Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[blackshadow]

doesn't always have to be a joke either, growing up in the country with long hair and a pierced ear i received plenty of comments re my appearance, it was obvious they were not attempts at humour either,

I can imagine.

What are ya?
****in ****ta!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Hey South of the Yarra why do you think the Hawthorn stuff is being pursued so vigorously when Phillip and Jim Krakouer's far more detailed and sound claims against numerous players, the league and a coach has got nowhere near as much traction?

Great question mate. It all comes down to media attractiveness. A whole club saga attracts controversy, it attracts drama, it sells papers. Unfortunately Jimmy and Phil suffer from severe Aboriginal stereotyping and Aboriginals such as Jimmy and Phil, Jimmy in particular don’t sell. Media want to highlight them when things are bad but move on quickly when the focus is the years or horrendous racial abuse they copped.

 

[Del191229]

From a Hawthorn point of view, Clarkson, supported by his wife Caryn, bore the brunt of those sessions. Although he and the other ex-staffers have always vehemently denied the allegations of mistreatment of former First Nations players and their partners, the four-time premiership coach acknowledged the hurt suffered by players and others during their time at the club and subsequently. An independent AFL panel made no finding against Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt after investigating the allegations.

Three sources close to the mediation process confirmed that Clarkson not only accepted that the families and staffer Leon Egan had suffered pain, but also recognised the existence of historic cultural trauma he could never hope to understand. Those sources did not want to be named due to the confidential nature of the mediation.

What else do can we plausibly expect from him here? Coz if Clarko is being run out of the game for historical offences, then a whole lot more are going with him, including Sheedy and the whole Collingwood Football Club.

Why Clarkson is in danger of becoming North’s greatest liability

Appointing the four-time premiership coach was meant to herald a bright new era for the Kangaroos, but things haven’t gone according to plan.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Del191229]

Great question mate. It all comes down to media attractiveness. A whole club saga attracts controversy, it attracts drama, it sells papers. Unfortunately Jimmy and Phil suffer from severe Aboriginal stereotyping and Aboriginals such as Jimmy and Phil, Jimmy in particular don’t sell. Media want to highlight them when things are bad but move on quickly when the focus is the years or horrendous racial abuse they copped.

Yep, chimes with my view too, and that they've dared call out Essendon's behaviour prior to the great reinvention of the early 90s.

Jimmy in particular is being racially abused all over again in this process, it's disgusting.

 

[Del191229]

Rubbish,

Well, that settles it.

I have heard older more conservative dressing individuals make these type of comments to younger people with more casual dress sense all the time. other variations of the theme are, "are you off to the beach, "did you ride your motorbike in" "washing day?" etc...

They sound like old campaigners

Even my father who is old school ( spent a bit of time being a publican) and barely wore a pair of jeans in his life, still wears trousers every day and was forever commenting on people ( myself included) who wore more casual clothing.

If anything it goes back to the white collar/blue coller class thing than any racist undertones.

Good for your Dad.

that would stand regardless of the person it was said to race, hence that race isnt the difference if it were to offend.

I'll go with the Aboriginal person's take on what is or isn't racist.

 

[Del191229]

I get that too and did point out that the intent of the joke can vary and we weren't there to judge that so I accept that it could be racist if directed that way. Context! Its critical. BUT I am not trying to defend JK - can't stand him. Just saying that I can see how it could just be a joke that was taken the wrong way. I have other examples of similar things that I would have said years ago but would not now. But not targeted at a person by race. Anyway, times have changed and I do accept that if a person feels something said to them is racist then that's it.

Yeah, that's racism mate. If you make a JOKe about an indigenous person and they "take it the wrong way" its the dictionary definition of racism.

As I said, Aboriginal people don't have a legal responsibility to NOT be offended, people have a legal responsibility to NOT make racist comments.

As I recall, plenty of the arseholes who relentlessly abused Jim and Phil phrased their comments as "jokes" and got "laughs" too.

 

[gokangas]

Yeah, that's racism mate. If you make a JOKe about an indigenous person and they "take it the wrong way" its the dictionary definition of racism.

As I said, Aboriginal people don't have a legal responsibility to NOT be offended, people have a legal responsibility to NOT make racist comments.

As I recall, plenty of the arseholes who relentlessly abused Jim and Phil phrased their comments as "jokes" and got "laughs" too.

