcroft is not available. Lalor and FOS are atop plenty of mock drafts, Smith and Smillie not far behind, and Draper looks pretty good. Not sure which one we will take, but none of them will make you laugh or mock or whatever.

How absurd, taking a player over another when you can throw a blanket over them all, because one might give you something you don't have, in our case a bit of speed. If we get North's no.2, we could well take FOS and Lalor, what a laugh.

Nah I fully expect you to get some very talented young players. You might even be able to wait until they produce some good performances at AFL level to talk them up. No more comparing Cumberland to Toby Greene while he's stuck in the VFL.

But you looking at Prestia, Ross and Hopper and thinking "nah best we avoid the slow inside types" is genuinely funny. They're exactly the types you should be replacing during the rebuild.

I honestly don't see why you would be interested in pick 2. Everyone knows the draft is very even up the top end. You'd be much better off trading a pick out for a future 1st than giving up 6+18 for 2 or something similar.

 

[Fadge]

Levi seems to be the top dog everywhere you look at the moment...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Well it's not fact. What is a fact is your obvious bitter rage and fear and loathing of Richmond.
You're a little bit pathetic if you want to know the truth. I feel sorry for you


That was my point, you intellectually challenged thing. Your team can't beat Richmond in finals, you're lucky we've only had one dynasty this century and you're obviously utterly terrified any prospect of the next.

I agree with you that it's a good thing that Geelong's been such an extraordinarily well run club and so competitive in the AFL era, because we all know that their supporters abandon their club quicker that a Corey Enright 300th game or an elimination final against Richmond at the very first sign of a challenge. There's no way the likes of you would stand by your club and rattle tins in your club's hour of need. If the tax payer and the AFL didn't carry your club, it would have folded years ago and you'd be a passionate Hawthorn supporter.

Off you go now and mash to the mods, as you do. You miserable humourless creature.

Ohh this is one gold tantrum. Love it!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Levi could be even better than Will which would put him into GOAT contention. Already has the most successful junior career ever.

Wouldn’t go that far?? Still have daicos junior year ahead. But he is clear no1 for mine and many others.

His VFL game was just insane

 

[Ashman23]

Richmond are tanking and I personally think 'good on them'. They're not contending anytime soon and were lucky that players were looking to move on and teams were happy to pay (or even overpay) to set the Tigers up with a multitude of high end draft picks.

As for the media, there will be 'nothing to see here'.

 

[THE_GUN]

Yeah Geelong supporters...

You guys are so lucky Richmond have been absolutely shite for a majority of the last 4 decades!

And still one of the most successful clubs in the land last 20 years and last 60 years with 8 premierships

Its just not fair ....................... Is it

 

[Grrr]

Nah I fully expect you to get some very talented young players. You might even be able to wait until they produce some good performances at AFL level to talk them up. No more comparing Cumberland to Toby Greene while he's stuck in the VFL.

But you looking at Prestia, Ross and Hopper and thinking "nah best we avoid the slow inside types" is genuinely funny. They're exactly the types you should be replacing during the rebuild.

I honestly don't see why you would be interested in pick 2. Everyone knows the draft is very even up the top end. You'd be much better off trading a pick out for a future 1st than giving up 6+18 for 2 or something similar.

How do you replace Hopper and Taranto other than sacking them. They are around for years, whether that is good or bad we will find out proper thius season. Ross is going well, Prestia on his last legs.

There are plenty of hard at it accumulators to draft, we will have pick 1 or so next year as well. To rise quickly, we need players that can win you games or produce special moment as well.

I'm half with you on trading picks but I am not a draft expert who has been following and watching most of their games as a team of recruiters have. So I will leave that to them. If we think Lalor, FOS, Smith is worth it, so be it.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Rubbish.

LAschroft has been #1 for most of the last two years, and the only 'analysts' who are saying otherwise are those which are taking into consideration the father/son situation.

Tell us all who Richmond already have who us 'similar' to the best 18yo in the country?

I don't know if this is entirely true.

Smillie appeared to be the consensus number 1 early this season until he stagnated somewhat.

Smith and O'Sullivan also had their fans for the number 1 spot.

Ashcroft now looks like the best available player if you take out father-son/academy bids, but it's after a full season of footy has concluded.

He's definitely been one of the leading contenders to be 'Number 1 for the last 2 years' at the very least.

 

[Footy Smarts]

How do you replace Hopper and Taranto other than sacking them. They are around for years, whether that is good or bad we will find out proper thius season. Ross is going well, Prestia on his last legs.

Most draftee inside mids don't really mature until 4-5 years in the system. They'll play rotation roles until then.

