Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

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It's not so much Roberton himself (though that's a big part of it) it's what else we could've done with that list spot. Colquhoun, Haynes etc didn't get drafted, Tippett was a possibility, and we've given that up for someone who might be an ok player in a position where we have multiple and better options? Just can't see the sense in it.
Exactly my POV. I have nothing against Roberton personally, or how he plays, necessarily, just like I had nothing personal against Raph and I was one that was still backing him in mid-way through this year, but I just look at the alternatives and struggle to see how we couldn't have used that last spot on our list better and plugged another bigger hole, rather than just add to an area where we didn't really have a hole to fill at all and where bringing in someone like him could ****** the progress of someone talented and younger who we already have on our list, who plays in his position.

Eyebrows were raised when it was announced that we had traded for TDL, despite the fact we already have an abundance of others on the list and the starting 22 who play in his position (including Minchington, who by all reports is very talented, but who's progress could now be stunted by the addition of TDL) and are likely to be in front of him for a spot there and it just seems like more of the same with Dylan. In fact I'm not even sure why either of them would particularly want to be at our club, given how many are likely to be ahead of them for a spot in the position they play. Surely there are other clubs that have needs in those areas more than we do, where they would have been more of a chance to walk straight into their team?

I think we should treat every spot on our list like gold and these two selections seem like "coaches favoutites selections" (Watters having coached TDL at Subi and Micale having coached Roberton, or whatever), rather than essential selections that are genuinely going to either cover an actual need, or else significantly strengthen our list.

I mean does anyone see either of them being in our best 22 next year, once you've sat down and put a 22 on paper? Because if not, it just seems like a very questionable selection to draft two who are ready to go now, but who there isn't really a spot for, meaning they are quite likely to stagnate in the VFL. It's one thing to draft for depth, but it's a whole other thing to draft for depth in positions where we already have adequate depth.

It certainly doesn't mean that I'm not going to support Roberton, or TDL, though and I'm not going to say any of this stuff to them, or pretend it's their fault that the club recruited them and take it out on them if it doesn't work out, and saying all this will actually help me to get it out of my system, so that I am going to be more inclined to really support them. It also doesn't mean that I don't support the club, because anyone who reads what I say on here knows I do, but at the same time I'm not just going to mindlessly assume that everything the club does is going to turn to gold and cheer on every single thing they do, if I feel that the move they have made is not the best one they could have. There have been plenty of things over the years that the club has done that I thought at the time were very questionable, if not downright mistakes, which have proved to be that way, so I'm going to keep on backing my judgement on these things, just as I would expect the club to back theirs.

If anyone is perfectly OK with all the good things we say about the club, then they ought to also be able to take it if we question certain things the club does occasionally.

This is surely a place for debate and discussing the merits of what the club are doing, not just cheerleading.
 
Bit of a strange signing on the surface, the Roberton one, but I trust the coaching staff to have something up their sleeve with it so I hope he works out and I hope he will get our full support.

One thing which stands out with him is his massive tank. That alone puts him ahead of Winmar. But speaking of other positions he can play for a minute besides half-back, with his tank, maybe they are looking to add another shut-down mid-fielder to our rotation instead of having to use CJ? Ray and Roberton could play those roles well potentially. Not sure about his skills though. Many on this thread have questioned them while the couple of Freo fans that came on to our board said he had good skills.... Anyway, I look forward to seeing how he goes and what plans the coaching staff have for him as it is a bit puzzling at the moment.
 

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Jeez your getting worked up alot over one little word that get thrown around on here and on forums every single day.
All it takes is one little match to start a fire, or in the case of a place like Big Footy, one little comment to start a flame-war, as we've seen so many times in the past. Just because others do it, doesn't mean you have to follow them and start playing the man if you don't like their opinion.

Apart from anything else, that is what leads to threads like this one getting started: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-tone-sainters.980050/

I see you were one of those who "liked" Fehring's OP. Yet less than a month later here you are playing the man again. Its not necessary. If you have a good point to make, you can make it without getting personal against others who are just giving their views on here, which they have every right to do. Not that any of us can't take it if we have to, but I just don't think we should have to here.
 
Bit of a strange signing on the surface, the Roberton one, but I trust the coaching staff to have something up their sleeve with it so I hope he works out and I hope he will get our full support.

