List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Red mist]

Yes ....it's what I do

So, it’s just mainly the coffee and other stuff bro x

 

[Red mist]

instead of forcing out or retiring a contracted player like Brown, we'll lose a wanted player with year ahead of them purely bevause they're not contracted. That's the AFC for ya.

I’d love to reference people’s post history and see the theatrics when dropping Brown was courted and I’d include Scorpus because he was picking it.

 

[spenze]

he's aiming straight ahead.

He was kicking to the left, using the outside of his boot

 

[Bearded Clam]

Six years on the list, seven games.

Absolute epitome of a list clogger, how does he do it?, why do we do it?

If Davis can get six years as a pick 75, how long will we give other spuds selected as first rounders?

6 games..

his 7th he didnt even take the field..
whats the base wage?.. $140,000 a year?

so nearly $140k a game!..
good money if you can get it..

what a joke of a club… just endless wasted opportunity’s and heck ups...

-what they gave up for a cooked Carey
-what they gave up for a shit gibbs
-their failure to pick Pavlich preferring mcgregor instead!.. laughable.
-their countless failed top end draft picks
-their dumb**** over the top treatment of Stengle.. AA small forward forced out the door over a bag of nose beers.. something nearly every player would do..
-their complete and utter disaster with the Tippett saga that saw them lose him for zero return and then 2 1sts and 2 2nds aswell.
-their failed pathetic game of bluff on bcrouch that saw them lose the clubs best midfielder at the time for peanuts.
- contantly clogging their list up year after year with players like himm, davis, mookay etc etc when its clear for years they are shit.

the list goes on and on..

is there a club with a worse record when it comes to flipping dumb list management decisions and strategies than the crows?..

 

[Dangerousfield]

Most definitely is not ! ....too many emotive comments, not enough objective analysis

Norf and WCE are the only other lists around our mark. immediately in front of us on the table, Essendon and Hawks are far better lists.

Remember that whatever we have done this year results wise has been done with minimal injuries, it couldn't have got any better.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Norf and WCE are the only other lists around our mark. immediately in front of us on the table, Essendon and Hawks are far better lists.

Remember that whatever we have done this year results wise has been done with minimal injuries, it couldn't have got any better.

Performance versus projections

I recall the hoards were lambasting Harwick, and laughing at his insistence RICH had a good list in 2016 .....everyone said he was simply towing the club line

Am I suggesting a replication of RICH ....NO !

But performances are not a reflection of a) the list quality ....b) the development in a rebuild is a failure

We have most of the pieces ....talls take a bit longer .....and we are short of 1-2 gilt edge stars ...that can change quickly

All these "so called" experts got it horribly wrong, in their assessment of RICH

WHAT WENT WRONG


DAMIEN Hardwick said Chris Yarran would be the cherry on top of Richmond’s list, one he believed was challenging for a flag. But Yaran is yet to play a game in yellow and black, after failing to overcome injuries, which only compounded his mental health issues.
Instead of winning a final, the Tigers have bombed out of the eight, leading many punters to believe they’d over performed in the past three seasons.

The list management has subsequently come under the spotlight. Under Hardwick, no first round draft picks have lived up to their lofty price. Reece Conca, Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlaustin and Ben Lennon (who requested a trade on Thursday) are testament to this. Do Richmond pick the wrong players? Or is the development pathway at the club sub par?

COACH PRESSURE GAUGE

UNDERSELL and over deliver. It’s the oldest trick in the book, although no one seems to have informed Damien Hardwick. The besieged coach told Fox Footy’s On The Couch he expected to play finals next season, despite finishing 13th this year. The bounce, he said, would be quick. While he still has two years to run on his contract, the equation is fairly simple: Win a final or be shown the door

 

[jackster83]

The list management has subsequently come under the spotlight. Under Hardwick, no first round draft picks have lived up to their lofty price. Reece Conca, Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlaustin and Ben Lennon (who requested a trade on Thursday) are testament to this. Do Richmond pick the wrong players? Or is the development pathway at the club sub par?

They still had Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Martin and Rance.

