List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  29

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  25

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

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  Last 5

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  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

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  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Trew has had one or two games with decent numbers. That’s it, nothing to me suggests he can be a consistent afl level inside mid.

Petch is 188cm and spends time in the midfield. He’s not a small forward. Cripps is 184cm, Dewar is 185cm and both play further up the ground as high HFFs. They are not small forwards, they are medium forwards at best. Your last sentence doesn’t make any sense in the context of your argument.

Kosi Pickett 171cm is a small forward
Champion 172cm is a small forward
Long 179cm can play as a small forward

Liam Ryan was the only small forward in the team on the weekend so yes, four main list small forwards out of 38 is more than enough.

Liam Ryan is short, but i wouldn't consider him a classical front and center small forward. He is like Phil Matera in that he's a short forward who is at his best on the lead.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Waterman for Demons pick 8. Thanks and done.

We can send them back something in the later rounds if required. Though not sure it is. They need to keep Petracca and co happy, and the best way to do that is to go in on a key forward who is actually decent. Waterman is their best option.

Dees could be swimming in picks. They’ll get something for Neal Bullen.

Their first + second for Waterman.

Pick 8 alone isn’t enough.

 

[eaglevision]

Liam Ryan is short, but i wouldn't consider him a classical front and center small forward. He is like Phil Matera in that he's a short forward who is at his best on the lead.

Not sure we can distinguish between a “small” forward and a “short” forward but I agree with you his role is and strengths are different to the Kosi/Willie/Betts type.

Waterman for Demons pick 8. Thanks and done.

We can send them back something in the later rounds if required. Though not sure it is. They need to keep Petracca and co happy, and the best way to do that is to go in on a key forward who is actually decent. Waterman is their best option.

Before the knives come out for you for trading Waterman I’d be ok with this but nothing going back. Add Bailey and pick 38 to the equation and Melbourne have a new forward line structure and pinch hitting ruckman.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Dees could be swimming in picks. They’ll get something for Neal Bullen.

Their first + second for Waterman.

Pick 8 alone isn’t enough.

Yes, ideally we'd get more than pick 8. At the moment they have 38 and 43 though. Guess depends where the Neal Bullen pick comes in, and whatever else they get.

Think they'd back themselves in for a premiership shot if could add Waterman, and get Oliver and Petracca right and firing. So make them pay as much as possible for Waterman.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Why would we want to trade Waterman?

26yo KPP who has just had a break out season. Top 5 Colman, in AA conversations. Son of a club great.

Sounds like the kind of player you rebuild around.

Darling likely has 1yr left, Allen a gun but has some way to go, AReid untested.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Why would we want to trade Waterman?

I wouldn't.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Why would we want to trade Waterman?

26yo KPP who has just had a break out season. Top 5 Colman, in AA conversations. Son of a club great.

Sounds like the kind of player you rebuild around.

Darling likely has 1yr left, Allen a gun but has some way to go, AReid untested.

At all comes down to what he wants. Is he trying to max out his $'s. If so, fair enough.

The big question for us is a top pick more valuable than a key forward (an area that we are reasonably stocked at) at 27 next year, who has had one good season so far. Everyone always complains we play too tall forward.

It's a tough balancing act. Not saying we should trade him for crumbs, but an offer that is overwhelming will make it very very tempting.

 

[eaglevision]

Horrible news for him but this and DGB not coming on is why the Hawks should be paying top dollar for an elite, contracted KPD, not us accepting unders. Not to mention that it frees up Weddle and Sicily as attacking threats.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Why would we want to trade Waterman?

26yo KPP who has just had a break out season. Top 5 Colman, in AA conversations. Son of a club great.

Sounds like the kind of player you rebuild around.

Darling likely has 1yr left, Allen a gun but has some way to go, AReid untested.

I think some people think this season might be a one-off and it's best to trade him while he's at maximum worth.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I think some people think this season might be a one-off and it's best to trade him while he's at maximum worth.

