List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
bird_man said:
Sorry if I've made it confusing for you.

I think it's ok to question some decisions without suggesting people are no good at their job or our list is no good.

It's definitely not all doom and gloom for me but I think we have made some mistakes over this last period of time.

We now have a good core of 21-25 year olds which I think is a credit to the club but I don't like the fact that we now trail behind the rest of the comp in terms of under 21 year olds.

I don't like the fact that we have only used one top 40 pick on a midfielder since 2015. Look at all the best sides at the moment and they are filled with mids taken in that first bracket of the draft.

I've made it pretty clear I wasn't happy with the Allison decision as there were obvious choices that could have helped rectify that issue but we decided against it.

Using that pick on Poulter and then a late pick on someone like Callow was a much better option imo.

I don't think the drafting as a whole had been poor but the fact that we have traded away picks means we have to nail the ones we are left with.

As Stavro has stated the club has already spoken about hitting the draft this year which I think is the right move and can go a long way into fixing these issue's.

We are only going to get so much improvement from this 21-25 group before we need a new wave coming through.

We also need to get fair dinkum about developing players. Drafting Clark at 7 as a mid and not playing him as a mid will kill us long term.

He was excellent round one and hasn't been given the opportunity to play as a full time mid since. Compare that to the other top 10 mids taken from that draft and they have all had midfield time pumped into them from a young age.

Outside of that I think we've made some very good drafting decisions since Libba essentially took the reigns. Byrnes as a late selection looks terrific. Bytel, while I'm still not 100% sold on looks like he has the tools, Clark, Coffield and King all good picks if we can develop them.

Hope that clears it up a bit.
Click to expand...


The concern I have is that they don't let Libba have many picks to test himself and he looks like he's a bit hit and miss when he does get them (which could be where the picks are taken). King was an overrule if the reports are true.

King, Bytel, Parker, Hind and Young in 2018. 2 left listed both still in development.

Byrne and Connoly in 2019 but pretty much traded right out of this draft with our first pick at 52 due to the Hill trade and giving up picks for Jones and Howard etc. One looks great one hasn't been tried.

2020 gave up our first rounder and future second for Higgins got back Richmond's pick 26 which we used on Allison, Highmore with our only other pick at 46 still due to paying off past trades for Hill.

In reality they only give him trash to pick with, he's had one pick before pick 41 and that was overruled unless he picked at the 2017 draft where we got Clark, Coffield, Clavarino and Paton but Trout fans swear he was in charge of that one still.
 
BrutThough said:
Crouch is on about 600k for 4 years with a 5th year trigger and that got Adelaide band 3.

Billings isn't getting us band 1 compo.
Click to expand...
See my post where I've now clarified that its only guaranteed money that counts when the AFL calculates compo.

Crouch is older than Billings, on less than you say, part of it is incentive based and the trigger year doesn't count.
 
gringo2011 said:
The concern I have is that they don't let Libba have many picks to test himself and he looks like he's a bit hit and miss when he does get them (which could be where the picks are taken). King was an overrule if the reports are true.

King, Bytel, Parker, Hind and Young in 2018. 2 left listed both still in development.

Byrne and Connoly in 2019 but pretty much traded right out of this draft with our first pick at 52 due to the Hill trade and giving up picks for Jones and Howard etc. One looks great one hasn't been tried.

2020 gave up our first rounder and future second for Higgins got back Richmond's pick 26 which we used on Allison, Highmore with our only other pick at 46 still due to paying off past trades for Hill.

In reality they only give him trash to pick with, he's had one pick before pick 41 and that was overruled unless he picked at the 2017 draft where we got Clark, Coffield, Clavarino and Paton but Trout fans swear he was in charge of that one still.
Click to expand...
Can't blame Libba for the Hind pick. Turns out it was a very good selection, he was just played out of position. So really only Young and Parker misses there, which I think is excusable for late selections. He also got Wilkie in the same year.

The suggestion at the time is that he had the reigns in that 2017 draft even though Trout was still there?

You are right though, he hasn't had much of a chance since 2017.
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

BrutThough said:
Crouch is on about 600k for 4 years with a 5th year trigger and that got Adelaide band 3.

Billings isn't getting us band 1 compo.
Click to expand...
We'd have to be kissed on the dick for someone to come and offer that kind of money to Billings.

