Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[travelli]

I don't think it's enough to end Clarko's career, but it's enough for an employee to sue their employer.

 

[roos_18]

I agree, but it is a terrible decision to get involved in this. The guy is a grown up and they were involving themselves in his private life. Particularly if they were moving him away from his pregnant partner.

There's a huge power imbalance there and could easily be seen/experienced as coercion. That's completely understandable. And now Burt has confirmed it, it seems to be fact.

It’s not a terrible decision. It happens a lot in football. Hard conversations need to be had and happen all the time and that’s a fact! In those hard conversations there is always options.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

The man in question said he was forced to dump his now wife. An the coaches where pushing for an abortion, which they claim she miss carried the baby due to the stress of the HFC .

You've mixed up two stories.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Where are you getting "premiership player" from and where are you getting "aboriginal" from? Unless you mean VFL premiership player.

My understanding is that Zac is not Aboriginal.

Zac isn't Cyril Rioli, Brad Hill or Buddy Franklin, if you are trying to imply that.

HS letter from Zacs lawyer and Burts recent comments an Hs..

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

You've mixed up two stories.

Possible!

 

[TheTrufHirts]

They were accused of Racism.

None of what anyone has said confirms racism was involved.

Giving someone advise to leave their toxic relationship is not racist.

Telling someone who is struggling with the thought of being a father "have you considered an abortion " is not racist.

Please someone tell me what part of what we know is racism.



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[Colby Cheer Squad]

They were accused of Racism.

None of what anyone has said confirms racism was involved.

Giving someone advise to leave their toxic relationship is not racist.

Telling someone who is struggling with the thought of being a father "have you considered an abortion " is not racist.

Please someone tell me what part of what we know is racism.



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There may be some cultural insensitivity at play rather than racism, but it hasn't even been established that anyone said "have you considered abortion." In fact, Jason Burt told The Age, "It was never said to any player in any type of circumstance, that abortion was an option."

 

[mcnulty]

There was also the suggestion a while back that one of the players was in fear of their partner‘s father. Was that Zac?

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

There was also the suggestion a while back that one of the players was in fear of their partner‘s father. Was that Zac?

I think that might have been Ian. Not entirely sure.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

HS letter from Zacs lawyer and Burts recent comments an Hs..

I think you might need to go away, re-read the articles and gather your facts because as a Hawthorn supporter, you've made a bit of a dill of yourself coming on here and proclaiming that there were only two "Aboriginal" players in Hawthorn's 2013 premiership team, and whether that bears any relevance whatsoever to this story.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

I think you might need to go away, re-read the articles and gather your facts because as a Hawthorn supporter, you've made a bit of a dill of yourself coming on here and proclaiming that there were only two "Aboriginal" players in Hawthorn's 2013 premiership team, and whether that bears any relevance whatsoever to this story.

There was two that had issues with the club and both left.

I think you might need to go away, re-read the articles and gather your facts because as a Hawthorn supporter, you've made a bit of a dill of yourself coming on here and proclaiming that there were only two "Aboriginal" players in Hawthorn's 2013 premiership team, and whether that bears any relevance whatsoever to this story.

*There's two that had issues.

Buddy who left was unhappy with Clarko.

An the Riolis have gone on public record as having issues of racisim at the Hawks.

 

[DunderHead]

The lawyers response is super petty. calls out that Clarko Burt and Fagan had knocked into each other in the hall and discussed the matter. But when they decided to all attend the house together Burt was obviously already there.

It doesn’t mean they didn’t discuss the matter after bumping into each other in the hall - just that the decision to go to the GFs house to support the player was made later.

For anyone going cold on Clarko. Imagine the context that leads to all three going to the house. As if the coach and one of his assistants have time to help with this Mickey Mouse bullshit. Must have been a very toxic situation for them to get involved. There will come a point where the accused will be forced to give this sort of background info and it will get much uglier. Should be concerned about how the couple (who are no doubt vulnerable individuals) will cope.

I hope this Courtin lawyer knows what she’s doing. Reeks of a continuation of the fame-grab that saw Rusty publish his piece.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Passmore]

Do we have a racism investigation no longer about racism? When this falls over and we find out that the player was looking for a excuse to ditch his partner, what next?

