List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%

  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%

  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%

  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%

  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%

  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%

  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%

  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%

  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Total voters
    300
  • This poll will close: .

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Last edited by a moderator:
Dark Sharks said:
Because he's done all of this with Oscar Allen out of the side.


Different kettle of fish when he hasn't been the man up forward, and unfortunately that isn't going to change.

I like Jake, been probably my favourite player this year. But i do think we need to cash in on his purple patch/breakout year whilst we can, before his output goes back to pre 2024 Jake levels.


18 goals from 8 games since Allen returned. Ave 2.25

33 goals from 11 games prior to Allen. Ave 3

That's what... 25% drop?

His ranking point output over that period has also dropped from 96ppg pre allen to 64ppg.
Click to expand...

So how amazing, he plays further up the ground and averages 2.25 goals a game instead of 3.... Almost like he isn't playing FF.

Gee it must be tough for a team if your FF and CHF in one of the shittest teams of all time could average 5.25 goals a game between them....
 
Bacchus said:
Would be very reluctant to trade out a forward in his mid 20s who has had a breakout year and seems like he’s really committed to the club and wants to stay.

Pushing Waterman out when he really wants to stay would create some very long lasting bad blood which could be counter productive at least in the short term.
Click to expand...
We aren't pushing him out. We've offered him a contract. If Melbourne or someone wants to come in with a much bigger offer that he wants to take then so be it.

I want to be clear, if Waterman stays i'm happy. If he gets a crazy offer that he wants to take, and we can leverage that into some good picks, then i'm happy.
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
More akin to Hawthorn than North.

We wouldn’t be trading anyone that we don’t have notional replacements for -unlike north.
Click to expand...
Tom Mitchell aside all Hawks got rid of was absolute potatoes.

Hawks never really traded a current AA footballer and one that is close to it during a rebuild willingly and suggestively
 

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Barass is an easy decision, I think we all can agree he's gone

Waterman is very much a required player. If melb offered their first and one of tholstrup/mcvee we'd had to really consider it. In saying that I'd wouldn't flirt with the idea I think he adds as much on field as he does to the rebuilding culture

I get that everyone wants a dozen first round picks (and so do i) but it is only speculation this year's draft is stacked. It's not really something we can bank on until we look back in 10 years time. We should go in with 2 high picks and 2 or maybe 3 second rounders that's enough without skinning our spine too deep (trading out Waterman and oscar).

Add FOS, lalor, Mraz etc too long, Hewett and a good ruckman and we are significantly on the rise at the expense of list cloggers Edwards, rotham, Gaff, witherden etc
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
This board is overly concerned with what happens if a club looks to trade a player.

Honestly the amount of times I see “can’t trade x cos he’s from WA”.

I listen to Xavier Ellis a lot and he talks about the 2010(?) prelim they lost and Clarko told all of them to keep their phones on, cos they might be traded.

That hardly damaged Hawks culture or impeded their success did it?

Collingwood telling Grundy - a 28 year old AA ruckman on long term lucrative deal - to find a new club in 2022 didn’t hurt them or their culture, did it?

Not only that- but what is this culture that we need to preserve that you speak of?

Last I looked we are an overly comfortable, conditional team that puts in when it feels like.
Click to expand...
This exactly
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
Tom Mitchell aside all Hawks got rid of was absolute potatoes.

Hawks never really traded a current AA footballer and one that is close to it during a rebuild
Click to expand...

What Hawks did is look at their list- understand they have young mids that need to be given opportunity, and they freed up positions on the ground so they could play at AFL level.

O’Meara and Mitchell leaving gave them collateral to get Meek and Weddle- two of their best players this year, and opened up opportunities for Day and Newcombe to play midfield, two more of their best players this year.

Let’s not forget everyone was screaming from the hilltops that Hawks were making list decisions to deliberately tank for Harley.

It’s turned out very well for them - and turned out well for Mitchell (jury is out on JOM).
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
Tom Mitchell aside all Hawks got rid of was absolute potatoes.

Hawks never really traded a current AA footballer and one that is close to it during a rebuild willingly and suggestively
Click to expand...

Hawks do it better than everyone, no surprise they are the best performing club the last 40 years.
If we should follow any clubs lead then it should be Hawthorns.
 
Dark Sharks said:
Because he's done all of this with Oscar Allen out of the side.


