2017 Trade & FA Targets - The Last Supper #Ameetos

[Saint Shags]

I decide to take a break from dropping into the thread for a few hours and come back to gutter level humour!
Damn I thought something had happened. It turned out the only thing happening was Bonar jokes!

 

[Crusty Undies]

Have you considered the username PaddysaFatty?

oh nonono don't make fun of his body fat he's diabetic you know so that's off limits!

 

[Diehard Saint]

Gary Buckenara gives us a behind-the-scenes look at what really happens during trade period
Gary Buckenara, Herald Sun
October 8, 2017 7:25pm
Subscriber only
THE trade period officially begins at 9am on Monday when officials from each of the 18 clubs meet at Etihad Stadium.

Former Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara lifts the lid on exactly what happens on Day 1 and takes you behind-the-scenes of how clubs negotiate trades.

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1. What happens on Day 1 when all clubs meet at Etihad Stadium?

Monday morning might be the official start of the trade period but clubs will have already been in discussions about potential deals in the weeks prior.

Every club is given a superbox room and there is a fixture set out that details what time each club will be meeting and in which room. Adelaide might be in Room 1, Collingwood in Room 6 and so on. The meetings go for about 10 minutes before a bell rings to signal the end of the meeting and for clubs to move to their next room as per their fixture.

It’s like speed dating for AFL trades.

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson in conversation with Chris Pelchin and Gary Buckenara.
The first day is really about sharing information about your players, your list and potential deals, including which players are untouchable, which players you’d consider a deal for, inquiring about a player you’re interested in at another club and any deals you might be involved in.

You might also flag the need for another club to be involved in a deal to help you secure the player you want, for example Melbourne might need the help of a third club to facilitate the trade for Jake Lever from Adelaide or a club might need one of your picks to help them get the player they want and you need to get that deal done first.

Clubs then go back to their headquarters and meet with the coach, match committee and recruiting staff and consider whether there is the possibility of facilitating a trade and what the club is willing to give up – are we trading away our first-round pick? Questions like that are all discussed and a strategy is made.

Hawthorn recruiter Graeme Wright. Picture: Michael Klein

Carlton list manager Stephen Silvagni. Picture: Michael Klein
2. Clubs don’t meet again in one place until the final day of the period, so how do clubs do deals?

Once you’ve gathered all the information about who’s available and who you’re interested in doing a deal for whether it’s to come into your club or to depart your club, the phone calls start.

List managers will set up meetings with clubs they’ve got potential deals going with so Hawthorn might set up a meeting with Essendon and head to a cafe or meet at either club’s headquarters - the Bombers go to Waverley or the Hawks to Tullamarine.

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Often player managers will be called either during this meeting or directly after – list managers will be in regular contact with or set up meetings with them. For example, a club might schedule a meeting with Jake Lever’s manager to try and convince Lever to come to their club rather than Melbourne because it believes it can offer the Crows a better deal and actually get the deal done.

These meetings, whether they’re in person or over the phone take place every day because there is always something to discuss whether it’s with a club or a player manager. There is rarely a dull moment. The goal is obviously to get a deal done as soon as possible so you can move onto your next target or next deal.

Melbourne and Adelaide are set to battle over Jake Lever. Picture: Sarah Reed

Melbourne could use Jack Watts to gain the picks for Jake Lever.
3. Who is actually talking about the potential trade and how much are managers and players involved?

Generally, the list manager and a recruiter will attend meetings with rival clubs – the recruiter is there for their intel on the strength of the draft and the type of player a club might be able to secure if pick 10, 25 or 67 etc is on the table. So how strong is that pick in this draft?

Player managers aren’t usually involved in the actual negotiations but will be updated on the state of play and often, act as a peacemaker if clubs reach an impasse.

A club might call the manager of the player they’re trying to get and say we’re struggling to get the deal done and the manager will push them and say if you really want him then give a little bit more because he really wants to play for you. They’ll be the persuader.

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Players aren’t involved at all, it’s all about the manager acting on behalf of the player.

Normally players are on holidays overseas and the manager will assume all responsibility, including being given power of lawyer. That means the manager can sign off on the trade on a player’s behalf. The manager will seek final tick off from their player and say ‘OK the deal has been done with Melbourne, this is the deal, the clubs have agreed, are you happy for me to sign off on that on your behalf?’

Power of lawyer is normally handed over at exit meetings if a player either a) asks for a trade or b) a club says if your name comes up during the trade period we might do a deal.