Plus some of us have great faith in Williams and Reid as forwards (neither of whom are undersized) and both can play 2nd ruck.

Similar to Barrass- it’s a trade we could make to bring in draft capital and we arguably have players who can replace Waterman (over the medium term).

 

[chaddy22]

As much as it would be good to resolve the Tom Barrass

37

Tom Barrass

Age

28

Ht

197cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

6.1

5star

T

0.9

3star

MG

158.5

3star

D

10.1

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.1

2star

M

5.6

5star

T

0.3

1star

MG

139.6

2star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

0.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

situation amicably i think both sides need to be happy.

1.the club needs to get a fair trade.
2.If we Get a rubbish trade does it make sense trading him undervalue.

or
3. if we hold him to his contract i suspect he will be unhappy. So can we come up with a compromise and maybe a little more money for his last three years of his contract.

 

[Keys]

Waterman is 26, which is 3 years younger than Barrass and would be a realistic chance of still playing when we might start to be challenging for finals again - a lot can happen in 4-5 years

So trading him out has less appeal than what we’re doing with Barrass

In our position you’d never say no if the right offer comes along, but it’d need to be something well in our favour. Certainly more than pick 8 on its own

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Waterman is 26, which is 3 years younger than Barrass and would be a realistic chance of still playing when we might start to be challenging for finals again - a lot can happen in 4-5 years

So trading him out has less appeal than what we’re doing with Barrass

In our position you’d never say no if the right offer comes along, but it’d need to be something well in our favour. Certainly more than pick 8 on its own

It’s similar in the sense that both have value, and both have notional replacements already on our list.

Granted HEdwards probably has more exposed form and is more established than Waterman’s replacements.

 

[Bacchus]

Disagree to some degree that we hold the whip hand.

He’s contracted- so yes we do- but also we are in DESPERATE need to bring in more picks to assist our rebuild.

We’re far more desperate for picks than we are to retain TB.

Retaining TB does absolutely nothing for us.

On the flip side- Hawks are desperate for a quality KPD. And KPD’s of Barrass’s quality are rare in the trade market these days.

It’s a bit of both, and is more than just whether he is contracted or not.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Two points -

1) We can’t be too desperate, once you’re too desperate in a sale you’re gone, you accept your upper or lower limit and roll over easily

2) There are other teams that are/would be interested in Barrass which would likely drive up his selling price as they are competing against each other for his services

Barrass being contracted does give us a lot of power. We simply don’t do the deal if we don’t like the terms.

If Barrass leaves for just #14 or something the club should be folded, lost all dignity and power.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Two points -

1) We can’t be too desperate, once you’re too desperate in a sale you’re gone, you accept your upper or lower limit and roll over easily

2) There are other teams that are/would be interested in Barrass which would likely drive up his selling price as they are competing against each other for his services

Barrass being contracted does give us a lot of power. We simply don’t do the deal if we don’t like the terms.

If Barrass leaves for just #14 or something the club should be folded, lost all dignity and power.

1) we are desperate… TB staying would arguably be worse for us than Hawthorn not getting him.

2) That’s a valid point. But the other parties (that we know of) are Dogs who will have a pic worse than Hawthorns -likely to be Cats first for Smith.


EDIT/ I think the trade with Hawks will be there first + extras, likely Collingwood’s 2nd unless they go deep in finals which might bring their future first into play with something from us going back with TB.

 

[Chris_6678]

From hearing him on various podcasts he is a very strong minded type of person. I think its as simple as him thinking he was promised a re-structure by the old regime and the new regime has not pulled through and he's pissy.

I hate to break it to Tom but you dont sign contracts with a side promise to increase that contract half way through or expect/demand that promises to increase contracts be adhered to. Ultimately you sign what you sign and if its not in writing, you dont have it. I think he's got very bad advice from his manager more than anything, as it sounds like he thought he was guaranteed something that was never in writing.

There's various rumblings that there is a disconnect between Tom and some of the younger players, which wouldnt suprise me. I'm not too bothered he's going if he's got an attitude and its getting worse.

