List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion II - Draft Day

[Barrels]

NSW cricket carrying the country, agree with trigger tho iys pretty hard for legends like scotty boland to get a gigwhen Cummins hazlewood and Starc are gifted games

Uhhhhh huh...

 

[Quixote]

It’s all about actions.

View attachment 440509

Look deep into my eyes... and you will see a $150 bottle of red wine...

 

[Wright 1]

Been busy lately and had some "stuff" going on. Wrapt with our picks. We wanted speed and good disposal. All have very good disposal. Clark and Paton can kick just as well on either foot and look elite. Nothing at all wrong with Coffield or Clav either mind you. 3 out of 6 All Australian u/18 backs. You can tell the ones who know nothing about who we drafted, they are the ones complaining about us drafting too many backmen. Truth is all but Clav can play mid/wing.
Admit that I knew about our first 3 draftees and couldn't be happier.
Was hoping for Stephenson, Clark, Bonar and Coffield at 7/8. (Told you all Bonar would go high right?) I understand why we took Clark and Coffield over Bonar. We can get Bonar in 2 years. His mum didn't look happy at all!
Paton I knew nothing about, but after reading up on him and watching his vids, I am very, very impressed.
Will be interesting to see who we rookie, got most bases covered now. Perhaps we take a punt on someone with a bit of potential. High risk-high reward type.

Well done Trout and team!

 

[Wright 1]

Any highly touted ruckman available in the draft if Pierce is taken?

Highly doubt Pierce is taken before our pick. We are only taking him because he has a contract

 

[aussierulesrules]

With all this talk of versatility of The Coff being able to play mid ,does anyone have his 2km trial numbers?

Apparently endurance is not his strong suit, so if he's to push into the midfield area it's probably not going to happen any time soon, except perhaps in short bursts.

We're still trying to find a spot for Blacres in there and then fingers crossed Freeman will be banging down the door, and then I imagine we'd be looking to get Hunter in there before him as well.

 

[majortinkle]

I love Mav, but I'm really rooting for Ben Long to stake a serious claim

I know what you mean and I wouldn’t mind Connellan leaving them in his wake as he’s got so much speed.

Trouble is mav will still get a game and I think we need someone with more strings to their bow at hf.

 

[Gherkin]

Uhhhhh huh...

Glad you agree, it's hard to see scotty loland adding to his 14 odis it's a shame he won't get that average down from 55

 

[aussierulesrules]

I know what you mean and I wouldn’t mind Connellan leaving them in his wake as he’s got so much speed.

Trouble is mav will still get a game and I think we need someone with more strings to their bow at hf.

Mav looked to have plenty of strings to his bow in 2016- when he came 6th in the B&F- from where I was sitting.

Applied pressure/crunching tackles, was one of the quickest in the team, was flying for marks inside 50 (and if he didn't take them he could hit the ground and win the crumb himself), kicked goals, was bloody hard to tackle, won enough of the ball, etc.

Really looking forward to seeing how he goes next year, being 8kg lighter, hopefully over the ankle and fitter than ever and keen to bounce back from his poor 2017 and lift in the absence of Roo and Joey.

 

[VDS66]

Long time ago I was taught that 1 is the most dangerous number in business and marketing.
.if you rely on 1 income source and it fails, you're ****ed.

If you rely on 1 source for customers and leads and it fails... you guessed it.

Same goes for list management.

I get the idea to pick for needs, but you also have to have a diversity of options.

Sure we don't need a full back now, but we are one serious injury away... Goddard is far from certain, and Austin is unproven.

So yes, we need the Clav.

I reckon you need almost 2 of each type. List management is like a conveyor belt. You need to keep bringing them through because if the ones you have don't make it, then you're stuffed for a few years.

I also reckon the club is confident that pretty much all of mids are capable of stepping up, hence the selections.

As for Paton, he has played indifferent positions so let's not pigeon hole him at this early stage.

Chips was drafted as a forward and Bruce as a defender.