One thing which stands out with him is his massive tank. That alone puts him ahead of Winmar. But speaking of other positions he can play for a minute besides half-back, with his tank, maybe they are looking to add another shut-down mid-fielder to our rotation instead of having to use CJ? Ray and Roberton could play those roles well potentially. Not sure about his skills though. Many on this thread have questioned them while the couple of Freo fans that came on to our board said he had good skills.... Anyway, I look forward to seeing how he goes and what plans the coaching staff have for him as it is a bit puzzling at the moment.


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Good news re Minchington. He is in the Lenny Video Diary from day one of the Boulder trip (on the Saints website- He is behind Armo in the hnadballing drill, if I'm not mistaken at about the 2min 20 sec mark). Very glad that he is still on the list. :thumbsu:

So that seems to indicate that everyone is over there except Gilbert, if what someone said that Shenton and Staley being over there is true, so we presumably won't be participating in the rookie draft.
 

Well, what else could it be? Trying to come up with suggestions of where they are thinking of playing the bloke as half-back most likely isn't an option (as we have a plethora of them). He has a massive tank (top 2 in Freo's time trials) so can run all day. They must have something in mind for him. Even an inept recruiting department (and I don't believe ours is) don't just draft a bloke for the fun of it. There must be a plan and it is worth exploring all of the options, even if they sound a bit left-field. A defender not tall enough for KPD with a massive tank, can't play forward, Freo fans say has good skills... yeah, tagger is a REALLY crazy idea by me :rolleyes:.....
 
Well, what else could it be? Trying to come up with suggestions of where they are thinking of playing the bloke as half-back most likely isn't an option (as we have a plethora of them). He has a massive tank (top 2 in Freo's time trials) so can run all day. They must have something in mind for him. Even an inept recruiting department (and I don't believe ours is) don't just draft a bloke for the fun of it. There must be a plan and it is worth exploring all of the options, even if they sound a bit left-field. A defender not tall enough for KPD with a massive tank, can't play forward, Freo fans say has good skills... yeah, tagger is a REALLY crazy idea by me :rolleyes:.....
I dont think he's particularly quick.
 
Well, what else could it be? Trying to come up with suggestions of where they are thinking of playing the bloke as half-back most likely isn't an option (as we have a plethora of them). He has a massive tank (top 2 in Freo's time trials) so can run all day. They must have something in mind for him. Even an inept recruiting department (and I don't believe ours is) don't just draft a bloke for the fun of it. There must be a plan and it is worth exploring all of the options, even if they sound a bit left-field. A defender not tall enough for KPD with a massive tank, can't play forward, Freo fans say has good skills... yeah, tagger is a REALLY crazy idea by me :rolleyes:.....

its HBF/BP or bust for him i reckon. he could swing fwd but i think we have better options who have a better goal sense. also have better options to push up onto the wing.
 
I dont think he's particularly quick.

Maybe so but neither is Ray though, CJ isn't a rocket. If they get their positioning right, taggers don't necessarily need out and out speed. Look, I'm just trying to throw up some potential roles the bloke can fill looking at his attributes as on the surface, it doesn't look like he would slot into our back-line as it is and I trust our recruiters have something in store for him. Will be interesting to see.
 
its HBF/BP or bust for him i reckon. he could swing fwd but i think we have better options who have a better goal sense. also have better options to push up onto the wing.

It really depends what they have in mind. Do you remember watching Farren Ray at the Bulldogs? He was considered a soft type receiver with good reason I think too. Now I would say he is one of our most courageous and hard at it players. I've lost count of the amount of marks he takes backing back into serious traffic. I actually think "softness" is something players can turn around so I hope Roberton, knowing his career is on the line and is on his last chance, will take Ray's lead and ensure that no one could accuse him of being soft again. Time will tell.
 
Maybe so but neither is Ray though, CJ isn't a rocket. If they get their positioning right, taggers don't necessarily need out and out speed. Look, I'm just trying to throw up some potential roles the bloke can fill looking at his attributes as on the surface, it doesn't look like he would slot into our back-line as it is and I trust our recruiters have something in store for him. Will be interesting to see.

yeh good idea to throw up options. he's going to find it tough to break through into our backline. will probably find himself stuck at sandi. so other options would be handy!!!! defencive fwd?
 

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Just a bit of emotion this afternoon gentlemen and ladies - WOW!!