The Bulldogs are chasing a top 10 draft pick for Jake Stringer. Picture: Michael Klein
4. How do clubs convince players to leave their current club and join them instead?

It’s all about selling your club - selling the coaching, the opportunity that will be there compared to the club they’re currently at, the possibility for success and the big clubs such as Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn and Geelong will sell the fact they are a big club with lots of members and the players will have the chance to play in front of big crowds. The potential for life after footy, be it financial or work opportunities, will also be discussed.

The senior coach and coaching staff play a huge role. They will go over to a player’s house and basically sell themselves because a player is more likely to buy into a club because of the coach - he wants to play under that coach.

I think back to Shaun Burgoyne deciding to choose Hawthorn over Essendon or staying at Port Adelaide – it really came down to his relationship with Clarko (coach Alastair Clarkson) and (fitness boss) Andrew Russell and a few others at the Hawks who Burgoyne had worked with at the Power.

That process takes a while; it’s not just one meeting. It’s phone call after phone call and a couple of meetings before that final one where you get them across the line. You need to get to know the player and build the trust so he believes in you. The player manager will generally advise the list manager or the decision and then the news filters to the coach down.

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson hugs Shaun Burgoyne after a win.
5. How many conversations actually take place and how many potential scenarios are thrown up? What happens when a player’s name is thrown up from your club who hasn’t asked to be traded?

Countless scenarios are thrown up because clubs don’t want to take no for an answer. A club might desperately want a player and they will keep trying.

There are also discussions on what you’ve got to deal with and so Richmond might say we need Adelaide’s first pick to get deal A done, can we get that from the Crows? A lot of that gets thrown around. There are a lot of negotiations and a lot of phone calls made.

Deals can take a while to happen because players are away so player managers will need to try and get in contact with them or clubs need to go away and consider the different scenarios that were spoken about.

A club might say no, you need to do better so then that club will go away and consider whether it can come up with a better deal or not and speak to the player manager who will then speak to the player. There are so many phone calls and conversations that happen and clubs need time to think because every club wants to get the very best deal it can. That’s why deals often get stalled.

Exit meetings are critical in establishing your trade strategy and who you’re willing to consider a deal for and who you’re not. Clubs need to let players know where they stand – we’re going in open eyes and ears and are prepared to listen and your name might come up. There might be something in it or there might not be but clubs need to be prepared and need to have had those conversations.

Normally, that conversation happens with about 15-20 players on your list.

Geelong list manager Stephen Wells. Picture: Nigel Hallett

Former Essendon coach Kevin Sheedy. Picture: Michael Klein
6. Who are the best clubs to deal with and why?

I’ve always found Stephen Wells at Geelong and Kinnear Beatson at Sydney the two best to deal with. They knew the value of the marketplace, the value of the trade and if they wanted a deal done then they got it done.

It was no nonsense. They rarely changed their mind on any deal – if they said they would offer pick No.7 then that’s what they offered. Whatever they put on the table was their best deal.

7. Who are the worst clubs to deal with and why?

Essendon. You could never really get a straight answer out of the Bombers, particularly when Kevin Sheedy was coach.

He was a great coach but he treated the trade period like a game – he’d talk in riddles and change his mind. A lot of clubs actually didn’t want to do deals with Essendon or get involved in any deals that they were involved in because they’d fall over at the last minute after Sheedy changed his mind or they changed their mind as a club.

That used to occur a fair bit a while back. I don’t think clubs appreciated that and while they’re better now, there was definitely a period where clubs avoided them and it affected the Bombers on the field because they couldn’t get involved in the trade period.

Even when they were serious about a deal no club took them seriously. It was like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

 

[Joffaboy]

This thread has gone to shit. Mods on hols?

 

[Lightsxo]

7. Who are the worst clubs to deal with and why?

Essendon.

Concise and to the point

Biggest campaigners in the AFL

 

[St Neil]

Worth pointing out Bonar tested poorly in the 2km and Yo-Yo tests. Needs to polish up his skills too.

He’s explosive as all get out, but he’s not the finished article.

Would you take the punt on Bonar at pick 7 or 8?

I know stuff all about judging young talent but having had a look it in recent days the one I look the look of is Constable. Appears to do all things really well and has great family footy background. Seems to be the quiet prospect in the draft.

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

Have you considered the username PaddysaFatty?

how dare you! (speak about your father like that)

 

[StCicatriz]

View attachment 425974

Happy with our new recruits.

 

[kernelT]

Campaign bonar banned within an hour, harsh... seemed like a solid contributor.