Peeps need to chill and let the boys find their feet at Sandy, then see where they are best suited.

Competition for spots will make some try harder whilst others drop off.

Let the games begin...

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

i tell you what there's going to some pressure applied to players next year. here's the out of contract ones that probably should be worried:
Gilbert (32 yr old)
Brown (29 yr old)
Weller
Minchington
Wright
Freeman
Lonie
Goddard
Phillips

even David Armitage (1 more year to run after next season, could retire early)

if we make finals i could see us attracting 2 trades. 1 elite the other very good, to go with 3 draftees and another spot for an upgrade. so we probably will need the 6 spots free.

that doesnt leave much room for contract renewals

Apart from McCartin & Longer that are ‘no brainer’ contract extensions, the uncontracted list really does scream ‘hold our fire’ on extensions.

Long way to go, but at this stage I have them in 3 groups.

Freeman and Goddard both have the talent and the tools. Presuming they are playing regularly (don’t care what level) they should be first off the rank for extensions. Low risk to keep on the list, but both potentially very high reward. Hold here and hope for luck

I also think at least 2 of Gilbo, Weller and Brown stay. I have no desire to end up like Melbourne with a young list and no leadership. All 3 are good clubman who provide plenty off the field (as well as on). How much they play is another question open for debate. But with no Roo, Joey and Seany D, at least 2 of these 3 stay to guide the group (maybe even all 3). Mav safest, Brown shakiest after our draft / trade period.

The ‘in big trouble list’ would be Lonie, Phillips, Minchi and Wright in that order.

Personally I can’t see more than 4 delistings / retirements (1 trade in and 3 draftees). There is no need to trade for depth anymore, and at this stage a rookie upgrade looks unlikely (unless we strike Sinclair level gold in a few weeks).

So for me we are looking at losing 1 of the middle group and three of the bottom group. But plenty of water to go under the bridge yet

*Long and McKenzie very lucky to not be in this conversation!

 

[majortinkle]

Mav looked to have plenty of strings to his bow in 2016- when he came 6th in the B&F- from where I was sitting.

Applied pressure/crunching tackles, was one of the quickest in the team, was flying for marks inside 50 (and if he didn't take them he could hit the ground and win the crumb himself), kicked goals, was bloody hard to tackle, won enough of the ball, etc.

Really looking forward to seeing how he goes next year, being 8kg lighter, hopefully over the ankle and fitter than ever and keen to bounce back from his poor 2017 and lift in the absence of Roo and Joey.

Yep at his best he’s a good pressure forward, but that’s all he is. I don’t want us with a forward line packed with guys who can only apply pressure.

If someone goes passed him in that role then that’s great for us as long as we don’t end up with two pressure roles. I think because of his leadership etc that’s what would happen.

 

[Barrels]

What I’d like to see:

FB: Geary - Goddard - Roberton
HB: White - Carlisle - Webster
RK: Longer - Steele - Ross
CR: Acres - Steven - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Gresham
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Gilbert Newnes Clark

What I think we’ll see:

FB: Geary - Brown - Webster
HB: Roberton - Carlisle - Gilbert
RK: Longer - Armitage - Steven
CR: Newnes - Ross - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Weller
FF: Gresham - Bruce - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Acres Lonie Savage

Therefore, San-dy:

FB: Rice - Goddard - Clavarino
HB: White - Austin - McKenzie
RK: Hickey - Freeman - Minchington
CR: Phillips - Stevens - Clark
HF: Long - Battle - Lamb*
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Wright
IC: Coffield Paton Joyce Pierce*

 

[aussierulesrules]

Interesting that that AFL.com article someone posted a bit back in this thread or another said we drafted Paton to play on the wing, or words to that effect.

I definitely believe that as much as good ball movement doesn't rely solely or at all on footspeed, it sure can help, and IIRC Hawthorn had the quick B Hill and I Smith on their wings, so I can definitely see why went for two who have both speed and excellent kicking.

