List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[BrutThough]

It's a bit like the media stating the indisputable fact that Adel would match any offer for Crouch & we'd have to trade our 1st pick for him. Absolutely guaranteed. Lock it in. They're matching... zero doubt.

Hmmm.

Ok, no match but defo Band 1 compo for the Crows. Happy days! Great result for Adelaide.

Ahhh.

Mmm.

They get it wrong. Often.

People are just twigging that Rooey is often off the mark too.

Or like when Jack Steven has leaving and we were going to demand a decent return, even with his issues. But the media kept telling us he would go for very little. And then we went for very little like was reported the entire time.

Or like last year when Sydney fans were adamant they were going to demand more than a first rounder for Dawson but the media said a late first rounder would get it done. And it got done for a late first rounder.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I don't think it's a coincidence the Rumours of hill being unhappy come when he has only 2 years left in a front loaded contact.

Hill could play out his contract at st Kilda and earn a million. Then maybe get a 1 year contract on minimum wage .

Or

He can say he is unhappy and tell clubs he'd take a pay cut from 850k-900k a year to 500k a year if he is given some security in a 4 year contract seeing out his career.

Results netting hill close to an extra million when all said and done.



On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Hill's contract was front loaded?

Or is that, along with the Jay Clark rumour about him sooking about his role, an indication that the forum is turning & turning quickly?

 

[Yawkey way]

To get their expected end of first round priority pick, we'd probably have to give something else as well.

Coke or Pepsi?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Rumours hill isn’t happy.
Rumours Clarko wants him.
Seen having coffee together.
No word from saints.

Good. Let’s keep it that way - North have to make all the running here.

 

[BrutThough]

But there isn’t a single media story saying the saints are forcing him out.

The stories are Hill wants out and Clarko WANTS Hill at North.

Now internally we might be high fiving - which I doubt.
But we aren’t selling him to speak which is Joffaboy point

Sam Edmund and Jay Clark have both reported tension from players and coaches towards Hill by the end of the season. So bold and underline whatever you want, but there are stories for both sides out there.

 

[stavro#4]

Sam Edmund and Jay Clark have both reported tension from players and coaches towards Hill by the end of the season. So bold and underline whatever you want, but there are stories for both sides out there.

So frustrations from players and coaches = we want to trade Hill?

I don’t need to underline anything in that sentence to show you it doesn’t.

 

[BrutThough]

So frustrations from players and coaches = we want to trade Hill?

I don’t need to underline anything in that sentence to show you it doesn’t.

Or that frustrations from players and coaches indicate we are happy for trade him and we don't hold the whip hand in negotiations you think we do.

 

[Fehring]

I think we are offering up big money. I can almost guarantee that we'll at least try to blow Collingwood's tight cap out of the water. This is Lethlean's pride on the line. The only reason Hill is even being considered is because they want to go all in on JDG and Ratts has a fetish for him.

We ran Hill's value down by doing what we have done with heaps of players under Ratts. We play him out of position or in ways that don't maximise performance like we did with Battle, Ross and now guys like Snags. We seem to have an issue using existing player and want to play a game style that doesn't use what we have at hand.

When he has JDG off HBF next year and he's a spud you'll be saying that selling him for 4th round pick and paying his $900k pa for 5 years is a good move.

I think you're wrong on Snags. He started the season in career best form, then he had the two back-to-back concussions (missed about four games the second time?) then came back lacking confidence/unfit. You can perhaps blame the club for him coming back so poorly, but I don't think it's gameplan that's holding him back.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Or like when Jack Steven has leaving and we were going to demand a decent return, even with his issues. But the media kept telling us he would go for very little. And then we went for very little like was reported the entire time.

Or like last year when Sydney fans were adamant they were going to demand more than a first rounder for Dawson but the media said a late first rounder would get it done. And it got done for a late first rounder.

Stuv was a very different story. He had barely played for us in his final year due to his mental health issues….the writing was on the wall.
And in the end, it turned out exactly that way - we didn’t get very much, but neither did the Cats.

Not at all comparable to Hill’s situation.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Sam Edmund and Jay Clark have both reported tension from players and coaches towards Hill by the end of the season. So bold and underline whatever you want, but there are stories for both sides out there.

Which may be the reason Hill wants out, but doesnt mean we are looking to shop a valuable asset For next to nothing.

I’m sure there’s often tension between player and coaches.

 

[austinnn]

No way would I be satisfied if we fell into finals playing like we have this year with an easier draw.

Pretty much every win we had was FAR from convincing... and practically every loss we had was because of the same systemic problems occuring over and over.