Different kettle of fish when he hasn't been the man up forward, and unfortunately that isn't going to change.

I like Jake, been probably my favourite player this year. But i do think we need to cash in on his purple patch/breakout year whilst we can, before his output goes back to pre 2024 Jake levels.


18 goals from 8 games since Allen returned. Ave 2.25

33 goals from 11 games prior to Allen. Ave 3

That's what... 25% drop?

His ranking point output over that period has also dropped from 96ppg pre allen to 64ppg.
Click to expand...
If anything you've highlighted his importance.

He is still averaging 2.25 goals a game even with our main key forward in the side.

Worth keeping IMO.
 
The only reason we can consider the possibility of trading Waterman (192cm) is our current team makeup

Oscar Allen - 196cm a star. Younger and a longer record of performance than Waterman
Jack Williams - 198cm Could see him kicking 30+ goals next year (at age 21 season) if Waterman was gone.
Bailey Williams - 201cm if we are going to play Flynn and Williams he needs to play forward more. Can't do that if Waterman, Allen and Williams are up forward.
Archer Reid - 203cm has potential to be something, needs to play some AFL next year, which is possible if Waterman is gone.
Ryan Maric - 196cm - he's shown talent up the ground on the wing, but think he could be a hyper mobile goal kicking CHF as he gets stronger and develops.

So in short, key forward is an area we are stacked with. All are younger and taller than Waterman.
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
The whole lets trade everyone out concept reeks of North Melbourne

Gotta be smarter about it then that
Click to expand...
Too late..should've been smart about that 3 yrs ago at the end of 21 and 22. Anyone could see the holes in the list, and game style that other teams pulled apart as the impotus for change. We should've been bold, and traded a couple of players of value then. Darling, gaff, Sheed would've all been worth a first rounder. That's three first rounders that would've balanced the Kelly trade.

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Dom sheed pocket said:
What Hawks did is look at their list- understand they have young mids that need to be given opportunity, and they freed up positions on the ground so they could play at AFL level.

O’Meara and Mitchell leaving gave them collateral to get Meek and Weddle- two of their best players this year, and opened up opportunities for Day and Newcombe to play midfield, two more of their best players this year.

Let’s not forget everyone was screaming from the hilltops that Hawks were making list decisions to deliberately tank for Harley.

It’s turned out very well for them - and turned out well for Mitchell (jury is out on JOM).
Click to expand...

To add to my post- I’d trade Waterman for pick 8 and McVee from Demons in a heart beat.

Gives us a player in perfect age bracket, and increases our draft hand.

Also provides an opportunity for JWilliams and AReid jn B22.

If we were to do that trade and trade TB for Hawks 1st and 2nd it’d give us 3,8,12,23,28 at the draft.

I’d argue it helps us fast track experience in to guys like HEdwarss, Bazzo, JWill and Reid.

It’s a departure from our normal MO, but a more aggressive approach to list building is long overdue at our club imo.
 

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Richmond -But there will be more inglorious farewells — or likely farewells — for Shai Bolton, Liam Baker, Daniel Rioli, Dylan Grimes and Jack Graham, who are all premiership heroes of the club in their own right.
It is all part of one of the biggest rebuilds of a football club we have seen in some time. It’s the type of play West Coast haven’t been brave enough to make. Gut the house, flip the place and sell your favourite furniture to fund it all.
This worries me that we will pick up a fewRichmond players which will stal our rebuild
 
tigger_ferret said:
A few injured players I can’t see in that photo, including Hewett and JJ.

Not sure if everyone is just making too much of a photo after training
Click to expand...

People keep focusing on the absences from the photo. What I notice is that Harley Reid is in the photo and is definitely not doing some extra training after the session. I think this proves that he doesn't have the commitment required and should be delisted immediately.
 
eaglevision said:
Trew has had one or two games with decent numbers. That’s it, nothing to me suggests he can be a consistent afl level inside mid.

Petch is 188cm and spends time in the midfield. He’s not a small forward. Cripps is 184cm, Dewar is 185cm and both play further up the ground as high HFFs. They are not small forwards, they are medium forwards at best. Your last sentence doesn’t make any sense in the context of your argument.