I reckon we had much more of a need for that than we did for the "pure mids" that some wanted us to get two or more of. The last thing we needed for instance was a couple more Dunstan types, IMO. Hence passing on the slow Constable, who also has poor endurance.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Yep at his best he’s a good pressure forward, but that’s all he is. I don’t want us with a forward line packed with guys who can only apply pressure.

If someone goes passed him in that role then that’s great for us as long as we don’t end up with two pressure roles. I think because of his leadership etc that’s what would happen.

I strongly disagree that he's "just a pressure forward" though (they might only touch it 10 times a game, even this year Mav still averaged 16, and kick less than a goal a game), and I would really like to see him go through the middle more, or even play that "spitter" role coming off the back of the square at centre bounces, like he did in the last half of our last game.

His speed and agility off the back of the square could be very useful and I was glad to see us try him there with the season over.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

What I’d like to see:

FB: Geary - Goddard - Roberton
HB: White - Carlisle - Webster
RK: Longer - Steele - Ross
CR: Acres - Steven - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Gresham
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Gilbert Newnes Clark

What I think we’ll see:

FB: Geary - Brown - Webster
HB: Roberton - Carlisle - Gilbert
RK: Longer - Armitage - Steven
CR: Newnes - Ross - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Weller
FF: Gresham - Bruce - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Acres Lonie Savage

Therefore, San-dy:

FB: Rice - Goddard - Clavarino
HB: White - Austin - McKenzie
RK: Hickey - Freeman - Minchington
CR: Phillips - Stevens - Clark
HF: Long - Battle - Lamb*
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Wright
IC: Coffield Paton Joyce Pierce*

Indulge me one positional swap, and the Sandy backline round 1 would be:

Rice - Goddard - Clavarino
White - Austin - Coffield

F*** we have come a long way in 3 years. On paper the potential there is off the charts!!

 

[Rors]

can't Lamb just come out and say something like "i only wanna go to the Saints"

seems everyone does it these days

Maybe we don’t really want him though....

 

[Saintanne]

Getting a gig in the St Kilda midfield is more difficult than a Victorian getting selected in the Aussie test team

Surely you jest. Acres and Gresh did get to play in the midfield in the last five minutes of the last game of the season! Oh hello, Richo!

 

[StCicatriz]

Speaking of a dip, wonder how many sly handies have been taking place in that pool in the stand...

my god... what has been read cant be un-read

the innocence of pools at the cricket has now been forever tainted

 

[majortinkle]

I strongly disagree that he's "just a pressure forward" though (they might only touch it 10 times a game, even this year Mav still averaged 16, and kick less than a goal a game), and I would really like to see him go through the middle more, or even play that "spitter" role coming off the back of the square at centre bounces, like he did in the last half of our last game.

His speed and agility off the back of the square could be very useful and I was glad to see us try him there with the season over.

If we have him holding his own in the mids rotation that would be great as he theoretically has more separation potential than most of our guys.

Given he’s one of our older bodies you’ve got to think that the coaches don’t think he has it in his locker though as they haven’t really ever thrown him in there.

 

[gringo2011]

DE is one of those horribly horribly flawed stats. But as a guide, 60% is well below ANY of the topline AFL mids. 70+ is morewhat you are looking for (with a few statistical outliers)

Looking solely at this stat, for 2017:
McCrae, Oliver, Ward, Pendleburyand Selwood look like elite users
Dusty, Danger, Adams, Bont and particularly Cotchin look like butchers
Make of that what you will.

2017 average DE% for topline mids (Im sure I have missed a few but you get the idea).
Macrae 77.1
Oliver 77
Ward 76
Libba 75.6
Pendlebury 74.7
Selwood 74.5
Kelly 74.2
Fyfe 73.1
Murphy 72.8
Mundy 72.8
Mitchell 72.6
Ross 72.6
Sidebottom 72.2
M.Crouch 72.1
Griffen 71.9
Shiel 71.8
D.Beams 71.5
Shuey 71.5
Hannebury 71.3
Steven 71.1
Merrett 70.7
Heppell 70.5
Ablett 70
Gibbs 69.8
Sloane 69.4
B.Crouch 69.3
Rockliff 69.2
Cripps 68.7
Treloar 68.6
Bont 67.8
Kennedy 67.4
Danger 65.9
Martin 64.8
Cotchin 62.7

Clayton Oliver is elite because he'd handball 9 times out of 10.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we have him holding his own in the mids rotation that would be great as he theoretically has more separation potential than most of our guys.