I accept that but some jokes are jokes, not race specific. If there were three women all in same jeans, one indigenous, and the same joke was said to all three, then by your definition one joke is racist yet it was delivered with nothing to do with the persons race. I understand and accept what you are saying but it does confuse me. Again, context is important.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I accept that but some jokes are jokes, not race specific. If there were three women all in same jeans, one indigenous, and the same joke was said to all three, then by your definition one joke is racist yet it was delivered with nothing to do with the persons race. I understand and accept what you are saying but it does confuse me. Again, context is important.

Agree that context is critical. I guess if you are the person with the power in the situation - say the president, or the person holding the microphone at an event - it’s on you to think through the context and whether the person you are saying the thing to could reasonably be offended, or it would reasonably be expected to be water off a duck’s back. And the context test is not whether you’d be offended if it was said to you, unless the target of the joke shares your world view and life experiences.

Off the top of my head, a lot of older white men are not sound judges of what it’s appropriate to joke about with women of any age or race, so maybe a whole area best for them to steer clear of.

 

[gokangas]

Agree that context is critical. I guess if you are the person with the power in the situation - say the president, or the person holding the microphone at an event - it’s on you to think through the context and whether the person you are saying the thing to could reasonably be offended, or it would reasonably be expected to be water off a duck’s back. And the context test is not whether you’d be offended if it was said to you, unless the target of the joke shares your world view and life experiences.

Off the top of my head, a lot of older white men are not sound judges of what it’s appropriate to joke about with women of any age or race, so maybe a whole area best for them to steer clear of.

My dear old dad, now departed, was in a nursing home when we took my daughter to see him wearing her new jeans with designer tears. As we were leaving he pulled $50 out of his pocket and told me to buy her some new jeans coz she shouldn't have to go out wearing those torn ones. True story and we still laugh.

 

[DuckYeah]

Caro Caro Caro

 

[LB2Snake]

Caro Caro Caro

Just a hideous “journo” is Caro.

 

[The acurate one]

Every time you acknowledge these types of media personalities a fairy dies.
The day folk start to ignore the Caro's, Robbo's The Corn, is the day they start to disappear.

They lose their relevance.

Trust me, I'm correct.

 

[DuckYeah]

Every time you acknowledge these types of media personalities a fairy dies.
The day folk start to ignore the Caro's, Robbo's The Corn, is the day they start to disappear.

They lose their relevance.

Trust me, I'm correct.

No one does. I simply posted the GOAT Leigh Matthews opinion on the matter at hand whilst admiring the back hander Caro received. Im liking the push back that would have been considered “racist” 15 months ago

 

[The acurate one]

No one does. I simply posted the GOAT Leigh Matthews opinion on the matter at hand whilst admiring the back hander Caro received. Im liking the push back that would have been considered “racist” 15 months ago

Oh yeah I realise you couldn't give a **** byt plenty get worked up over Caro's words.

 

[giantroo]

 

[DuckYeah]

Late to the party O

 

[Danni_Benson]

Wow, ‘a nod’! Mind blowing stuff.

 

[blackshadow]

Wow, ‘a nod’! Mind blowing stuff.

Just imagine the outrage if there was a wink and a nudge…

 

[Hatchy1992]

Being labelled a racist for nodding in agreement...

 

[koshari]

Well, that settles it.



They sound like old campaigners



Good for your Dad.



I'll go with the Aboriginal person's take on what is or isn't racist.

Well by that logic every statement ever said or gesture ever done is racist if anyone of any race states it is.

Well at least we now know we are all racists.

By that definition i would prefer to be racist than discrimitory.

 

[koshari]

Wow, ‘a nod’! Mind blowing stuff.

Surely you can tell it was a racest nod, a person of race said so.

 

[ferball]

I accept that but some jokes are jokes, not race specific. If there were three women all in same jeans, one indigenous, and the same joke was said to all three, then by your definition one joke is racist yet it was delivered with nothing to do with the persons race. I understand and accept what you are saying but it does confuse me. Again, context is important.

Yeah that's kind of how it is. As you say context is important.

My dear old dad, now departed, was in a nursing home when we took my daughter to see him wearing her new jeans with designer tears. As we were leaving he pulled $50 out of his pocket and told me to buy her some new jeans coz she shouldn't have to go out wearing those torn ones. True story and we still laugh.

As you say context is important. So that's a grandparent, not a politician running her husbands footy club, and it sounds like he did it cos he genuinely didn't understand they were designer jeans ... is that right?

 

[BigRedRoo]

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Just imagine the outrage if there was a wink and a nudge…

A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat, ay?

 

[giantroo]