Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Hatchy1992]

That's where it gets messy
I'm not sure we can expect Ratts to fill in for 12-18 months.

Im pretty sure Ratten signed a multi year contract (please correct me if im wrong) so I don't think that'd be a hassle if he has to coach into next season too.

Clarko will be back. I would bet my house on it.

 

[blackshadow]

Good to see Judy keeping things professional and not letting emotion or hyperbole take over.

lol

Looks like a bit more sabre-rattling from Judy.

If she and her clients are so determined to take legal action why haven't they lodged writs? Just looks like they're angling for a settlement and don't want it to go to court.

 

[blackshadow]

Work safe could go after the Hawks.

Could but I doubt it as the claims appear to be outside the statute of limitations for worksafe.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

The AFL now needs to bring this investigation to an end - all matters to be finalised by Friday week.

What started out as a noble gesture at reconciliation of very old Hawthorn related matters by the AFL has now turned into a circus - as was always likely to happen.

By Friday week all parties will have had ample time to assess their position, gather facts and mediate where necessary.

The investigating panel will then have until June 30 to finalise and release their report.

If any party wants to take court action subsequent to the release of the report that is their right to do - but it will be out of offical AFL ends and the AFL itself will most likely be a party to any such proceedings.

This has all now become so politicised and embarrassing that it needs to be brought to an end.

 

[DesertRoo]

The AFL now needs to bring this investigation to an end - all matters to be finalised by Friday week.

What started out as a noble gesture at reconciliation of very old Hawthorn related matters by the AFL has now turned into a circus - as was always likely to happen.

By Friday week all parties will have had ample time to assess their position, gather facts and mediate where necessary.

The investigating panel will then have until June 30 to finalise and release their report.

If any party wants to take court action subsequent to the release of the that is their right to do - but it will be out of offical AFL ends and the AFL itself will most likely be a party to any such proceedings.

This has all now become so politicised and embarrassing that it needs to be brought to an end.

Part of me thinks that Kennett knew the people involved, knew the story, knew was a nothingburger before the report was commissioned and did this for political reasons rather then some plot to get Clarko back.

 

[r_boy]

lol

Looks like a bit more sabre-rattling from Judy.

If she and her clients are so determined to take legal action why haven't they lodged writs? Just looks like they're angling for a settlement and don't want it to go to court.

How quickly can one lodge such writs? I have no legal background

 

[gokangas]

lol

Looks like a bit more sabre-rattling from Judy.

If she and her clients are so determined to take legal action why haven't they lodged writs? Just looks like they're angling for a settlement and don't want it to go to court.

As JK said - put up or shut up.

 

[Elite Master]

If god forbid this is the end of the road for Clarko than I don't feel as bad as I would have otherwise been because I get the feeling the full time keys would be handed to Ratten. I suspect he'd accept the offer.

 

[ferball]

Part of me thinks that Kennett knew the people involved, knew the story, knew was a nothingburger before the report was commissioned and did this for political reasons rather then some plot to get Clarko back.

Maybe.

I reckon what he said about the Courtin/her clients - put up or shut up - is just designed to throw fuel on the fire.

I don't think he cares one way or the other.

 

[DesertRoo]

Maybe.

I reckon what he said about the Courtin/her clients - put up or shut up - is just designed to throw fuel on the fire.

I don't think he cares one way or the other.

I think he cares way more about ideology then football.
I think the timing of pouring fuel on the fire coincides with the afl support for the voice.
It’s probably a logical fallacy on my part linking two unrelated events, but can’t discount timing when politicians are concerned.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Has Leon Zwier been relieved of his duties yet?

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I think he cares way more about ideology then football.
I think the timing of pouring fuel on the fire coincides with the afl support for the voice.
It’s probably a logical fallacy on my part linking two unrelated events, but can’t discount timing when politicians are concerned.

Jeff Kennett was never at that end of the Liberal Party. Granted, that's all the Liberal Party is these days, but back in his day, he was a pure economic rationalist who stood in stark contrast to John Howard and the conservative ideologists.

 

[DesertRoo]

Jeff Kennett was never at that end of the Liberal Party. Granted, that's all the Liberal Party is these days, but back in his day, he was a pure economic rationalist who stood in stark contrast to John Howard and the conservative ideologists.

You’re probably right
but Kennett strikes me as that guy who’s two favourite cable tv channels are Sky up late and Fox News.
When leaving the hawks rather then shafting Clarkson and fracturing the club, I can imagine his motivation as leaving a massive big turd on the perceived ‘woke’ afl.
The guy still holds gollywog dolls dear to his chest, as part of some sort of historic fight. I don’t think the logic jump is that far.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Merlin007]

Who do we reckon Burt is acting for in this?