Plus we had as good a run with injuries as you will get, plus the bulk of our list are in their prime years.

This is as good as it gets?
Falling into 8th with a soft draw, being pantsed in week 1 finals?

Yuck.

I want us to win a flag- forget the win loss and look at how we have played this year vs how the flag contenders have played.

We are miles off flag contention- and haven't moved an inch closer to it in 2 full years now.
How far we are from a flag needs to be what we are measuring- not win/loss or whether we scrape into 8th.

That is honestly a great review if where we're at this tour and in general. I really hope the Noble Inquiry draws the same conclusions and the club move on clear eyed, because honestly from Bassat to Ratten, the club seems to be totally blind to reality - at least publicly.

 

[bird_man]

To get their expected end of first round priority pick, we'd probably have to give something else as well.

To get their expected end of first round priority pick, we'd probably have to give something else as well.

More than happy for us to pay some of his salary for pick 20

Not for a mid 30's pick. That would be an embarrassing move.

 

[BrutThough]

Stuv was a very different story. He had barely played for us in his final year due to his mental health issues….the writing was on the wall.
And in the end, it turned out exactly that way - we didn’t get very much, but neither did the Cats.

Not at all comparable to Hill’s situation.

I'm not comparing the circumstances of the trade but just using it as an example of the reported value of a player being more accurate than what the fan base says.

You could use Bruce as another example. Or Dogs supporters thinking they would get a 2nd rounder for Lipinkski. Or Freo fans thinking they could get Jordan Clark for cheap despite reports he would cost more.

 

[Joffaboy]

Or that frustrations from players and coaches indicate we are happy for trade him and we don't hold the whip hand in negotiations you think we do.

Ok to put this rather strange tangent to bed, can you please point to one article specifically stating from an administrator, like Lethlean, Gallagher, or Bassatt that St.Kilda are looking to trade Brad Hill?

Because the only reports are that a North player has contact Hill to urge him to look at joining North and another saying he and Clarko have had coffee catchups during the year.
There was a tweet with the clip from Clarkson saying he would look good in Blue and White.

Then there was rumours from a journo (who did he speak to Hill, his manager?) Hill wasn't happy.

Not a single thing from anybody in any capacity from the STKFC.

Until we have an official statement from the STKFC what their position is, the facts as we stand at the moment is

North are buying, Saints are not selling.

So the current status is that Hill is a contracted Saints player. If the buyer wants him they need to buy him, St.Kilda do not need to sell him. If he was OOC that is a different matter.

But facts are facts as they stand with the current info in front of us.

 

[stavro#4]

Or that frustrations from players and coaches indicate we are happy for trade him and we don't hold the whip hand in negotiations you think we do.

• He is a contracted player.
• Who’s salary has no impact on who we want to sign (JDG) or our current playing list.
• He still has elite traits and has shown during games this year he can have a massive impact on the result. Hence why another AFL club wants and that club led by his former coach who is arguably the GOAT or Atleast in the modern era.

To supplement your view, there would need to be a reason we would just salary dump him.

Is there another big fish we need to land? (Doubt it, but let’s keep an eye on Dunkley)

So what value do we gain by binning Hill for a 30s/40 pick?

What explanation is there that says we won’t have the whip hand based on the above?

 

[BrutThough]

Ok to put this rather strange tangent to bed, can you please point to one article specifically stating from an administrator, like Lethlean, Gallagher, or Bassatt that St.Kilda are looking to trade Brad Hill?

Because the only reports are that a North player has contact Hill to urge him to look at joining North and another saying he and Clarko have had coffee catchups during the year.
There was a tweet with the clip from Clarkson saying he would look good in Blue and White.

Then there was rumours from a journo (who did he speak to Hill, his manager?) Hill wasn't happy.

Not a single thing from anybody in any capacity from the STKFC.

Until we have an official statement from the STKFC what their position is, the facts as we stand at the moment is

North are buying, Saints are not selling.

So the current status is that Hill is a contracted Saints player. If the buyer wants him they need to buy him, St.Kilda do not need to sell him. If he was OOC that is a different matter.

But facts are facts as they stand with the current info in front of us.

There hasn't been a statement that we are going to trade Hill. But when given the opportunity to shut it down, Ratts didn't. Instead of saying the 'Hill is a required player' line or that he won't be going anywhere, it was a wishy washy 'we will wait and see' type answer.

So all I am saying is that our position might not be as strong and it might not be completely North driven as you are making it out to be.