By then Prestia will be long gone. Hopper will be 31-32 and already looks cooked at 27. Taranto will be 30-31.

If Ross is ever a starting inside mid you've got major issues. 6th year in the system and he was behind Thomson Dow in the queue for centre square minutes.

There's clearly a need for inside mids and basically everything else.

 

[blaisee]

Most draftee inside mids don't really mature until 4-5 years in the system. They'll play rotation roles until then.

By then Prestia will be long gone. Hopper will be 31-32 and already looks cooked at 27. Taranto will be 30-31.

If Ross is ever a starting inside mid you've got major issues. 6th year in the system and he was behind Thomson Dow in the queue for centre square minutes.

There's clearly a need for inside mids and basically everything else.

Inside mids show they make it immediately, very rare that it takes 4 years to see, maybe they grow to be serviceable, but an elite mid is an elite mid in Yr1, Yr 2 max

So taking 3 mids that are elite will immediately improve the team, if they are to make it, they will make it straight away, it will be clear very early if they will be elite.

Case in point Jhye Clark, he was supposed to replace Joes Selwood, but by comparison he is miles behind at the same age, produces about 50% of what Selwood produced at the same age, and that gap, I am sorry to say, is never ever going to be made up.

Jhye Clark and Joel Selwood AFL Stats Comparison

Jhye Clark and Joel Selwood AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

So going back to Richmond 1st year elite mids will impact immediately, Richmond will hope to get 3 in this draft
I do agree with something you said though, trading up for 2 is unlikely, unless Nth completely bend over.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Inside mids show they make it immediately, very rare that it takes 4 years to see, maybe they grow to be serviceable, but an elite mid is an elite mid in Yr1, Yr 2 max

So taking 3 mids that are elite will immediately improve the team, if they are to make it, they will make it straight away, it will be clear very early if they will be elite.

Case in point Jhye Clark, he was supposed to replace Joes Selwood, but by comparison he is miles behind at the same age, produces about 50% of what Selwood produced at the same age, and that gap, I am sorry to say, is never ever going to be made up.

Jhye Clark and Joel Selwood AFL Stats Comparison

Jhye Clark and Joel Selwood AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

So going back to Richmond 1st year elite mids will impact immediately, Richmond will hope to get 3 in this draft
I do agree with something you said though, trading up for 2 is unlikely, unless Nth completely bend over.

This is delusion. Almost none of the big body players are elite inside mids in year 1.

Cripps barely played year 1. Fyfe and Danger were skinny forwards. Even Selwood was an outside midfielder in his early years and only really became a dominant inside mid in 2010.

Thank you for the drive by on Jhye Clark. Jury is out and we'll see what he becomes. He has some talent, you can see why he was taken really and Geelong recently have very rarely made mistakes with players they've put games in to early. But we'll see and yes he's almost zero chance to be as good as Selwood. Which isn't exactly a huge statement.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Richmond are tanking and I personally think 'good on them'. They're not contending anytime soon and were lucky that players were looking to move on and teams were happy to pay (or even overpay) to set the Tigers up with a multitude of high end draft picks.

As for the media, there will be 'nothing to see here'.

What actually constitutes tanking?? How can you claim they are actually better than they performed?? That list has probably the worst youth in the AFL and most of their senior stars were cooked.

It was an absolute atrocious list.

Don’t think it’s fair to say they didn’t try, they put in a lot of effort. Being good enough to win games was another question which they obviously weren’t.

Their star players rightfully want out with how bleak the future looks for them.

They deserve the draft picks they have. It is through performance (genuinely shit list) and poor culture with players wanting to leave.

None of the above is tanking, it’s incompetence.

Two completely different things

 

[blaisee]

This is delusion. Almost none of the big body players are elite inside mids in year 1.

Cripps barely played year 1. Fyfe and Danger were skinny forwards. Even Selwood was an outside midfielder in his early years and only really became a dominant inside mid in 2010.

Thank you for the drive by on Jhye Clark. Jury is out and we'll see what he becomes. He has some talent, you can see why he was taken really and Geelong recently have very rarely made mistakes with players they've put games in to early. But we'll see and yes he's almost zero chance to be as good as Selwood. Which isn't exactly a huge statement.

we can do this all day ,

I said Yr 1 or 2

Paddy Cripps also doubled Clarks production at the same age

Patrick Cripps and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Patrick Cripps and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

so did Fyfe

Nathan Fyfe and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Nathan Fyfe and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Danger got more of the ball than clark, but also kicked 26 goals

Patrick Dangerfield and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Patrick Dangerfield and Jhye Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Not saying Clark will not grow into a serviceable player, but elite is one thing he wont be.