Stranger things have happened though. Williams for 900k was pretty ridiculous.

And then Billings has got to want to go to that club. Heading off to a rebuilding club after only just playing in his first final is a big ask. Maybe he'd prefer to take less and go to a genuine flag contender?

Who knows, but I'm not holding my breath for band one, seems more unlikely than likely anyway.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Sorry Gringo, Battle will never be a star.

Medium sized player with no outstanding qualities other than a tank. If he was as good as people think he is, we would see examples of that quality every game irrespective of where he plays.

Looked good for a few minutes on Saturday when he was playing on an undersized slow hbf in Zeibell. Soon as they shifted a taller defender onto him that was it.

Will never be a kpf, 3rd tall forward at best, and a long way behind Membrey.

And thats the reason why Allison looked attractive to the recruiters.
Click to expand...


Maybe maybe not. Battle is a tall who has had no consistency of development. He looked good last year as a KPB, was sent to a wing where it did him or the Saints no favour. Before last year he'd played 26 games, I'd say it's too early to tell on him especially the way we have played him. Tim Membrey got to play as a third tall behind Rooey and Bruce and he could just do his own thing with not much pressure. If we wanted to know how good he might be we would find him a role and keep playing him there until we had given him time to develop into that role.

To me if you were trying to show how not to develop a player it would be modelled on how we have developed Battle.
 
bird_man said:
We'd have to be kissed on the dick for someone to come and offer that kind of money to Billings.

Stranger things have happened though. Williams for 900k was pretty ridiculous.

And then Billings has got to want to go to that club. Heading off to a rebuilding club after only just playing in his first final is a big ask. Maybe he'd prefer to take less and go to a genuine flag contender?

Who knows, but I'm not holding my breath for band one, seems more unlikely than likely anyway.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure how it’s a stretch. He is a better player then Williams. Neither are stars.

earning good coin already which sets an expectation and young enough to demand good money before doing a Higgins and chasing success.

plus if the offers are 550-600. Re-sign the guy.

there is a big difference between letting the market dictate his price and forcing him out ala crouch.
 
stavro#4 said:
I’m dirty on the club. As a member I believed them when they said we would push for top 4 this year. Personal opinion. 2023 is when we will push the 4. Might not even play finals next year. We will be a horrifically young list.

Side note about our fortunes etc but I almost feel like the AFL gods are trying to fix our situation for us. By this I mean the following.

no one would have predicted us to finish so poorly and king to do his ACL in the same year. He was the undisputed number 1 pick prior to that knee.

the injuries this year are a huge reason we are where we are. Every chance we could get kissed on the dick again and have access to some really high end kids.
Click to expand...
We will have access to one quality first round pick. Hopefully the club nails it. I also hope the club keeps their second round pick for once for 2022.
 
bird_man said:
We'd have to be kissed on the dick for someone to come and offer that kind of money to Billings.

Stranger things have happened though. Williams for 900k was pretty ridiculous.

And then Billings has got to want to go to that club. Heading off to a rebuilding club after only just playing in his first final is a big ask. Maybe he'd prefer to take less and go to a genuine flag contender?

Who knows, but I'm not holding my breath for band one, seems more unlikely than likely anyway.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The chances of it happening are very very small.

No one should be planning for it to occur.
 
gringo2011 said:
The concern I have is that they don't let Libba have many picks to test himself and he looks like he's a bit hit and miss when he does get them (which could be where the picks are taken). King was an overrule if the reports are true.

King, Bytel, Parker, Hind and Young in 2018. 2 left listed both still in development.

Byrne and Connoly in 2019 but pretty much traded right out of this draft with our first pick at 52 due to the Hill trade and giving up picks for Jones and Howard etc. One looks great one hasn't been tried.

2020 gave up our first rounder and future second for Higgins got back Richmond's pick 26 which we used on Allison, Highmore with our only other pick at 46 still due to paying off past trades for Hill.

In reality they only give him trash to pick with, he's had one pick before pick 41 and that was overruled unless he picked at the 2017 draft where we got Clark, Coffield, Clavarino and Paton but Trout fans swear he was in charge of that one still.
Click to expand...
He has actually done very well with what he has got. Robbie Young is the only dud. Leo Connolly is still developing and going well, plus Both Parker and Hind should still be on the list..both delisted and traded when shouldn't.
 