The AFL were seemingly working hard to close down an imbroglio as best they could (admittedly having messed it up at the outset), and just at that moment, having said nothing for 8 months (other than the obvious denial), along comes Jason with a can of petrol and a box of matches to do a media interview.

He apparently still loves the Hawks but the AFL are all 'brand'.

Join the dots.

 

[LB2Snake]

can we please have the copy past giantroo?

 

[bengrina]

Who do we reckon Burt is acting for in this?

The AFL were seemingly working hard to close down an imbroglio as best they could (admittedly having messed it up at the outset), and just at that moment, having said nothing for 8 months (other than the obvious denial), along comes Jason with a can of petrol and a box of matches to do a media interview.

He apparently still loves the Hawks but the AFL are all 'brand'.

Join the dots.

Sorry mate , can you please join the dots for me? Unsure what you are insinuating here haha

 

[giantroo]

can we please have the copy past giantroo?

​

AFL 2023: Mark Robinson on the cultural bomb escalating the Hawthorn racism scandal​

The differing accounts of what happened when Jason Burt said he, Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan visited ‘Zac’ and his pregnant partner is a cultural bomb, writes Mark Robinson.

Who does the AFL believe – Jason Burt or “Zac’’?
And what does it do now in this escalation of the Hawthorn racism scandal?

The differing accounts of what happened when Burt said he, Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan were at Zac’s house, which eventuated with Zac leaving his pregnant partner, is more than a dilemma.

It’s a cultural bomb.

Separately, the AFL is attempting to reach a settlement with four other Indigenous families, via their lawyer Leon Zwier, but that deal is dead in the water.

The families didn’t like the settlement. They want apologies from Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, among other requests, but apologies won’t be forthcoming.

That impasse will likely lead to a Human Rights Commission outcome.

Zac and his wife are already pursuing a pathway to the Human Rights Commission.

That pathway will soon be a highway.

The AFL must feel like it is banging its head up against a brick wall.

The Indigenous families feel like they have been banging their heads against a brick wall for the past decade. The Indigenous people of Australia would probably say they’ve been banging away for 300 years.

To try to make a complex situation simple, all the families with grievances against Hawthorn, the AFL and Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, believe they have been subjected to intergenerational racism.

That’s not being called nasty names, it’s about the displacement of families, of white people telling black people how to live and who to live with.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

Their lawyers have been made aware of the claims the families feel like they have been subjected to intergenerational trauma.

Burt, who was Hawthorn’s welfare manager, said at the weekend that he had “nothing to say sorry for’’.

But he also spoke of the edgy and intimidating interaction at Zac’s house, which Burt says he, Fagan and Clarkson attended.

“I think that’s the part that overstepped the mark from being supportive to what could be deemed intimidating. And I get that and that’s what makes me feel uncomfortable,” Burt told Nine Media.

Zac’s version of events was disturbing reading.

There were tears at the meeting. Zac’s partner didn’t want him to leave. Zac’s partner, who is now his wife, lost their baby afterwards.

Their accounts differ as much as black against white.

Plainly, Burt said Zac wanted to leave his partner, but Zac’s lawyer has described it as “forced separation”.

In the middle of all this is the AFL.

It already had Burt’s version of events – Burt said he had previously spoken with the AFL – and it’s not known if it was the first time they had read Zac’s version.

Zac’s claim was not investigated by the AFL’s independent panel, because Zac refused to be part of it. But the goalposts have moved dramatically.

In one interview, the first from any of the accused, Burt validated that the event took place.

One of the four families – who still have Zwier as their representative despite unease over the proposed settlement – also claimed they were separated.

They believe it was an abuse of their human rights.

AFL boss Gillon McLachlan can’t ignore Zac’s version of events.

Neither can commission chairman Richard Goyder.

The AFL has its core values and racism policies and it is now confronted with testimony from one former Indigenous player who says he was forced out of his home.

It was edgy and intimidating, Burt was quoted as saying.

Aside from the four First Nations families still in settlement talks with the AFL, the league has to determine if the alleged actions from Clarkson, Fagan and Burt at the house that day are in breach of AFL rules and regulations.

If the answer is yes, a sanction could be imposed.

If the answer is no, then there’s nothing to see here.

But if it is no, that won’t be the end of it.

​

If the Human Rights Commission finds Hawthorn and the coaching trio breached the human rights of Zac and his partner, the AFL will have the nation looking at it for a response.

In the meantime, what the AFL can’t do is nothing.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Did Robbo expect Burt to come out and say, "Yep, it happened exactly like Zac said"?


The way he's phrased that entire article is to insinuate that Burt backed up Zac's side of the story completely, which he didn't at all.

Burt said that Zac's story in parts matched what he believes happened, but there were significant differences between the 2 stories. Which Robbo has chosen to ignore to publish an article rehashing what everyone already knows.