Is Clarkson going to be investigated for not siloing his players by skin colour?

 

[justroyal]

****. I can’t believe I’m going to say it. I agree with jeff

 

[DocSholl]

I agree, but it is a terrible decision to get involved in this. The guy is a grown up and they were involving themselves in his private life. Particularly if they were moving him away from his pregnant partner.

There's a huge power imbalance there and could easily be seen/experienced as coercion. That's completely understandable. And now Burt has confirmed it, it seems to be fact.

I agree it doesn't present well and is being easily dismissed by some, but it also lacks a whole lot of context/background information

 

[blackshadow]

I feel a bit dirty but I agree with JK in this instance.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

Feels like Clarko won't be back for some time...

Who pays his salary?

 

[DunderHead]

I feel a bit dirty but I agree with JK in this instance.

It’s a good response. It’s on the same pithy level that Courtin has made.

Everyone else are more cautious because of messiness of the situation. Jeff is Teflon and this Lawyer potentially just wants to look like a freedom fighter.

 

[the big lebowski]

There was two that had issues with the club and both left.

*There's two that had issues.

Buddy who left was unhappy with Clarko.

An the Riolis have gone on public record as having issues of racisim at the Hawks.

You have a SAVAGE understanding of all this.

 

[Passmore]

There was two that had issues with the club and both left.

*There's two that had issues.

Buddy who left was unhappy with Clarko.

An the Riolis have gone on public record as having issues of racisim at the Hawks.

Was Franklin unhappy that Clarkson was a racist, or was just sick of the coach?

McKernan couldn't handle Pagan any more, so he left. Keith Greig told Barassi that he'd stay at North if he didn't speak to him all season. Won the B&F that year too.

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[see see]

Hawthorn racism saga: Lawyer Judi Courtin releases statement on behalf of family after Jason Burt interview​

One of the families pursuing action against Hawthorn has described a tell-all interview by ex-Hawk official Jason Burt as “a disgrace”. READ THEIR STATEMENT IN FULL

Michael Warner and Glenn McFarlane

3 min read
May 27, 2023 - 6:58PM
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-racism-saga-jason-burt-opens-up-admits-to-feeling-uncomfortable-about-some-events/news-story/bb033fb97a4ba899647a7c52ad72b5fa

The Hawthorn racism scandal has exploded amid fresh allegations over former coach Alastair Clarkson’s role in the “forced separation” of a First Nations couple.

In a dramatic escalation of the crisis, lawyers for “Zac” and “Kylie” – a husband and wife caught up in the saga – released a statement detailing the club’s role in facilitating their 2013 break-up after former Hawthorn player welfare manager Jason Burt gave his own version of events on Saturday.

Lawyer Dr Judy Courtin, who represents the Hawks’ couple, detailed how Zac was “visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying” when Clarkson allegedly “dominated and led the discussion” about his “forced separation” from his pregnant partner.

Dr Courtin said that the couple were “disgusted” at how events that had allegedly taken place at Hawthorn were being “downplayed, and in some instances, entirely misrepresented”.

Burt confirmed on Saturday that he, Clarkson and then Hawks footy boss Chris Fagan had gone to the couple’s home when Zac told Kylie that their relationship was over.

But Dr Courtin contradicted Burt on several key points, alleging that the day before that discussion Burt had invited Zac’s mum to a meeting to “discuss and plan” the “separation” – without ‘Zac’s knowledge.

READ THE STATEMENT IN FULL BELOW

“Burt says that: ‘It wasn’t a pretty discussion and ‘Zac’ came and delivered the news’. That is incorrect. ‘Zac’, visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying, barely spoke in that meeting and it was Clarkson who dominated and led the discussion,” Dr Courtin said.

A view of some close to the AFL investigation has been that some of Clarkson’s conduct has been unfairly characterised as racism, given his hard-nosed approach to all of his players.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied any wrongdoing.

The Clarkson camp said on Saturday night it was aware of Dr Courtin’s statement, but declined to comment.

The war of words comes as AFL chiefs scramble to find a resolution in the almost nine-month-long racism storm.