Given he’s one of our older bodies you’ve got to think that the coaches don’t think he has it in his locker though as they haven’t really ever thrown him in there.

Don't forget that tagging in the middle is where he played almost exclusively for a year and half or whatever before he was moved forward and went better there, but in that game v Hawthorn in Tassie this year he spent a quarter or so in the middle, and had 10 disposals (and maybe one of his two goals?) for the quarter, and looked really good to me.

I also think it was stavro#4 who said the other day that the club had planned on him playing midfield more this year, before he copped his injury/injuries. The fact that he's trimmed down so much may be a sign that we want him to play further up the ground in 2018, which I would like to see. Not too many in our team have his mix of speed/explosiveness/agility/aggression. In fact probably no-one does, so it gives him a point of difference.

 

[VDS66]

If we have him holding his own in the mids rotation that would be great as he theoretically has more separation potential than most of our guys.

Given he’s one of our older bodies you’ve got to think that the coaches don’t think he has it in his locker though as they haven’t really ever thrown him in there.

Not necessarily.

Sometimes you have to play them out of position to plug a gap.

Like Joey playing back for the last few years.

If we can find someone else to play forward it rotate then Mav might get some extra time through the middle.

 

[gringo2011]

If we have him holding his own in the mids rotation that would be great as he theoretically has more separation potential than most of our guys.

Given he’s one of our older bodies you’ve got to think that the coaches don’t think he has it in his locker though as they haven’t really ever thrown him in there.

He played as a running half back at GCS towards the end. He's a funny one, he's strong and has top speed but slow off the mark. If he did play mid it would be as an insider which he's not great at. I think his role could include mid rotations as a rest for others but his best position for us is as a pressure forward who doubles back to link up.

 

[cooperg]

No Armo, or Bruce in the team you want to see no idea...2 great players!

Even Browny will be in..

What I’d like to see:

FB: Geary - Goddard - Roberton
HB: White - Carlisle - Webster
RK: Longer - Steele - Ross
CR: Acres - Steven - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Gresham
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Gilbert Newnes Clark

What I think we’ll see:

FB: Geary - Brown - Webster
HB: Roberton - Carlisle - Gilbert
RK: Longer - Armitage - Steven
CR: Newnes - Ross - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Weller
FF: Gresham - Bruce - Membrey
IC: Dunstan Acres Lonie Savage

Therefore, San-dy:

FB: Rice - Goddard - Clavarino
HB: White - Austin - McKenzie
RK: Hickey - Freeman - Minchington
CR: Phillips - Stevens - Clark
HF: Long - Battle - Lamb*
FF: Connellan - Marshall - Wright
IC: Coffield Paton Joyce Pierce*

 

[DGontheQT]

Trout should be judged more by how Clavarino and Paton's careers go , and not by the first two selections which in golf terms , were "gimmes". Constable , Murphy , Worpel , Hayes , and Stoddart were available at Clavarino's selection , with Constable even rated at pick 5 in one phantom. I am not complaining about the selection of Clavarino and Paton , as we have to give them a chance and in Clavarino's case , we were going for a need. People point to Richmond and say that is the new standard , but football isn't rocket science. It has always been about getting the ball quickly and cleanly forward , and applying heaps of pressure when you don't have it. You don't need a heap of smaller types like Richmond to do this. One thing you do need though , is to find some gems amongst your latter Draft picks , which Richmond have managed to do recently. What Trout and his team do , is so important to the future of our club , and due to such , we must always review and compare him to his peers. If he is mid-table , it's every chance that we will be too.