 

[r_boy]

Did Robbo expect Burt to come out and say, "Yep, it happened exactly like Zac said"?


The way he's phrased that entire article is to insinuate that Burt backed up Zac's side of the story completely, which he didn't at all.

Burt said that Zac's story in parts matched what he believes happened, but there were significant differences between the 2 stories. Which Robbo has chosen to ignore to publish an article rehashing what everyone already knows.

There's no new information there.

Judy Courtin calls it a forced separation but cleverly there was no denial at all that Zac wanted to end things.

The rumours are this player isn't even Indigenous, and yet Robbo tries to connect it to stolen generation somehow.

So yeah just trying to create another news article and generate some clicks

 

[justroyal]

Obviously Burt told Fagans and Clarkson that he was going to tell his story of events, correct?

 

[Tas]

​

AFL 2023: Mark Robinson on the cultural bomb escalating the Hawthorn racism scandal​

The differing accounts of what happened when Jason Burt said he, Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan visited ‘Zac’ and his pregnant partner is a cultural bomb, writes Mark Robinson.

Who does the AFL believe – Jason Burt or “Zac’’?
And what does it do now in this escalation of the Hawthorn racism scandal?

The differing accounts of what happened when Burt said he, Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan were at Zac’s house, which eventuated with Zac leaving his pregnant partner, is more than a dilemma.

It’s a cultural bomb.

Separately, the AFL is attempting to reach a settlement with four other Indigenous families, via their lawyer Leon Zwier, but that deal is dead in the water.

The families didn’t like the settlement. They want apologies from Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, among other requests, but apologies won’t be forthcoming.

That impasse will likely lead to a Human Rights Commission outcome.

Zac and his wife are already pursuing a pathway to the Human Rights Commission.

That pathway will soon be a highway.

The AFL must feel like it is banging its head up against a brick wall.

The Indigenous families feel like they have been banging their heads against a brick wall for the past decade. The Indigenous people of Australia would probably say they’ve been banging away for 300 years.

To try to make a complex situation simple, all the families with grievances against Hawthorn, the AFL and Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, believe they have been subjected to intergenerational racism.

That’s not being called nasty names, it’s about the displacement of families, of white people telling black people how to live and who to live with.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

Their lawyers have been made aware of the claims the families feel like they have been subjected to intergenerational trauma.

Burt, who was Hawthorn’s welfare manager, said at the weekend that he had “nothing to say sorry for’’.

But he also spoke of the edgy and intimidating interaction at Zac’s house, which Burt says he, Fagan and Clarkson attended.

“I think that’s the part that overstepped the mark from being supportive to what could be deemed intimidating. And I get that and that’s what makes me feel uncomfortable,” Burt told Nine Media.

Zac’s version of events was disturbing reading.

There were tears at the meeting. Zac’s partner didn’t want him to leave. Zac’s partner, who is now his wife, lost their baby afterwards.

Their accounts differ as much as black against white.

Plainly, Burt said Zac wanted to leave his partner, but Zac’s lawyer has described it as “forced separation”.

In the middle of all this is the AFL.

It already had Burt’s version of events – Burt said he had previously spoken with the AFL – and it’s not known if it was the first time they had read Zac’s version.

Zac’s claim was not investigated by the AFL’s independent panel, because Zac refused to be part of it. But the goalposts have moved dramatically.

In one interview, the first from any of the accused, Burt validated that the event took place.

One of the four families – who still have Zwier as their representative despite unease over the proposed settlement – also claimed they were separated.

They believe it was an abuse of their human rights.

AFL boss Gillon McLachlan can’t ignore Zac’s version of events.

Neither can commission chairman Richard Goyder.

The AFL has its core values and racism policies and it is now confronted with testimony from one former Indigenous player who says he was forced out of his home.

It was edgy and intimidating, Burt was quoted as saying.

Aside from the four First Nations families still in settlement talks with the AFL, the league has to determine if the alleged actions from Clarkson, Fagan and Burt at the house that day are in breach of AFL rules and regulations.

If the answer is yes, a sanction could be imposed.

If the answer is no, then there’s nothing to see here.

But if it is no, that won’t be the end of it.

​

If the Human Rights Commission finds Hawthorn and the coaching trio breached the human rights of Zac and his partner, the AFL will have the nation looking at it for a response.

In the meantime, what the AFL can’t do is nothing.

We should get Harley Reid to come out and say it is against his human rights to be forced to move to Perth. :stern look

 

[giantroo]

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Obviously Burt told Fagans and Clarkson that he was going to tell his story of events, correct?

You'd imagine he would have given them the head's up but who knows.

 

[Themanbun]

One thing I can confidently say is that not a single article from any journo, throughout this whole saga, regardless of which side the article takes, has made this situation better.