Dr Courtin is already preparing a civil court action against Hawthorn over the claims.

She said her clients maintained Burt and Kylie’s mum were “outside the house and not privy to the majority of the conversation inside with Clarkson, Fagan, Zac and Kylie.”

She also claimed that correspondence from the time speaks to a conversation between Burt and Kylie with Burt saying the separation was not “instigated by Zac, rather by Clarkson”.

The lawyer’s statement quotes Kylie as saying: “Not once had Jason said Zac wanted to end the relationship, in fact it was reiterated to me as entirely the opposite.”

She also said Burt contradicted himself in the interview when he said he, Clarkson and Fagan had met in a corridor when all three decided to go to the meeting at Zac and Kylie’s house.

Burt also told Nine: “In the process, Clarko said: ‘I’ll come’. Fages said: ‘I’ll come’. I said: ‘I’m already there’.”

Dr Courtin also claimed Burt knew her clients had become engaged.

Kylie said in the statement: “Jason absolutely knew we were engaged. Zac had distributed engagement party invitations at the club prior to the meeting and after the meeting Burt texted me to see if I needed help cancelling the engagement party.”

Zac also said: “Not only did Burt know that we were engaged, he knew Kylie was pregnant with a planned pregnancy.”

The couple have questioned Burt’s expression of regret over what had happened at Hawthorn, detailing their belief that he had contacted Zac’s previous employer and family members after the initial story broke in September last year, seeking “information” on Kylie.

Dr Courtin said the couple had been left with “scars and significant trauma” from the association with Hawthorn, dismissing Burt’s view that they had “left the HFC better people” as “insanity.”

Burt said in the Nine Media interview that he had agreed to accompany the player in going to see his partner to end the relationship.
“At the time I gave this consideration and thought, ‘This is probably edgy’,” he said.

“In the process, Clarko said: ‘I’ll come’. Fages said: ‘I’ll come’. I said: ‘I’m already there’.

“It wasn’t a pretty discussion and ‘Zac’ came and delivered the news.”

He said the addition of Clarkson and Fagan at the meeting with the player and his partner could now be considered “over the top”.

​

“It probably should have been just me in with ‘Zac’ ... I think that would have been far less intimidating,” Burt said.

This allegation of separation was first aired in Hawthorn’s cultural review conducted last year.

STATEMENT FROM JUDY COURTIN RELATING TO ZAC AND KYLIE​

"What a mess. What a disgrace”.

These are the words of my clients.

We represent “Kylie’’ and “Zac” in a civil claim for the harm caused to them when “Zac” was a player at the HFC. Last year, the HFC caused a whole new bout of harm to my clients when the findings of its ‘Cultural safety Review’, in which my clients participated, were reprehensibly mismanaged by the Club.

The Review and its disturbing findings were the making of the club and, thus, its responsibility.

The HFC shamefully shirked that responsibility by relinquishing it to the AFL to fix. But ‘fixed’ it is not. Battle lines have been entrenched. Too many peoples’ lives have been turned upside down, including my clients, and there is no end in sight.

What could have been a restorative and healing process underpinned by the truth, has been seriously corrupted.

“Zac” and ‘‘Kylie’’ are lionhearted people. They feel for the suffering of all parties in this regrettable saga, including those accused in the Cultural Safety Review. But my clients want the truth to be told and acknowledged. They want and need some justice and they want to heal.

Jason Burt has come out in today’s Age and provided his version of events in relation to my clients.

Whilst our clients are grateful to Jason Burt for acknowledging some elements of the past events, they are disgusted at how they are being downplayed, and in some instances, entirely misrepresented.

Burt talks about the fateful day when he, Clarkson and Fagan took “Zac” to his own home to tell “Kylie” that “Zac” is leaving the relationship.

The day before, Burt had invited “Zac’s” mother to a meeting with Clarkson and Fagan to discuss and plan the ‘separation’ of “Zac” and “Kylie”. This was done without “Zac’s” knowledge.

Burt says that: “It wasn’t a pretty discussion and “Zac” came and delivered the news.”