Last edited:
stavro#4 said:
I’m not sure how it’s a stretch. He is a better player then Williams. Neither are stars.

earning good coin already which sets an expectation and young enough to demand good money before doing a Higgins and chasing success.

plus if the offers are 550-600. Re-sign the guy.

there is a big difference between letting the market dictate his price and forcing him out ala crouch.
Click to expand...

I think it requires a desperate club like Carlton, us or North who will pay anything for a trade to get done to get those pay packets. Hopefully there is one available.
 
gringo2011 said:
I think it requires a desperate club like Carlton, us or North who will pay anything for a trade to get done to get those pay packets. Hopefully there is one available.
Click to expand...
Essendon North Hawthorn could all offer him a good enough deal. You could also make a case for it.

as I said. From what I heard, his agent has told the club they have a fair few clubs keen and we were apart on initial numbers by some distance.
 
bird_man said:
We'd have to be kissed on the dick for someone to come and offer that kind of money to Billings.

Stranger things have happened though. Williams for 900k was pretty ridiculous.

And then Billings has got to want to go to that club. Heading
Click to expand...
Don't worry about the Williams contract - its an almost irrelevant outlier.

There's only one question to ask - is it likely that some one would offer Billings a contract that guarantees him in excess of $2M?

If you think that is possible then Band 1 would be the compo.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Don't worry about the Williams contract - its an almost irrelevant outlier.

There's only one question to ask - is it likely that some one would offer Billings a contract that guarantees him in excess of $2M?

If you think that is possible then Band 1 would be the compo.
Click to expand...
Over what period of time?

2 million over 4 years certainly won't get him band one.

Do you mean over 3 years?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Anyone who thinks battle will get us a top 20 pick or anything close to that are kidding themselves. What actually even is josh battle? A slow moving, straight line running, zero agility, undersized key position player that can’t find the ball. I had high hopes for him even up until this year but I think I’ve seen enough. If we got offered anything under 30 for him I would take it and run as fast as I could. I still can’t believe after he had a break out year at centre half back, we haven’t once tried him back there. This playing on a wing stuff is stupidity and has quiet possibly ruined his career. Personally I see his value around pick 30-40
 
Yabadoo22 said:
Anyone who thinks battle will get us a top 20 pick or anything close to that are kidding themselves. What actually even is josh battle? A slow moving, straight line running, zero agility, undersized key position player that can’t find the ball. I had high hopes for him even up until this year but I think I’ve seen enough. If we got offered anything under 30 for him I would take it and run as fast as I could. I still can’t believe after he had a break out year at centre half back, we haven’t once tried him back there. This playing on a wing stuff is stupidity and has quiet possibly ruined his career. Personally I see his value around pick 30-40
Click to expand...


Can we just give him an extended run as a forward? Like... just try it?
 
Yabadoo22 said:
Anyone who thinks battle will get us a top 20 pick or anything close to that are kidding themselves. What actually even is josh battle? A slow moving, straight line running, zero agility, undersized key position player that can’t find the ball. I had high hopes for him even up until this year but I think I’ve seen enough. If we got offered anything under 30 for him I would take it and run as fast as I could. I still can’t believe after he had a break out year at centre half back, we haven’t once tried him back there. This playing on a wing stuff is stupidity and has quiet possibly ruined his career. Personally I see his value around pick 30-40
Click to expand...
Is Josh Battle AFL standard? In what position is he AFL standard? As a forward? Probably not. He really needed to step up last weekend in the forward line with Wood going down and King down on form... couldn't get anywhere near it. Not even making enough contests.
 
bird_man said:
Over what period of time?

2 million over 4 years certainly won't get him band one.

Do you mean over 3 years?
Click to expand...
No - its the guaranteed amount of the contract irrespective of the years.

The only time the years count is when the AFL is ranking the players in order to establish where the contract sits on the best paid list.

If player A gets $2M guaranteed over 4 years and player B gets $2M over 2 years, player A is ranked higher because of the longer term of the contract even though they are getting less per year.

