Collingwood's 2012 Draft Prospect Talk - Picks 18, 19, (updated), 20, 38

[blaze036]

Will these 4 picks be coming with the team to Utah? Anyone know when we are leaving? Suns are over there at the moment i think (or possibly Arizona)

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The new draftees normally stay back here, IIRC. Timing doesn't quite work out. When we drafted Ball they made quite a big deal about the fact that he'd jumped on the first plane over there (Arizona that time) because it was the exception.

 

[motr]

Garlett has the more complete game for mine. Has a much better outside game and probably the better inside game of the two. More duel sided. Better decision maker under pressure and in congestion just doesn't make any mistakes getting through trafic and always using it really well and easily. Just does everything really naturally well, gets plenty of it and produces. Bit like Alex Fasolo a couple of years ago could be that slider who came under question for personality and can be had a good 10-15 selections lower than he probably deserves and has the production to back it up.
Garlett for me if he keeps focused as he has been this year (all he needs is good coaching staff, leadership group and culture - which we have and will benefit moving interstate and he'll be fine) he can become close to the best player in this draft and very likely a big time difference maker. Can really find a role in his own right for our team as a guy who can rotate as a inside/outside mid and off a forward flank.

Kennedy has that pace, that explosive kick and the ability to win his own ball as the footage suggests and with those attributes as with Simpson it does catch the eye, but his pressure game isn't good enough for a player at his size, then outside game really quite poor. Additionally I've been pretty disappointed with the lack of improvement he has shown this year. Was a top 5 quality prospect coming into the season but has dropped down some and feels like he has maxed out. Hasn't developed endurance as hoped and is the same player he was this time last year with an ok but not great inside game and no outside game - and looking more like an explosive small forward without a particularly impressive pressure and tackling game which he really should with his pace.
Good player and has something to work with but I wouldn't be spending a 1st round selection on him when much more complete players are available who could more easily find a role in our team. Just no need for more small forwards. He'd be competing with Blair for that position in the team and don't really see the point with Blair already fine as that small forward who can play through the midfield when required.

Your assessment of Kennedy is a bit harsh. You've no doubt seen more of him than me, but I get the impression you've really devalued his future worth as a midfielder. For mine he seems to have the makings of a very good midfielder and has immediate value as a small forward. It's disappointing because I was hoping he'd soak up an early pick for us.

 

[Couch Coach]

At present I have a top 10 of: .....

Of those I have in 1st round consideration who could be within our realistic range are (in bracket is chance of availability): Stringer (unlikely but possible), Vlastuin (unlikely but possible), Garlett (chance), Hrovat (likely), Clurey (chance), Garner (unlikely but possible), Wright (likely).

After this I would be more looking towards the 2nd round with: Membrey (unlikely but possible), Pongracic (chance), Lonergan (unlikely but possible), McIntosh (unlikely but possible), McDonough (likely).


My order will likely be different again this time next week but just what I have at present and what I'd be looking at from a Collingwood perspective with those 4 selections.

Knight,

A few questions:
1st round / 2nd round - I assume you mean 1st round = 18, 19 and 21, while 2nd round = 39? or do you class 21 as 2nd round? I can't see Membrey or Lonergan being around at 39.
Wright - You seem to have started pushing Wright higher up your lists lately. I have a query over his ball drop and the amount of steps it takes for him to get it on the boot. To me he seems to take 2 more steps than required and therefore he could get run down from behind at AFL level. His ball drop also seems off, to me he just pushes his arms out straight and drops the ball rather than guiding it onto his boot. Thoughts?
Simpson - No love as a first rounder? I agree Garlett should be in front of him but if Garlett was gone he would surely have to be considered around our pick?

 

[Knightmare]

Your assessment of Kennedy is a bit harsh. You've no doubt seen more of him than me, but I get the impression you've really devalued his future worth as a midfielder. For mine he seems to have the makings of a very good midfielder and has immediate value as a small forward. It's disappointing because I was hoping he'd soak up an early pick for us.

Kennedy has impressed in the u18s as a midfielder at times because he does have those outstanding athletic qualities but I'm not sold on him as a midfielder.

In a similar way to Blair he has difficulty finding the outside ball and then on the inside while he has impressive breakaway pace which is a standout asset he isn't the dominant inside ball winner of a Hrovat. I have Kennedy in the basket where his inside game is good for u18s but will struggle to stack up at the next level against the bigger bodied, more powerful midfielders whereas a Hrovat for example at a similar height is just so much technically more sound with his inside game in the way a Sam Mitchell is with his work in close, as a clearance player than on the ground and with his ability to use the footy in close - I see him really becoming that full time inside midfielder. I just don't see these aspect being nearly as strong with Kennedy to suggest he has that pure, full time midfielder potential and projects more as a guy who can play some on ball but mostly rotating out of the forwardline.