This is incorrect. “Zac”, visibly distressed and uncontrollably crying, barely spoke in that meeting and it was Clarkson who dominated and led the discussion.

Our clients say that on this day, Burt and “Kylie’s” mum were outside the house and were not privy to the majority of the conversation inside with Clarkson, Fagan, “Zac” and “Kylie”.

Further, correspondence from the time speaks to a conversation between Burt and “Kylie” with Burt saying the separation was not instigated by “Zac”, rather by Clarkson.

“Kylie” says: “Not once had Jason said “Zac” wanted to end the relationship, in fact it was reiterated to me as entirely the opposite.”

Burt, in today’s article in the Age, says that he, Clarkson and Fagan met in a corridor and all three decided to go to the meeting at “Zac” and “Kylie’s” house. On the other hand, Burt says: “In the process, Clarko said, ‘I’ll come’. Fages said, ‘I’ll come.’ I said. ‘I’m already there’.”

Burt stated that he did not know “Zac” and “Kylie” had just become engaged. “Kylie” says: “Jason absolutely knew we were engaged. “Zac” had distributed engagement party invitations at the club prior to the meeting, and after the meeting Burt texted me to see if I needed help cancelling the engagement party”.

To counter Burt’s views in today’s article, “Zac” tells me: “Jason’s version is completely inaccurate. I was set to play a game that weekend, I’d gone to training feeling good. I knew exactly where my footy was at, it was speaking for itself’.

“Kylie” and “Zac” question Burt’s ‘regret’ portrayed in today’s Age article. After this story broke in September 2022, Burt contacted “Zac’s” previous employer and family members seeking ‘information’ on “Kylie”.

“Zac” and “Kylie” insist that the HFC instigated the ‘meddling’ – the forced separation of “Zac” and “Kylie”.

“Zac” says: ‘Not only did Burt know that we were engaged, he knew “Kylie” was pregnant with a planned pregnancy’.

My clients say: ‘For Burt to insinuate that we left the HFC better people, is insanity. We left that club with scars and significant trauma’.

My clients look forward to the day when they can have a face-to-face meeting with Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. “Zac” and “Kylie” want what is right.

Finally, it was noted in today’s Age article, that I declined to comment on Burt’s version of events. It was neither possible nor proper to comment when I had not read the article and had not received instructions from my clients. Only now is the right time to comment.

Good to see Judy keeping things professional and not letting emotion or hyperbole take over.

 

[Ischenko]

Well, we need to have a conversation about the complainants being conspirators in some sort of shake down for money.

The salient point is that the complainants didn't initiate this debacle with either a legal claim or a media sensation - they responded to a process initiated by the Hawthorn Football Club, in which the club assured them they would be safe. As I understand the sequence of events, they only got involved with Rusty Jackson AFTER Jackson had received a copy of the report (in other words, after Hawthorn breached their confidentiality).

So if we're looking for conspiracists, I'm not looking at the complainants, who can't have orchestrated this to their advantage because they didn't start it.

But of those who did kick it off, who's got some ulterior benefit?

At that point, I'm looking at the former President. Mr Kennett seems to me to have distinctly narcissistic tendencies - everything is about Jeffery. So if Jeffery needs to be the author of Hawthorn's golden era, who does he need to discredit or get rid of?

Alastair Clarkson.

So I'm looking at Kennett for someone to blame, not the indigenous people who were only asked questions commissioned by him.

YES. This has Kennett’s filthy fingerprints all over it. Clarkson is a hard arse who works people hard to win games of football. There is plenty of evidence that caring for those people is part of working them hard.

Kennett is a very highly skilled political operator and a known racist for whom people are pawns in power games. As always, in any mess of a political situation — and this is 100% a political situation — look for those who have the real money, power and influence. Clarko has more than the complainants, who I really feel for. But someone else has more than anyone, and somehow they are avoiding serious scrutiny…

 

[Lomas]

Who pays his salary?

Income insurance?

 

[JGreezy]

HS letter from Zacs lawyer and Burts recent comments an Hs..

I just checked and can't see where it mentions him being aboriginal or a premiership player.

My understanding is that he is not indigenous Australian and was not in the premiership side.