 

[Veer Right]

Hill would only receive a second based on past reputation. He will be 30 by mid season next year, has played half a year (first half of this year) of solid football out of his past three. I have to laugh at pick 30s being unders when looking at our 'best 22 team for next year thread', we have 3 posters out of 11 that have him in their squad. That's our 900k import that can't even make the bench. Think about that.

If Hill was on 250k it's still a pass because his teammates don't have his full respect from what i have read on here from time to time. A lot of saint supporters don't respect him. I fail to see how any conclusion sees Hill remain at this club if there is a choice to part ways.

Clarko will look after his mate Ratten and hand over a token second rounder and that will be that.

Then i will read we have offered JDG six years at 900k and wonder if we are right back where we begun. JDG is quality though. Something to work with.

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm not comparing the circumstances of the trade but just using it as an example of the reported value of a player being more accurate than what the fan base says.

You could use Bruce as another example. Or Dogs supporters thinking they would get a 2nd rounder for Lipinkski. Or Freo fans thinking they could get Jordan Clark for cheap despite reports he would cost more.

Bruce was OOC. Dunkley (contracted) wanted to go but Bombers wouldn't part with two firsts so he stayed at the Bulldogs. Be even able to ask for two firsts this time because he is OOC.

Papley (contracted) wanted a trade to Carlton, two dp's, fell through, still at the Swans

 

[BrutThough]

Bruce was OOC. Dunkley (contracted) wanted to go but Bombers wouldn't part with two firsts so he stayed at the Bulldogs. Be even able to ask for two firsts this time because he is OOC.

Papley (contracted) wanted a trade to Carlton, two dp's, fell through, still at the Swans

Bruce had a year to go on his contract.

What does Dunkley and Papley have to do with media reporting of their value? The trades didn't fall through because the media reported what the expected trade would cost.

 

[Joffaboy]

There hasn't been a statement that we are going to trade Hill. But when given the opportunity to shut it down, Ratts didn't. Instead of saying the 'Hill is a required player' line or that he won't be going anywhere, it was a wishy washy 'we will wait and see' type answer.

So all I am saying is that our position might not be as strong and it might not be completely North driven as you are making it out to be.

Things change of course, but until they come out and say we want to trade, we have the whip hand. He is not OOC. All is our choice, we don't need to do anything.
It is the choice that we make is the thing to discuss. If we make a late second, I agree with gringo and Lethlean and Gallagher should be immediately sacked.
We need to trade fairly but we hold the cards. As I said their proposed PP (around 20) and they take 700k of a 900k salary and we deal. Not ideal considering we paid so much for him, but that would satisfy both parties and we move on.

In isolation that would give us picks 9, 19, 28, 46 and an extra 1.4 mill in the kick.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you're wrong on Snags. He started the season in career best form, then he had the two back-to-back concussions (missed about four games the second time?) then came back lacking confidence/unfit. You can perhaps blame the club for him coming back so poorly, but I don't think it's gameplan that's holding him back.

He's scared to take a shot and passing off to guys in worse positions now. To me he looks Rattsed.

 

[Joffaboy]

Bruce had a year to go on his contract.

What does Dunkley and Papley have to do with media reporting of their value? The trades didn't fall through because the media reported what the expected trade would cost.

The Dunkley and Papley deals fell through as they were contracted.

We wanted to rid ourselves of Bruce, no indication we want to rid ourselves of Hill

 

[Joffaboy]

He's scared to take a shot and passing off to guys in worse positions now. To me he looks Rattsed.

That's confidence. It was the media tearing strips off him for taking shots, noticed v Sydney, they tore strips of him for not taking shots.

You remorselessly attack the coach at every opportunity even when it is obvious that the kid came back rattled after two concussions (considering he had brain surgery) and he was under confident.

 

[BrutThough]

Things change of course, but until they come out and say we want to trade, we have the whip hand. He is not OOC. All is our choice, we don't need to do anything.
It is the choice that we make is the thing to discuss. If we make a late second, I agree with gringo and Lethlean and Gallagher should be immediately sacked.
We need to trade fairly but we hold the cards. As I said their proposed PP (around 20) and they take 700k of a 900k salary and we deal. Not ideal considering we paid so much for him, but that would satisfy both parties and we move on.

In isolation that would give us picks 9, 19, 28, 46 and an extra 1.4 mill in the kick.

We would probably have to pay more than 200k to get that pick out of them. It's one of the most sought after picks in the draft given it's the first of day 2.

I still think a late 2nd is a lot closer to what we can expect to get back.

 

[saintvic]

I wonder if having Lenny Hayes

Lenny Hayes

Age

45

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

0.4

3star

to coach next season could lure one of the gws mids like Taranto to think more seriously of coming to the Saints?