Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

[Defacto]

I don't know to be honest, you've obviously seen him play much more than me, where do you think he could play other than half back?

so if you dont know, why would you bring up the role change under watters to somehow change what we have seen in the last 3 years?

 

[saintsrfreak]

so if you dont know, why would you bring up the role change under watters to somehow change what we have seen in the last 3 years?

I just said why, because I don't believe we would've recruited him to play at half back because we have a plethora of them already.

 

[stkildathunda]

Are you referring to me there, because I see you mentioning the Raph "whipping boy" thing and am wondering exactly who you are referring to with that anaolgy? Because from what I have seen, most of us who are against this move are getting into the club about the decision to recruit him, not getting into Roberton himself, hence my saying, in the post you quoted: "or an opinion of the clubs choice to recruit him, unless it is the same as theirs".


Fair enough, but I see Fisher and Dempster playing at least 2-3 more years and you don't recruit someone who is 21 and has played 3 seasons, with a reasonable amount of senior footy in them, because you want them to be ready to come in in 2-3 years time. I don't see him being kept on the list that long if he isn't in the 22 within probably 12 months. Blake I don't have in the senior team anyway, so I consider him almost "gone" already.

If we were just recruiting someone for "depth", I just personally believe that we have other areas where we have more of a need and am pretty sure I am entitled to my opinion and my say.

Sorry i didnt realize people calling him soft, a hack, useless was actually having a go at the recruiting, not Roberton himself. I replied to your post because quite clearly you were having a go at me. Once again, WHERE HAVE I SAID YOU CANT HAVE YOUR OWN OPINION? Seriously you and Defacto keep harping on about it but ive never said it. It appears by your comments, especially bolded one, that its you guys that believe your only allowed opinions on here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've just looked at the stats of some of the defenders and ( based on the stats ) Robberton seems to be more of a ball winner than a spoiler.

I looked at stats divided by %TOG ( to give a theoretical number which is what it would be if they'd all played 100% game time for the year).
Contested Posessions:
Roberton: 161, Silvagny 94, Dawson 113, Simpkin 87
Contested Marks:
Roberton: 16, Silvagny 5, Dawson 15, Simpkin 15
1% ers
Roberton: 51, Silvagny 137, Dawson 204, Simpkin 157.

To me, it seems that his style of play will only make him a good third man up. He seems to be a ball winner rather than a spoiler, and a ball winner wont stop the biggest forwards from getting it.
Someone tell me I'm wrong and the stats are lying. Please?

 

[Defacto]

Sorry i didnt realize people calling him soft, a hack, useless was actually having a go at the recruiting, not Roberton himself. I replied to your post because quite clearly you were having a go at me. Once again, WHERE HAVE I SAID YOU CANT HAVE YOUR OWN OPINION? Seriously you and Defacto keep harping on about it but ive never said it. It appears by your comments, especially bolded one, that its you guys that believe your only allowed opinions on here.

so how's this different to you saying dower could not play as a KPD? and commenting on other players we should not recruit, using their history for other clubs as supporting evidence?

when did we call him a hack? you complain about people putting extra words into posts and then you just did that very thing.

we all love this club theres no reason to make it personal and insight flaming by using an emotive "whipping boy" post to alienate and belittle posters.

its also not like we havent seen him play. he's been in the system for 3 years!!!! after 1-2 we've made calls on other players, some never played a senior game and only played VFL. i dont see how this is any different.

 

[Defacto]

I've just looked at the stats of some of the defenders and ( based on the stats ) Robberton seems to be more of a ball winner than a spoiler.

I looked at stats divided by %TOG ( to give a theoretical number which is what it would be if they'd all played 100% game time for the year).
Contested Posessions:
Roberton: 161, Silvagny 94, Dawson 113, Simpkin 87
Contested Marks:
Roberton: 16, Silvagny 5, Dawson 15, Simpkin 15
1% ers
Roberton: 51, Silvagny 137, Dawson 204, Simpkin 157.

To me, it seems that his style of play will only make him a good third man up. He seems to be a ball winner rather than a spoiler, and a ball winner wont stop the biggest forwards from getting it.
Someone tell me I'm wrong and the stats are lying. Please?

replace ball winner with ball receiver

 

[stkildathunda]

so how's this different to you saying dower could not play as a KPD? and commenting on other players we should not recruit, using their history for other clubs as supporting evidence?

when did we call him a hack? you complain about people putting extra words into posts and then you just did that very thing.

we all love this club theres no reason to make it personal and insight flaming by using an emotive "whipping boy" post to alienate and belittle posters.

its also not like we havent seen him play. he's been in the system for 3 years!!!! after 1-2 we've made calls on other players, some never played a senior game and only played VFL. i dont see how this is any different.

Where did I say this about Dowler? Ive said he'd be an option but not the best option. I've been one his biggest fans with his form at Sandringham this year. Held down key back position all year. Can he take step upto AFL, probably not but I still reckon he could have been worth a gamble.

People have called Roberton a hack in this thread, and other threads. Not saying anyone has today but they have.

