Review Cats bounce the Roos by 40 points

[Lana]

I doubt cats_09 has any influence on the match committee, so I'm unsure what this post is trying to achieve.

Clearly there is unequal distribution of power amongst the Mods here and someone is being excluded

 

[Cursed Cat]

Really dangerous small forwards are a rare thing. Stengle is on track to become one of the greats for sure. In the history of the club, there are names like Cliff Rankin and Specka Moloney. Players whose records sort of speak for themselves.

Great names too - yet a bit like Chappy and Stevie J, I think neither quite fit the small forwards description quite as completely as Stengle (imo).

Rankin was named in the forward pocket (and bagged 5 goals) in the club's breakthrough Premiership win of 1925, but was also regularly named at Full Forward and on the Half Forward line, too. Moloney of course went on to win a Sandover medal as a midfielder (but tonned up for Geelong as a FF - although an undersized one as I understand it).

 

[Cursed Cat]

All those midfielders can play positions on other parts of the ground except Bruhn. He soaks up midfield time as that is all he can do. I think he needs to learn a 2nd position

played a bit forward with the Giants, didn't he?

 

[calder_daddy]

cats_09 where was our supposed clear core 3 mids last night? And tell me how we couldn’t have possibly fit Hardie into this rotation?

This board will say anything to justify not giving him a go. Save the mental gymnastics and admit he’s earned his chance, and the side can only benefit by giving him the litmus test at the top level.

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I don’t rate hardie at all
But absolutely he has deserved his chance, especially over Parfitt last week

 

[Gavin Excell]

Great names too - yet a bit like Chappy and Stevie J, I think neither quite fit the small forwards description quite as completely as Stengle (imo).

Rankin was named in the forward pocket (and bagged 5 goals) in the club's breakthrough Premiership win of 1925, but was also regularly named at Full Forward and on the Half Forward line, too. Moloney of course went on to win a Sandover medal as a midfielder (but tonned up for Geelong as a FF - although an undersized one as I understand it).

There's an argument that the small forward position is more important than ever now

 

[Cursed Cat]

There's an argument that the small forward position is more important than ever now

Absolutely.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

played a bit forward with the Giants, didn't he?

Yeah not real well, you wouldn't have him ahead of our forwards.

 

[bulletproof]

In what I thought was a pretty uninspiring game, I was most pleased with Ollie Henry’s game.

The attack on the ball and the flying for marks was much more what I expected from him.

He seemed to lose a bit of athleticism and he was looking very pedestrian, but that was much better.

 

[bulletproof]

Scott is coaching very well this year, Danger more forward was a good move, we have been breaking down badly at half forward. He just provided a little more of a focal point and stopped the turnovers at half forward.

Bews was a good inclusion too.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

cats_09 where was our supposed clear core 3 mids last night? And tell me how we couldn’t have possibly fit Hardie into this rotation?

This board will say anything to justify not giving him a go. Save the mental gymnastics and admit he’s earned his chance, and the side can only benefit by giving him the litmus test at the top level.

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Yep it's garbage.
MC and this board should both give him a chance. I will be annoyed if he's moved on without getting a game, he deserves a shot.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Thought OHenry had a great game. 18 touches, 11 contested, 2.1 is huge from a key forward. some really good pack marks. He’s def got ‘it’.

And mannagh is a beast. 12 disposals, 9 contested for 2 goals. I just don’t understand how he wasn’t getting a game. The play where he punched it forward, followed up and got us into a goal scoring opportunity (Jezz blew it) was pure will. He just wills himself into every opportunity. He’s fast becoming a favourite.

Henry was better. When he throws himself at the ball with abandon like that it helps our structure as we arent great at pack marking. Good signs. If he keeps that up i think rohan will be the one left out for finals.

You are 100 % right on mannagh. His pressure is fantastic (as was dempsey and stengle) and the only way we win this flag is off turnovers as we arent a strong clearance side. He should have been in all year but better late than never.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He’s done. There’s no point going back to the bews well. So many times he just ran past the play, ineffective. And of course the usual out of bounds on the full under no pressure. We have many younger players to play that role, let’s move on.

That was just a farewell game for a squad player bc tuohy was managed. I doubt bews plays next week and he definitely wont play finals so i wouldnt stress.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yep it's garbage.
MC and this board should both give him a chance. I will be annoyed if he's moved on without getting a game, he deserves a shot.

He does but its not going to happen so we all have to move on.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

No question Mannagh is a good player but since he's been in Miers has put in his 2 worst performances for the year statistically with one of the 3 still being pretty good.

I think the reality is that by playing Mannagh you get the same thing Miers beings but maybe 50% more because you're playing 2 in the 1 role. So it’s a question of using that position to get another 50% of a type you like or 100% of some other structural option.

Bang on the door as much as you want I don't think it's that clear cut.

Miers is a link player with a big tank who is one of the best in the league for the last kick inside 50 for score assists.

Mannagh is quicker, a better tackler and pressure player (but not as big a tank) as your classic force turnovers HF or smaller mid (when he plays there) so they arent competing for the same role imo.