He will be an immediate player and should play to a solid standard from season one for whoever drafts him but I feel too much overlap in our team with too many small forwards. His explosive pace and long kick are appealing qualities and he is that more immediate player but I don't see him as a fit for our team or adding anything we don't already have with a surplus of small forwards.

Knight,

A few questions:
1st round / 2nd round - I assume you mean 1st round = 18, 19 and 21, while 2nd round = 39? or do you class 21 as 2nd round? I can't see Membrey or Lonergan being around at 39.
Wright - You seem to have started pushing Wright higher up your lists lately. I have a query over his ball drop and the amount of steps it takes for him to get it on the boot. To me he seems to take 2 more steps than required and therefore he could get run down from behind at AFL level. His ball drop also seems off, to me he just pushes his arms out straight and drops the ball rather than guiding it onto his boot. Thoughts?
Simpson - No love as a first rounder? I agree Garlett should be in front of him but if Garlett was gone he would surely have to be considered around our pick?

Correct. By first round I'm talking at selections 18,19,21 and by second round 39.

You are right Membrey and Lonergan should be taken by 39.
The reasons they could slide (and again I have both in the highly unlikely basket) - Membrey possibly because of the history of those undersized key forwards sliding. You only have to look at Paine last year who we got at 50 when some were tipping he would go top 15. Then Kersten is another who really slid down the order last year into the 30s as a similar, well performed undersized key forward.
With Lonergan he could go top 15 or he could slide into the 2nd round. Tasmanian talent has often proven difficult to identify and sometimes these types can slide further down the order than expected.

With Wright he has had some injury issues early season (hand) and this might have made this ball drop worse than it probably could/should be. His kicking is his relative weakpoint but the consensus is that he will be able to iron it out and get it to a much more solid level than it is at, at present. I suspect he will start to get more confidence back in his hand and once he does his ball use should be more sound than it was this year.
Really increasingly high on his game because with his run he has the ability to generate some really meaningful drive off a back flank and I think he might have some hidden value others might have missed with his hardness and underrated ball winning ability.

Simpson for me is a fallback option in the first round if none of the other options appeal. He does offer something we lack with outside pace and damaging footskills which is a big tick. Additionally I think he is someone who will benefit from moving out of WA. I'm just not as sold on his production which just hasn't quite been up to the level I was hoping this season. Doesn't win his own ball as a Garlett does, while damaging he isn't Lewis Jetta and he needs more than 15 disposals, 1 goal if playing colts footy to really suggest he will be a particular productive player at the next level.
He is looking something closer to a shorter Kieran Harper where he might find 5-10 touches a game, kick a goal and be damaging when he has it, but just not find/win enough of the footy.
I just see some better options with more substance and better rounded games in the Stringer, Vlastuin, Garlett and Hrovat group particularly standing out with Clurey who while not a need is another absolute ripper if available at 18.

 

[jackcass]

I don't know how Emma complies her list, all I know is she gets closer than almost anyone else.

I guess that my point was some people place a lot of faith in mock drafts and treat those who make them as some kind of knowledgeable drafting guru when it reality they know nothing more than "Snowy on the Tram". Of course people are entitled to make all kinds of predictions and it does no real harm, unless another person becomes agitated because a club didn't take a player predicted by one of these self anointed guru's.
I read the mock drafts and treat them as just another speculative rumour and I believe 99% of all rumours are bullsh..
Others get a great deal of pleasure out of them.

Agree BJ, mock drafts are nothing more than a good speculative read. Usually get a half decent player profile which builds understanding and awareness but that's about it.

 

[jackcass]

I'd love for GWS to pick up Tippett, superb.

As I've said elsewhere, Tippett, Patton and Cameron is a scarey looking forward line. Not that Goodes, Reid and Tippett is any less scarey I suppose.

 

[sr36]

You are right Membrey and Lonergan should be taken by 39.

I have nothing to go on except Youtube and descriptions, but Membrey sreams slider to me.

 

[TradeDraft]

I have nothing to go on except Youtube and descriptions, but Membrey sreams slider to me.

Well he could be as he is a Tweener as he is too Short for a KPF and Not a Midfielder

 

[Shade]

Like Kersten last year everyone had him pretty highly and he slipped because he was a tweener i think Membrey will do the same

 

[Knightmare]

We can only hope with Membrey.

This issue with him is that clubs are very aware of his strong finish to the year, but not only that but also the speculation that he could develop into a midfielder - unlike Kersten/Paine doesn't help us.

A final issue with this draft is that it's really that top 20, maybe top 30 then it opens up. Membrey is probably part of that top group before it really opens up, on the offchance that he isn't considered in that top group then perhaps we get lucky, that said still against the odds until it happens.

My understanding is that Gold Coast like him, Western Bulldogs at 22 are considering him then Port Adelaide in the 30s are that final club who should pick him up on the offchance that he is still there having expressed a very strong interest also from what I've been told. Stranger things have happened though.