Kosi Pickett 171cm is a small forward
Champion 172cm is a small forward
Long 179cm can play as a small forward

Liam Ryan was the only small forward in the team on the weekend so yes, four main list small forwards out of 38 is more than enough.
Click to expand...
One or two games of decent numbers is one or two more than Culley.

I mean if you want to distinguish small forwards and HFFs on arbitrary things sure. I think its pointless tho because essentially all of those players can play both roles. Dividing those players based on height is just weird. Dewar could play as a 'small forward' and Long could play as a "HFF". Ryan can play both. Cripps can play both. Rawlinson is more a HFF anyway.
 
Broken_Chairs said:
Why would we want to trade Waterman?

26yo KPP who has just had a break out season. Top 5 Colman, in AA conversations. Son of a club great.

Sounds like the kind of player you rebuild around.

Darling likely has 1yr left, Allen a gun but has some way to go, AReid untested.
Click to expand...

Correct, he has always been this sort of player, he’s just never had a proper chance without Kennedy and Allen. Taken his game to a new level this year but has always been supremely fit and a gut runner.

Mad to trade him, would only be for an offer out of desperation that they simply couldn’t refuse.
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
Burgiel’s talent is undeniable. He’s fast, very damaging by foot. It’s just about whether he can put it all together.

You give someone like Burgiel more than 2 years to try and figure it out.

It was said by the coaches early this year that he would have debuted if he didn’t have his appendicitis.
Click to expand...
The issue is he doesnt appear that fast anymore.
 
tigger_ferret said:
A few injured players I can’t see in that photo, including Hewett and JJ.

Not sure if everyone is just making too much of a photo after training
Click to expand...

Do we think Harley’s facial expression looks like he’s happy to be in Perth? Is he being touched inappropriately by Jamie Cripps? No headband? Is it packed ready for him to be traded back to Vic? So many questions.
 
Hoskin300 said:
The issue is he doesnt appear that fast anymore.
Click to expand...

I don’t understand the rush to delist Burger.

Gaff is retired, LEdwards would be gettingfelisted but likely medically retired, Jones should be delisted and offered a spot at the Beagles, Barrass is leaving, Rawlinson is a likely delist as well.

On top of that there’s Rotham, Witherden, who’s futures have question marks on them too.

That’s plenty of lost turnover without going early on Burger.
 
Dom sheed pocket said:
I don’t understand the rush to delist Burger.

Gaff is retired, LEdwards would be gettingfelisted but likely medically retired, Jones should be delisted and offered a spot at the Beagles, Barrass is leaving, Rawlinson is a likely delist as well.

On top of that there’s Rotham, Witherden, who’s futures have question marks on them too.

That’s plenty of lost turnover without going early on Burger.
Click to expand...
Im not necessarily desperate to delist. I just think he should go before Baker.
 
Dark Sharks said:
Because he's done all of this with Oscar Allen out of the side.


Different kettle of fish when he hasn't been the man up forward, and unfortunately that isn't going to change.

I like Jake, been probably my favourite player this year. But i do think we need to cash in on his purple patch/breakout year whilst we can, before his output goes back to pre 2024 Jake levels.


18 goals from 8 games since Allen returned. Ave 2.25

33 goals from 11 games prior to Allen. Ave 3

That's what... 25% drop?

His ranking point output over that period has also dropped from 96ppg pre allen to 64ppg.
Click to expand...
2.25 is still a top 8 average in footy, and puts him on track for 51 goals a year.

If we’re cashing in, it has to be a spectacular overpay, otherwise you just back in the Waterman/Allen/Jwilliams trio to provide a focal point for our developing mids.
 
Dark Sharks said:
Because he's done all of this with Oscar Allen out of the side.


Different kettle of fish when he hasn't been the man up forward, and unfortunately that isn't going to change.

I like Jake, been probably my favourite player this year. But i do think we need to cash in on his purple patch/breakout year whilst we can, before his output goes back to pre 2024 Jake levels.


18 goals from 8 games since Allen returned. Ave 2.25

33 goals from 11 games prior to Allen. Ave 3

That's what... 25% drop?

His ranking point output over that period has also dropped from 96ppg pre allen to 64ppg.
Click to expand...

Waterman has improved his running and does more for the side than kicking goals. His age profile also is important for the list.

Improve the inside 50s and he will be kicking plenty of goals.

It would have to be two picks to prise him out. Not worth trading otherwise
 
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