 

[CHAWKTS]

It's "just" North, but great to see the heavy lifting largely done by the Youth plus Stewart.

Dempsey is a bloody find and a half - Humphries played well. SDK back to his best (hope the knee's alright).

Tyson Stengle is the difference between recent success and a few years in the wilderness. Absolutely special player.

I think what Dempsey embodies is the idea that "outsiders" can sometimes bring in new ways of thinking about a problem. The old "basketball background" is a well worn joke, but the way he thinks about the game and executes on those thoughts is unique.

Well put. And sometimes that frustrates me in particular around contest. You know that attempt to tap the ball or wait to tackle and “strip” the ball instead of “traditional” attack the contest. Look it is probably still a little avoidance of the contest but it is also as you say…he is trying to get an advantage a different way. When it doesn’t work it can look bad (and be frustrating) but when it does it has impact. He is pretty good at soccer given not allowed to kick in basketball!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Miers is a link player with a big tank who is one of the best in the league for the last kick inside 50 for score assists.

Mannagh is quicker, a better tackler and pressure player (but not as big a tank) as your classic force turnovers HF or smaller mid (when he plays there) so they arent competing for the same role imo.

Ok sure they play slightly differently but you can't play then in the same space at the same time.

 

[Biscut]

I'm not sure I agree. Just 13 touches, at 60% DE. I reckon any of our three Irishmen today would have got more possies and used it better.

Not debating what the Irish boys could have done but I was at the game and bews played a great game. Stats don’t tell the full story.

 

[Kitcat]

Ok sure they play slightly differently but you can't play then in the same space at the same time.

That’s a good point but the team needs his pace, plus he has spark and drive.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That’s a good point but the team needs his pace, plus he has spark and drive.

Yeah he's definitely adding something, I'm just not sure that not playing him to this point is a clear cut MC error. There's positives and negatives.

It's not like I don't rate Mannagh either. I'm the one who made the outrageous claim that we'd get more out of him than pies got from Lachie Schultz

 

[Seeds]

I dunno. I suppose I place more value on possessions that go to a teammate, rather than OOF. And as much as we'd like him to get a few more touches, I'm not sure I've heard Mark O'Connor in particular accused of not defending; and I would seriously question the accuracy of such statements.

You must not of been a fan of steve johnson then. One of the best passes of the ball ive seen. But his DE was poor because he attempted difficult plays.

The comparison of bews with oconner is similar. Obviously levels below ofcourse. Oconnor rarely takes risks and kicks for safety (admittedly is not as bad as he used to be). Some of the worst passes in the comp have high de cos they know they are bad and just kick to uncontested players most of the time. Bews tries to take the game on. Line breaks and kicks while running at pace. A bit like wojo. With ball in hand im taking bews every day of the week over oconner. Bews can creating scoring opportunities. Oconner simply doesnt.

Oconner can defend too though. My problem is touhy and duncan in defence ahead of the like of bews. Not so much oconner. Problem is they keep playing oconner in the midfield and not in defence.

 

[catempire]

The first five minutes and that patch in the third were symptomatic of our issues this year: letting teams get on a run and finding it very difficult to offer any resistance. Again the problem started in the midfield where we allowed the opposition a free player out the front of the stoppage for an easy handball release. Once we got on top of that North had virtually no plan to do us damage. Their forward play and ball movement ahead of centre was the worst I have seen in a long time. So hard to take much from the game other than some individuals.

Stewart was super. He sured up the midfield and was back when we needed him too.

Stengle is a marvel. Just ridiculous we got such a player for free. His cleanness and clinical finishing is sublime.

Both Ollies were lively forward. Dempsey makes things happen from nothing. Henry, despite his critics here, is extremely dangerous in the air and his goalkicking under-appreciated.

The n00bs, Mannagh and Humphries, continued to look right at home.

 

[cats_09]

What form? That was his first game.

VFL & training form

 

[Seeds]

He does but its not going to happen so we all have to move on.

Why isnt it going to happen? Why do we have to move on?

 

[Generalissimo]

You must not of been a fan of steve johnson then. One of the best passes of the ball ive seen. But his DE was poor because he attempted difficult plays

I don't judge forwards by those metrics. You expect lower DEs from forwards generally. If a player isn't taking a shot on goal but passing it off it's a lot harder because it gets more congested quicker and the oppo are flooding back. Look at Neale yesterday, going at 45%, but I don't care about that.

Poor efficiency in defense is something I care more about. D50 turnovers are killers because that's how you concede goals. You don't want to be repeatedly kicking OOF on a half back flank, and I maintain both Tuohy and Shark (and probably Mullin) would have collected as much footy while committing fewer clangers.

 

[bombersboy]

I think he's the type of player who will appeal to the judges more with his awesome bullocking work. I don't think Ollie has been as consistent as Wardlaw across the season.

Because he has been better or because Norf?

No doubt Wardlaw hard at it but he had a Disposal Effectiveness rating of 50%