Although I'm not sure about the recruitment of Roberton, you have to trust in what the Club is doing. He wouldn't be my first choice but he has some positive attributes including 3 years in the system and the tank to run all day. He could be a tagger - who knows. As some people have already suggested, the club wouldn't pick up a guy without a plan in mind. The whole recruitment/list management process is so scientific nowadays too. We will just have to wait and see...

I hope Saints supporters will at least give him a go and be patient with him. I've been brought up to support your team and players - no matter what! Players are trying to do the right thing. I know it is every supporters right to support how they want.....but I don't understand why some fans come to the football and all they do is bag their own players....
 
It really depends what they have in mind. Do you remember watching Farren Ray at the Bulldogs? He was considered a soft type receiver with good reason I think too. Now I would say he is one of our most courageous and hard at it players. I've lost count of the amount of marks he takes backing back into serious traffic. I actually think "softness" is something players can turn around so I hope Roberton, knowing his career is on the line and is on his last chance, will take Ray's lead and ensure that no one could accuse him of being soft again. Time will tell.

you raise a very very good point. if we can turn him into a ray/raph type of hardness and courage i think it will go a long way to him staying a saint rather than spending a year or 2 at sandi and then getting the axe

maybe fix his unco movements as well
 
I think we're in great hands with Watters, Pelchen etc and have total faith in them and as I've said many times I think they've all been god-sends, but I'm also aware that coaches don't get everything right so this "support them for absolutely anything no matter what" I won't buy into. Surely everyone here is sick to death of coming close, we all want a flag so if I see something that I think doesn't give us the best shot of that of course I'm not going to be thrilled. We could've found our future FB or a star that wasn't drafted (don't make me go through the names of rookies or late picks that became guns) but instead we played it safe, so I'm a bit disappointed.

I'll give him a chance of course but in all honesty if he works out, well what does that give us really? A good HB which we already have plenty of who no doubt have more potential than he does. Some might say competition for spots but there's plenty of that going on anyway. Bit of a puzzler for mine.
 
I think we're in great hands with Watters, Pelchen etc and have total faith in them and as I've said many times I think they've all been god-sends, but I'm also aware that coaches don't get everything right so this "support them for absolutely anything no matter what" I won't buy into. Surely everyone here is sick to death of coming close, we all want a flag so if I see something that I think doesn't give us the best shot of that of course I'm not going to be thrilled. We could've found our future FB or a star that wasn't drafted (don't make me go through the names of rookies or late picks that became guns) but instead we played it safe, so I'm a bit disappointed.

I'll give him a chance of course but in all honesty if he works out, well what does that give us really? A good HB which we already have plenty of who no doubt have more potential than he does. Some might say competition for spots but there's plenty of that going on anyway. Bit of a puzzler for mine.

+1. strong debate = strong club.

we had quite a bit of blind faith in ross looking back probably a bit too much. we dont want to go down that path again.
 
It's not so much Roberton himself (though that's a big part of it) it's what else we could've done with that list spot. Colquhoun, Haynes etc didn't get drafted, Tippett was a possibility, and we've given that up for someone who might be an ok player in a position where we have multiple and better options? Just can't see the sense in it.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Whether Roberton is a hack or not, I don't know (I DO know I'm yet to hear much that impresses me). Fact is, he's a player for a role we already have depth in. AT, you're right, we only have a few 190ish backline players - but we have ABSOLUTELY NO 195+ backline players that have the weight and muscle for the job. None. Zip. Nada. We have ignored Tippett. It's irresponsible.

As we have also said several times, we are also seriously struggling to win clearances. And we have Cockie who, from all reports, our coach assured would be picked up if he did all the right things. It's hard to see how much better he would have had to play in the Zebs. Seems like he did all the right things to me. A need - and a coach's assurance - have gone begging.

And for what? A guy who - even if he isn't a spud - is behind at LEAST two, and probably a lot more players. We just got a Zebra for the year, instead of getting either of those two.

And yes, the recruiters are professionals and all that. It doesn't stop us making judgements as fans based on reasonable assessment of the facts at hand. And my assessment is that this is a poor decision in list management, an unfathomable decision.

The only reason I can think of is Defacto's idea, that Micale put in a good (and rather strong) word for the boy. This is just a few steps down from nepotism, if true, in my book.
 
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