 

[gifted1]

Knight or maybe Chris25
do you know anything about Brad Hartman
Indigenous kid playing at Sturt from the Murray region
heard that he had 34p kicked 8.5 for the u/18 in the sanfl in one of the last games of the year
quite a tallish kid from reports, smashed it at state screening
word is he is in draft contention

 

[Quicky]

Did Membrey play any minutes in the midfield? Or was he purely a forward? I understand that he may have some qualities that translate to the midfield but I think showing those as a forward is different than as a midfielder. It really is a 360 degree game in midfield and that is hard to teach. If you were selecting him as a midfielder you would want to be sure he could make that adjustment which is difficult to judge if he was pidgeon holed into a forward role.

 

[sr36]

Did Membrey play any minutes in the midfield? Or was he purely a forward? I understand that he may have some qualities that translate to the midfield but I think showing those as a forward is different than as a midfielder. It really is a 360 degree game in midfield and that is hard to teach. If you were selecting him as a midfielder you would want to be sure he could make that adjustment which is difficult to judge if he was pidgeon holed into a forward role.

Agree, particularly as we already have Goldsack, Macaffer and Paine on our list. I personally hope that best available is not the player type that Membrey is described as.

 

[Knightmare]

Knight or maybe Chris25
do you know anything about Brad Hartman
Indigenous kid playing at Sturt from the Murray region
heard that he had 34p kicked 8.5 for the u/18 in the sanfl in one of the last games of the year
quite a tallish kid from reports, smashed it at state screening
word is he is in draft contention

You are right. He is very much in contention and recent talk is he could be a speculative late draft option and if we use that final selection, one I suspect might be in our shortlist quietly.

Has some athleticism to him and did have that freak game at the end of the year where he just went off.

He is an undersized key forward at 188cm so likely projects as more of a 3rd tall. Very strong overhead and has some real quickness to him. Finishing around goal good. Inconsistent and will need to work on that pressure side of his game and develop his endurance but the talent is there and could be worth a shot.

Hartman is a similar player to those of you who know Troy Taylor some years ago - just without those same issues so there could be something there.

 

[Knightmare]

Did Membrey play any minutes in the midfield? Or was he purely a forward? I understand that he may have some qualities that translate to the midfield but I think showing those as a forward is different than as a midfielder. It really is a 360 degree game in midfield and that is hard to teach. If you were selecting him as a midfielder you would want to be sure he could make that adjustment which is difficult to judge if he was pidgeon holed into a forward role.

This year he has played exclusively forward but I get the sense without having seen him in his younger playing days that he may have spent some time through the midfield. But I haven't seen it to be able to confirm.

The more I'm looking at other prospects, there are others who are cropping up who I'm slightly favouring anyway (Clurey, Hrovat, Wright, Garner even probably Lonergan) so I'm reasonably ok letting Membrey slip into the 2nd round and maybe look at him again at 39 in the very unlikely scenario he becomes available there.

 

[blaze036]

I don't want membrey purely because watching that tattoo every week will get annoying

 

[TradeDraft]

Shifter top 30

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/shifters-top-30.980288/

 

[motr]

Shifter top 30

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/shifters-top-30.980288/

Where is Mason Shaw? I'd be more than happy if Shaw slipped into our selection zone.

 

[HFF]

Where is Mason Shaw? I'd be more than happy if Shaw slipped into our selection zone.

I'd be pretty happy too.

Mason Wood looks quite good. Don't know what it is but I just really like the look of left footed key forwards.

 

[sr36]

Shifter top 30

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/shifters-top-30.980288/

After reading that, I'm really happy that Toumpas is not likely to make it to our selection. He clearly lacks the confidence to make it and doesn't rate himself judging by this response.

Which AFL player do you feel you resemble?
Bryce Gibbs

 

[ash84]

Three i would love to walk away with in the first round are

Garlett/Simpson
Membrey
Lonergan

Would love Striger to slide to us also.

 

[iGNITER]

Definitaly want one of Garlett or Simpson.

Doubt it would happen but would love to see Menzel slip... Unlikely though

 

[Bard]

Definitaly want one of Garlett or Simpson.

Doubt it would happen but would love to see Menzel slip... Unlikely though

Menzel is the one I'm really hoping makes it to our selections. Seriously doubt it's going to happen, but he's the only prospect that truly excites me that we have the slightest chance of getting. That'll all change come draft day mind you

 

[iGNITER]

Menzel is the one I'm really hoping makes it to our selections. Seriously doubt it's going to happen, but he's the only prospect that truly excites me that we have the slightest chance of getting. That'll all change come draft day mind you

Yeah im the same. From what I have seen kid will be a star.
Would love him to slip to our picks and then also get Simpson/Garlett.
That would be great.