 

[Barrels]

Would you take the punt on Bonar at pick 7 or 8?

I know stuff all about judging young talent but having had a look it in recent days the one I look the look of is Constable. Appears to do all things really well and has great family footy background. Seems to be the quiet prospect in the draft.

I would.

Coffield, Constable and Cerra are the others I’d be looking at at those picks. Stephenson if he’s there.

 

[bird_man]

Campaign bonar banned within an hour, harsh... seemed like a solid contributor.

Haha, what did he do?

 

[bird_man]

I'm really hoping we keep 7 and 8 but I'd love to pick up someone. An Ameet special would be great but there doesn't seem like there's anyone available.

 

[Diehard Saint]

This thread has gone to shit. Mods on hols?

Gone to bed early...big day tomorrow

 

[Wright 1]

FMD, had a busy day and come back to this shit. I am the conductor of the Bonar bandwagon, all you other campaigners can get the feck off at the next stop.

 

[gringo2011]

I think trying to attract stars to our club is always going to be difficult given our history. Sure we can put stacks of money to them but one flag in 120 years, Seaford and a tendency to implode on ourselves frequently will always go against us.

So sensibly we go to the draft, sure Trout will get some wrong and he may have with Goddard and McCartin but we don't know yet. I don't think his strike rate is any better or worse than others.

What I do get frustrated with is the rate of development. Players in 2 and 3 Rs years at other clubs always seem more impactful.

I think we just have to wait. I do expect us to go backwards ladder wise next year but that does not mean we are not a better team. 2020 onwards will be this groups time.

Seriously the Tigers were trying to poach talent for 10 years and people didn't believe they were going anywhere so turned them down. They were forced to recruit and build from the draft up until they had most of the pieces in place and then they looked more attractive. We will get to a point where we will become a destination club. Last year we looked ahead of the curve so looked like we might fool some into coming early.

 

[St Neil]

I would.

Coffield, Constable and Cerra are the others I’d be looking at at those picks. Stephenson if he’s there.

In order of preference, how would you rank the 3 ‘C’ lads?

 

[gringo2011]

Petracca has shown potential but nothing deserving of the hype he gets. There is nothing so far to suggest that picking him over McCartin would be the difference between us contending or not.

On the midfielder thing, we cannot bank on being able to land a star mid from elsewhere - if this is our sole strategy for success then we are dumb as shit banking on something we have no control over. The majority of elite mids don't move clubs or haven't moved clubs recently.

The main motivator for leaving seems to be money and always involves the destination club having to pay overs which has some risks. If rumours are to be believed there are murmurs of discontent at Melbourne caused by Lever's contract / Watts being pushed out. Same thing could happen to us and we have what seems a pretty good equilibrium right now.

If an Elite mid doesn't want to leave (and odds are this will be the case) then we need to draft our own.

We've had a crack at Fyfe and Kelly and they didn't want to leave so we go to the draft as it's our only other option.

I have never rated Petracca particularly highly but my melbourne mates do. I have watched Melbourne play games when the Saints aren't involved even and can't see him do much but a couple of eye catching things a game but he's the third highest rated player by position as a small forward according to the Shick AFL player rankings. Only Greene and Betts are above him so he must do lots of the invisible stuff. Those rankings are like star signs I'm pretty sure but the numbers are assigned on something.

 

[sonnywalters]

Funny how the guys who just get the done deal with no nonsense are actually the smartest and best at it - Geelong and Sydney.

Sounds like most club list mgrs are egotistical, arrogant and dumb and waste a lot of time trying to 'haggle' like an aussie bogan trying to buy a sarong in bali.

 

[Sab22]

If we don't bring in any players. We can trade 7 or 8 for 16+18 from Richmond.

So we can get Bonar + O'Brien + Tall Defender.

 

[StCicatriz]

who's this:

 

[kernelT]

Haha, what did he do?

Dunno, maybe just the name.

 

[SaintLex]

who's this:

Paige doesn't even know. Could be his son's mate's cousin

 

[hayes]

Did TMZ take that photo??

 

[Saint Shags]

who's this:

Josh Schache at a guess.

 

[Saint Watto]

Agree, we need to forget about the road to 2018 and concentrate on what's best for the long term.

Agree with you and Ghost on this....the road to 2018 was a target....a goal.......something to aim for with absolutely no guarantee's.

Things can go wrong in four months let alone 4 years.

Some on here treat it as something that was cast in concrete and are jumping up and down as to why it's not going to happen.

As I have said before....I'm very confident in the direction we're going.