Absolute guns who all formed the core of that 2017 side.

 

[Gtowncrow]

I'm sure I read this somewhere but wasn't Essendon's reasoning for targeting Rankine something along the lines of increasing their indigenous quota or thereabouts? Surely they can't be serious.

So a token black fella hey?

Game over Essendon. Douchebags...

 

[Sanders]

Of the 3 ....IIR most posters were upset at losing McGovern

Don't recall much outrage at losing Charlie ....I remember most happy if we got #19, as anything earlier was a pipedream ......he is the one this board got severely wrong on his performances & potential

Brad Crouch was a bit "meh" ......again has been proven a good decision to trade .....has had a lot of games where his disposal and influence on games has been pronounced ......however if you look at the typical St Kilda horrid games this year .....Brad Crouch is one of the disappearing acts in the big games

Lever, I still subscribe to no DEF being worth $800K ....and am happy we didn't sell the farm

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The Western Bulldogs are suffering from a TPP model whereby the top 6-8 players are handsomely paid on long Contracts and then filling the last 6-8 players in the best 22 with cheap role players ......those bottom terrible 6-8 players are costing the WB Finals ......that same model has cost GWS the Finals

The players are easy to identify

WB nearly and probably should have won the flag last year. 1/2 way through the 3rd QTR of the GF and they looked home.

Are you sure they’re the model we want to avoid?

It would’ve been their 2nd flag in 5 years, let’s definitely not be like them

 

[Sanders]

I don't think they all were.

Some, sure. Maybe Keath. I don't think Betts was, or Jacobs, or Greenwood.

Keath & Greenwood were both certain errors.

We retired Betts & Jacobs, they’re in a different category. Neither had any juice left. They weren’t lost players per se

 

[Sanders]

I'm sure I read this somewhere but wasn't Essendon's reasoning for targeting Rankine something along the lines of increasing their indigenous quota or thereabouts? Surely they can't be serious.

That’s not real

 

[rabidcrow]

They’re kinda *ed….

They don’t have much coming through the ranks at all in the future

West Coast are well run. They will bounce back pretty quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Sanders]

It's probably the most replaceable position in the team - high value and can be replaced. Seems perfect.

Gives North a senior, high profile player along with this years first (no.3) so that they can sell the package to supporters

What they can’t do, is trade JHF and not get back a package they can argue is a win

 

[Sanders]

Yes ....it's what I do

Is it though?

 

[George Kramer]

Yes ....it's what I do

Normally you’d wait for others to give you those plaudits rather than pat yourself on the back

 

[AFC979810]

Performance versus projections

I recall the hoards were lambasting Harwick, and laughing at his insistence RICH had a good list in 2016 .....everyone said he was simply towing the club line

Am I suggesting a replication of RICH ....NO !

But performances are not a reflection of a) the list quality ....b) the development in a rebuild is a failure

We have most of the pieces ....talls take a bit longer .....and we are short of 1-2 gilt edge stars ...that can change quickly

All these "so called" experts got it horribly wrong, in their assessment of RICH

The key difference here is that Hardwick had an upward trajectory right from the beginning. He took over a dismal Richmond side that won 5 games in 2009. Then went 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins in his first 3 years. Then in the next 3 years he made the finals. Including two 15 win seasons.

Year 7 and your post was based in 2016 when everything went backwards and the tough decision needed to be made. He had already had 7 years in charge and had shown significant improvement.

Our issue is that 3 years under Nicks and to 95% of people there has been no upward trend. Nicks took over a 10 win team from 2019. Since then in almost 3 seasons we have 15 wins and Nicks has a record eerily similar to Mathew Primus.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WB nearly and probably should have won the flag last year. 1/2 way through the 3rd QTR of the GF and they looked home.

Are you sure they’re the model we want to avoid?