 

[saintwazza]

Roberton = Raph replacement. Would have preferred Tippett by a mile.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Can anyone seriously come up with a valid reason for this signing?

(p.s. I've never seen him play...just looking at his dimensions, role, style etc - just doesn't seem the right fit to me)

 

[mysainters]

Its like 09 all over again. What were they thinking!!!!!

Exaggeration much?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sorry i didnt realize people calling him soft, a hack, useless was actually having a go at the recruiting, not Roberton himself.

The problem is that you are never specific when you make a comment like that, (below) so it is difficult to know who you are referring to when you do, but you seemed to be having a crack at anyone who was against the move, which is why I posted what I did.

Were you referring to me as one of the "experts" in your little snide post here:

Well I guess the club has found a Raph Clarke replacement judging by comments of the experts on here!! Roberton is new whipping boy and he hasnt even set foot in the club yet

Prior to that post, everyone here was playing the ball and giving their opinions on this move by the club, which they are entitled to, on a forum set up for such things, but with that post of yours you turned it on us, as you've done so many times in the past (although, as I said, it is not necessarily easy to know who you are aiming it at, because you never/rarely have the guts to mention anyone specifically, when you take your little shots like that), basically saying with that little "experts" shot that they are not in fact entitled to their opinion, hence my reply.

Once again, WHERE HAVE I SAID YOU CANT HAVE YOUR OWN OPINION?

Right here:

Well I guess the club has found a Raph Clarke replacement judging by comments of the experts on here!! Roberton is new whipping boy and he hasnt even set foot in the club yet

Seriously you and Defacto keep harping on about it but ive never said it. It appears by your comments, especially bolded one, that its you guys that believe your only allowed opinions on here.

No, we're not, we just don't believe that we, or anyone here, should be attacked for having an opinion, or that anyone should start playing the man and not the ball. We were all playing the ball until you turned it on us, as you have done plenty of times in the past when you haven't liked what is being said.

Most of those who are not happy with this move said so prior to it happening and have remained consistent with their views the whole way though. They're not just going to change their views on it simply because he is wearing a St Kilda jumper right now. It doesn't mean we won't support him and hope that he has a great career for us, but it doesn't mean we have to be happy with it when we are not.

 

[mysainters]

Can anyone seriously come up with a valid reason for this signing?

Can anyone seriously come up with a valid reason for not signing him?

Because the ones I'm reading aren't so much valid or informed.

He has trained with the Saints, they've seen something they like, let it fail before we jump all over it I reckon.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

3 reasons: We need a FB
We need another inside mid 25 years old
We could take the chance on another talent youngster in the RD

 

[mysainters]

3 reasons: We need a FB
We need another inside mid 25 years old
We could take the chance on another talent youngster in the RD

Absolutely we need a fullback, but that isn't Dylan's fault
I'm not so sure about that, I think there will be a bit of shifting around next season
21 doesn't qualify as a youngster?

 

[Defacto]

Where did I say this about Dowler? Ive said he'd be an option but not the best option. I've been one his biggest fans with his form at Sandringham this year. Held down key back position all year. Can he take step upto AFL, probably not but I still reckon he could have been worth a gamble.

People have called Roberton a hack in this thread, and other threads. Not saying anyone has today but they have.

dowler isnt the best example but its the first that came to mind. this is a better example:

God no we don't need Silvangi. Is just another Simpkin but about 100 times worse. Doesn't fix any problems on our list. Isn't upto AFL football

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...-agency-thread-3.976420/page-77#post-26051523

how is this any different to what people are saying about roberton????

when have i used the term hack to describe roberton? who labelled him a hack?

again i dont get why you came in, taking shots at people, accussing them (i still dont understand who you were referring too) of making him a a whipping boy. its only going to start a flame war and alienate people.

 

[stkildathunda]

The problem is that you are never specific when you make a comment like that, (below) so it is difficult to know who you are referring to when you do, but you seemed to be having a crack at anyone who was against the move, which is why I posted what I did.

Were you referring to me as one of the "experts" in your little snide post here: Prior to that post, everyone here was playing the ball and giving their opinions on this move by the club, which they are entitled to, on a forum set up for such things, but with that post of yours you turned it on us, as you've done so many times in the past (although, as I said, it is not necessarily easy to know who you are aiming it at, because you never/rarely have the guts to mention anyone specifically, when you take your little shots like that), basically saying with that little "experts" shot that they are not in fact entitled to their opinion, hence my reply.


Right here:

No, we're not, we just don't believe that we, or anyone here, should be attacked for having an opinion, or that anyone should start playing the man and not the ball. We were all playing the ball until you turned it on us, as you have done plenty of times in the past when you haven't liked what is being said.

Most of those who are not happy with this move said so prior to it happening and have remained consistent with their views the whole way though. They're not just going to change their views on it simply because he is wearing a St Kilda jumper right now. It doesn't mean we won't support him and hope that he has a great career for us, but it doesn't mean we have to be happy with it when we are not.

Jeez your getting worked up alot over one little word that get thrown around on here and on forums every single day.