Jake Niall explains it all in this article

www.theage.com.au

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
Sully111 said:
What i want is elite field kicks. When i watch Dusty bullet pass and hit up a target it makes my mouth water. Buddy can be like it too. I know they're rare talents but it's what we need... a couple of guys who can cut the opposition up with precision kicking.
Click to expand...
We have Hanners. It’s just his body is cut up
 
stavro#4 said:
I’m not sure how it’s a stretch. He is a better player then Williams. Neither are stars.

earning good coin already which sets an expectation and young enough to demand good money before doing a Higgins and chasing success.

plus if the offers are 550-600. Re-sign the guy.

there is a big difference between letting the market dictate his price and forcing him out ala crouch.
Click to expand...
The key here is keeping billing sweet while allowing him to walk if he gets offered stupid money.

Things can turn ugly in a hurry if you’re offering unders or not that far away but showing no love, fewer years etc. We should be wary of Paul connors based on past experiences.
 
Am l wrong in thinking the compo picks are gauged on contract value per year rather than the total value?
So if JB was offered $750k for 2 years we'd get band 1, but $650k for 3 years gets band 2 or 3.

If so it's %100 reasonable to think about band 1 since an inflated 2 year deal would constitute a signing bonus a-la Jones and others..
 
pebblesofsand said:
No - its the guaranteed amount of the contract irrespective of the years.

The only time the years count is when the AFL is ranking the players in order to establish where the contract sits on the best paid list.

If player A gets $2M guaranteed over 4 years and player B gets $2M over 2 years, player A is ranked higher because of the longer term of the contract even though they are getting less per year.

Jake Niall explains it all in this article

www.theage.com.au

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
Click to expand...
Can't load that link but I'm sure I've read it before and I'm almost positive you are reading it wrong.

"AFL trades 2020: Free agency compensation formula, how does it work, Brad Crouch, Adelaide, St Kilda, free agents, details" https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/538e998849aa96d921d7da512ff8793e

"Some details were revealed in an excellent piece by Nine’s Jake Niall in early 2018, showing how players 25 and older were ranked based on their annual salary - with those rankings adjusted for age - and compensation being dependent on those rankings.

The length of contract would act as a tie-breaker - for example, a 25-year-old signing a four-year $2 million deal ranks higher than a 25-year-old signing a two-year $1 million deal, but not one signing a two-year $1.2 million deal."


Tom Rockliff signed 4 years between 650 and 700k over 4 years and missed band one.
 
gringo2011 said:
The concern I have is that they don't let Libba have many picks to test himself and he looks like he's a bit hit and miss when he does get them (which could be where the picks are taken). King was an overrule if the reports are true.

King, Bytel, Parker, Hind and Young in 2018. 2 left listed both still in development.

Byrne and Connoly in 2019 but pretty much traded right out of this draft with our first pick at 52 due to the Hill trade and giving up picks for Jones and Howard etc. One looks great one hasn't been tried.

2020 gave up our first rounder and future second for Higgins got back Richmond's pick 26 which we used on Allison, Highmore with our only other pick at 46 still due to paying off past trades for Hill.

In reality they only give him trash to pick with, he's had one pick before pick 41 and that was overruled unless he picked at the 2017 draft where we got Clark, Coffield, Clavarino and Paton but Trout fans swear he was in charge of that one still.
Click to expand...
I still believe Clav was a parting gift from Trout.
IIRC we traded out a future 2nd in the 2018 draft which fell in the early 20s for p35 and we gave up a 3rd to facilitate it.
Then old mate said we did it to get an extra years development into the kid, yet we took a someone who needed 3-4-5 years of development.
We could have taken Warpel, Pjelly etc.
Un fu king believable...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

S
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.3
149 150 151 152 153
Replies
4K
Views
173K
Saint Ray
S
stavro#4
List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part IV
65 66 67 68 69
Replies
2K
Views
82K
hangdog
hangdog
saint_
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2
533 534 535 536 537
Replies
13K
Views
618K
ScrappyDo
ScrappyDo
George
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part III
396 397 398 399 400
Replies
10K
Views
401K
George
George
The Punter
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II
396 397 398 399 400
Replies
10K
Views
412K
George
George
bird_man
List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I
185 186 187 188 189
Replies
5K
Views
211K
sunny3193
sunny3193
Dard Ball Get
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1
408 409 410 411 412
Replies
10K
Views
426K
akaifu
akaifu

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top