It would’ve been their 2nd flag in 5 years, let’s definitely not be like them

The WB model has changed since 2016 ....2016 was a very even side, contributors across the board .....but they still just scrambled into the 8 .....it was just a fantastic Finals series & not sustainable, as subsequent years have shown

Have a look at the 2021 team's bottom 6 and do a comparison to the 2016 side

It's not like you to use hypotheticals as an argument

 

[Dangerousfield]

I'm wondering if some of the baffling non playing selection decisions being made are actually in a way being driven by list management. That is not giving games to players who we've already decided will be delisted.

Reckon players like Newchurch and Frampton have already had their papers stamped as two of the definite delistings. Obviously Davis won't survive for a seventh season. How much more movement will there be when most of the list has 2023 contracts.

We'll only take three at most in the draft unless we decide to get creative and trade in picks for 2023 picks.

 

[1970crow]

Nothing to controversial there is there...that's it in total..

It’s just flat out wrong and a director of footy is about the last person who can afford to have incorrect philosophies. Selecting an in form player from the 2s ahead of an out of form or injured player is never a balancing act and experience levels between the 2 and those of the other 20 are totally and utterly irrelevant.

What is a balancing act at selection though is how many of certain types of players can fit in a 22. So when someone like McAdam is a late out you need to consider how the side will look if you replace him with an inside midfielder. There’s a balancing act there, but if you ask our club, we seem to think the most important factor out of the 2 is games played. And that is controversial and entirely incorrect.

 

[Mego Red]

WB nearly and probably should have won the flag last year. 1/2 way through the 3rd QTR of the GF and they looked home.

Are you sure they’re the model we want to avoid?

It would’ve been their 2nd flag in 5 years, let’s definitely not be like them

I think the Bulldogs have been underperformers the last few years. Remember, they were fifth last year entering the finals and it was a year when 11 wins got you 7th.

Both years they got to the grand final, they had a good run through the finals series.

 

[Mego Red]

Keath & Greenwood were both certain errors.

We retired Betts & Jacobs, they’re in a different category. Neither had any juice left. They weren’t lost players per se

Keath has been okay. Defensive one on ones and key defenders are still the biggest issue at WB, though.

Greenwood has been mediocre, playing a role that puts him constantly around the ball and is incredibly replaceable. I will never not believe that GCS knew EXACTLY what they were doing in luring North to take him.

Betts and Jacobs were both taken by other clubs and given extra years

 

[George Kramer]

Keath has been okay. Defensive one on ones and key defenders are still the biggest issue at WB, though.

Greenwood has been mediocre, playing a role that puts him constantly around the ball and is incredibly replaceable. I will never not believe that GCS knew EXACTLY what they were doing in luring North to take him.

Betts and Jacobs were both taken by other clubs and given extra years

You keep sprouting this, Bulldogs are short on Kpd, they only have one and that’s Keath. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t been good for them. Only a Crows sycophant would try and argue otherwise.

Just because you’re admitting to believing something doesn’t mean it’s true. Greenwood has been poor this year but was good previously

 

[Sanders]

The WB model has changed since 2016 ....2016 was a very even side, contributors across the board .....but they still just scrambled into the 8 .....it was just a fantastic Finals series & not sustainable, as subsequent years have shown

Yes, the team that spent all that money on Tom Boyd was just such an even spread?

Cmon

Have a look at the 2021 team's bottom 6 and do a comparison to the 2016 side

It's not like you to use hypotheticals as an argument

No, if you think there’s a point to be made then make it

No hypothetical needed.

 

[Sanders]

I think the Bulldogs have been underperformers the last few years. Remember, they were fifth last year entering the finals and it was a year when 11 wins got you 7th.

Both years they got to the grand final, they had a good run through the finals series.

Are we really going to throw stones in that greenhouse?

 

[Sanders]

Keath has been okay. Defensive one on ones and key defenders are still the biggest issue at WB, though.

Greenwood has been mediocre, playing a role that puts him constantly around the ball and is incredibly replaceable. I will never not believe that GCS knew EXACTLY what they were doing in luring North to take him.

Betts and Jacobs were both taken by other clubs and given extra years

You can keep up the Vader impression by saying Greenwood was terrible, but it isn’t and wasn’t true.

It’s just not. And Keath has been a LOT better than ok