 

[Defacto]

3 reasons: We need a FB
We need another inside mid 25 years old
We could take the chance on another talent youngster in the RD

well said. theres so many better options that roberton out there, that have shown more and are a better fit to where our list is at ATM

 

[SaintsSeptember]

replace ball winner with ball receiver

I doubt that the AFL statisticians would have credited him with the 5 cp's per game if he wasn't winning them.

Just thought I'd randomly mention that Ferguson came 5th in Sandringham's best and fairest last year.

StKilda's comments before the season were:
_________________________________________________________
In his first year on the Rookie List, he played six senior VFL games and four reserves games before shoulder and thumb injuries brought his season to a close.
The Saints see him as a defender, but he has also played as a key forward.
Jackson’s athleticism and determination were key components in the Club’s decision to take him on and he will be interesting to watch this season after overcoming his injuries during the pre-season.
__________________________________________________________

Not sure that he's any less of a key defender than Roberton.

 

[Defacto]

The problem is that you are never specific when you make a comment like that, (below) so it is difficult to know who you are referring to when you do, but you seemed to be having a crack at anyone who was against the move, which is why I posted what I did.

Were you referring to me as one of the "experts" in your little snide post here: Prior to that post, everyone here was playing the ball and giving their opinions on this move by the club, which they are entitled to, on a forum set up for such things, but with that post of yours you turned it on us, as you've done so many times in the past (although, as I said, it is not necessarily easy to know who you are aiming it at, because you never/rarely have the guts to mention anyone specifically, when you take your little shots like that), basically saying with that little "experts" shot that they are not in fact entitled to their opinion, hence my reply.


Right here:

No, we're not, we just don't believe that we, or anyone here, should be attacked for having an opinion, or that anyone should start playing the man and not the ball. We were all playing the ball until you turned it on us, as you have done plenty of times in the past when you haven't liked what is being said.

Most of those who are not happy with this move said so prior to it happening and have remained consistent with their views the whole way though. They're not just going to change their views on it simply because he is wearing a St Kilda jumper right now. It doesn't mean we won't support him and hope that he has a great career for us, but it doesn't mean we have to be happy with it when we are not.

well summed up. nailed it.

 

[stkildathunda]

dowler isnt the best example but its the first that came to mind. this is a better example:


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...-agency-thread-3.976420/page-77#post-26051523

how is this any different to what people are saying about roberton????

when have i used the term hack to describe roberton? who labelled him a hack?

again i dont get why you came in, taking shots at people, accussing them (i still dont understand who you were referring too) of making him a a whipping boy. its only going to start a flame war and alienate people.

When did I say you used the term? Other people have, you guys seem to think its just you 2 on this forum.

BTW its not just me that agree he is all sudden new whipping boy at club.

I was having an opinion on the situation, and MY OPINION was it appeared he was the new whipping boy. But i forgot im not allowed an opinion

Oh and for the record if Roberton was signed by the Saints I probably would have said he was the new whipping boy judging by everyones (mine included) on him.

 

[Defacto]

I doubt that the AFL statisticians would have credited him with the 5 cp's per game if he wasn't winning them.

Just thought I'd randomly mention that Ferguson came 5th in Sandringham's best and fairest last year.

StKilda's comments before the season were:
_________________________________________________________
In his first year on the Rookie List, he played six senior VFL games and four reserves games before shoulder and thumb injuries brought his season to a close.
The Saints see him as a defender, but he has also played as a key forward.
Jackson’s athleticism and determination were key components in the Club’s decision to take him on and he will be interesting to watch this season after overcoming his injuries during the pre-season.
__________________________________________________________

Not sure that he's any less of a key defender than Roberton.

i havent seen enough of ferguson to comment on him. never said he was a KPD. not sure where you got that from....

but you've obviously seen a bit of him. do you liken him to roberton?

 

[mysainters]

I doubt that the AFL statisticians would have credited him with the 5 cp's per game if he wasn't winning them.

Just thought I'd randomly mention that Ferguson came 5th in Sandringham's best and fairest last year.

StKilda's comments before the season were:
_________________________________________________________
In his first year on the Rookie List, he played six senior VFL games and four reserves games before shoulder and thumb injuries brought his season to a close.
The Saints see him as a defender, but he has also played as a key forward.
Jackson’s athleticism and determination were key components in the Club’s decision to take him on and he will be interesting to watch this season after overcoming his injuries during the pre-season.
__________________________________________________________

Not sure that he's any less of a key defender than Roberton.

I think Jackson will eventually push out Fisher....

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Can anyone seriously come up with a valid reason for this signing?

(p.s. I've never seen him play...just looking at his dimensions, role, style etc - just doesn't seem the right fit to me)

I feel like this is everyone in the thread. Who's watched many if any of this kids games? I recognised the name but had no idea who he was until pretty much the other day.

Surely we should wait till he gets a game and we see how he plays before berating him and the coaches.

 

[Saint Bostriots]

Jumped on BF | see we had a heap of new post | sweet we must've picked up someone ...........

 

[mysainters]

Well now...

Bit angry pants on here this arvo.

Stand in front of the nearest aircon and breathe people....breathe.