His manager actually advised him not to go to the club.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

There's various rumblings that there is a disconnect between Tom and some of the younger players, which wouldnt suprise me. I'm not too bothered he's going if he's got an attitude and its getting worse.

I’ve never heard this- where are these rumblings coming from?

 

[Bacchus]

Winder coming good after we had delisted him? Yeah, that sounds about right.

He was always a dominant player in the WAFL, even with us, regularly racking up 30 touches.

Simpson appeared not to rate him as anything, even after he kicked 3 goals in one of his few full games.
After his ‘incident’ that was it. Someone who was already on the outer was kicked out of the known universe entirely.

I am beginning to see more and more that Simpson’s attachment to the 2018 team, the legacy and credits players is a major factor in what has driven the club into the ground.
He couldn’t and didn’t want to develop players apart from the odd individual. Rookie list players were nobodies so very few of them got a chance.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Waterman is 26, which is 3 years younger than Barrass and would be a realistic chance of still playing when we might start to be challenging for finals again - a lot can happen in 4-5 years

So trading him out has less appeal than what we’re doing with Barrass

In our position you’d never say no if the right offer comes along, but it’d need to be something well in our favour. Certainly more than pick 8 on its own

Ok. How about Pick 8 and Melbourne's second next year? That could be pick 30-34'ish.

Free' up our second rounder next year to move into this year.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Why would we want to trade Waterman?

26yo KPP who has just had a break out season. Top 5 Colman, in AA conversations. Son of a club great.

Sounds like the kind of player you rebuild around.

Because he's done all of this with Oscar Allen out of the side.


Different kettle of fish when he hasn't been the man up forward, and unfortunately that isn't going to change.

I like Jake, been probably my favourite player this year. But i do think we need to cash in on his purple patch/breakout year whilst we can, before his output goes back to pre 2024 Jake levels.


18 goals from 8 games since Allen returned. Ave 2.25

33 goals from 11 games prior to Allen. Ave 3

That's what... 25% drop?

His ranking point output over that period has also dropped from 96ppg pre allen to 64ppg.

 

[Bacchus]

Waterman for Demons pick 8. Thanks and done.

We can send them back something in the later rounds if required. Though not sure it is. They need to keep Petracca and co happy, and the best way to do that is to go in on a key forward who is actually decent. Waterman is their best option.

Would be very reluctant to trade out a forward in his mid 20s who has had a breakout year and seems like he’s really committed to the club and wants to stay.

Pushing Waterman out when he really wants to stay would create some very long lasting bad blood which could be counter productive at least in the short term.

 

[random260]

At the end of the day. It's all to prevent eagles nuffies from rallying behind TB and getting him to stay.

Tb trade will be done real quick Hawks don't beat around bush. The Hawks offered their whole land for harley last year.

Expect a first round for tb. That's all this hinges on which we are fine. Extras Is steak knives which better not **** the trade up

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The whole lets trade everyone out concept reeks of North Melbourne

Gotta be smarter about it then that

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Pushing Waterman out when he really wants to stay would create some very long lasting bad blood which could be counter productive at least in the short term.

This board is overly concerned with what happens if a club looks to trade a player.

Honestly the amount of times I see “can’t trade x cos he’s from WA”.

I listen to Xavier Ellis a lot and he talks about the 2010(?) prelim they lost and Clarko told all of them to keep their phones on, cos they might be traded.

That hardly damaged Hawks culture or impeded their success did it?

Collingwood telling Grundy - a 28 year old AA ruckman on long term lucrative deal - to find a new club in 2022 didn’t hurt them or their culture, did it?

Not only that- but what is this culture that we need to preserve that you speak of?

Last I looked we are an overly comfortable, conditional team that puts in when it feels like.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

The whole lets trade everyone out concept reeks of North Melbourne

Gotta be smarter about it then that

More akin to Hawthorn than North.

We wouldn’t be trading anyone that we don’t have notional replacements for -unlike north.