List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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Quick links:
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings



Latest news and rumours:







  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted

  • List Manager Matt Clarke appeared on Sept 11 Gettable - Click spoiler below for summary
    On the draft: "We predicted that the draft was strong, but it's probably gotten stronger during the year."

    On top end of draft: "You could probably make five or six different choices and get it right."

    On Pick 3: "I reckon there's five (players) around that mark."

    On splitting: "I think you want to hold an early selection if you can. The depth of this group allows you to maybe have some movement there, and see what you can do to bring in more talent in the first 20-25 picks. Easier said than done, and I think most clubs would be saying the same thing. We'll see what we can do."

    On Liam Baker: "He's still yet to make a decision. They're still weighing up a few things. We'd love to get Liam on board from what he offers from a talent and leadership point of view. We understand where we're at as a group, we're rebuilding our group, we need to add some guys in the middle tier to support our young group."

    On Jack Graham: "We've got a number of players that we're speaking to. A bit of a wait and see on that one as well. We'll talk to a number of guys."

    On Shai Bolton: "I think it will be difficult for anybody, really. He's heavily contracted and a high quality player."

    On James Peatling: "He's heavily involved in a finals series at the moment so I don't want to comment too much on it, but I think there's a number of guys that have been playing really good footy this year that could suit what we do and what other clubs do. He's taken his footy to another level this year."

    On Tom Barrass: "We've had an early discussion with Hawthorn about it, they understand where we're at. He's nominated Hawthorn as his ideal destination. We want what we think he's worth, as a genuine key back in the competition that can do what he can do. We're obviously mindful of getting an appropriate deal for West Coast."

    On Tom Clurey: "Maybe (note: sounded very non enthused). We'd probably need some key back depth, whether that's through the draft or trade and free agency."

    On Jack Darling: "We've had initial discussions with his management group about (moving). We're open to talking, as we are with all of our players, but Jack's contracted with us."

    On Liam Ryan: "I expect him to be at West Coast next year, yes." (The most definitive answer of the day by a mile, a non-starter of a talking point.)

    On out of contact players e.g. Rotham, Witherden, Jones: "We're still working through what it looks like from a list point of view, and how many selections we'll want to have, and players that may come in and potentially may go out. You might want to give a coach an opportunity to look at these guys."

    On Harley Reid: "We've had discussions most of the year with his management group. I think it sits in a really good place. We're open to doing really whatever they want to do to be honest. We're really confident in building the right system around Harley, on and off field, to make sure that he's really comfortable, that he's going to play his best footy, and his long term future."

    On Jake Waterman's new deal: "Yep, really close. We're working really closely with his management on that. I expect that we'll have something done pretty soon."

    On Oscar Allen: "We've been talking with Oscar and his manager most of the year on that one. We're going through some stuff at the moment. I think we'll be ok with that one."




Past rumoured targets:
 
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After showing they don’t need him to win a flag, would the Lions do 23, Darling and salary contribution for Dev and Coleman?

Another pick to split for points briztoon
Id imagine Coleman is a required player. Zorko isnt getting any younger and they know they have nobody else on the list who can play that half back distributor role
 

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Very un Cleary like.

Starting to get a whiff of what might happening?

Big win for Richmond. We would want something else back?


Sure but why would we tie up $900k / year for 5 years for Jack Graham? If we were going to do that I would want a lot more than a free Liam Baker.
 
Free agency compensation doesn't even come close to reflecting the draft capital that clubs would be prepared to offer for the players. It can't do this even in theory, because the mechanism of attaching the draft pick to finishing position means that there is a 17-place range. A player cannot simultaneously be worth pick 1 and pick 18.

My guess is that Josh Battle would attract a draft pick around the end of R1. St Kilda gets pick 8.
Harry Perryman similar, but GWS gets pick 16.

What really irritates me (and everyone else, I guess) is that it dilutes the draft pool for the 16 clubs not party to the transfer, in a way that trades do not. A whole extra pick is manufactured out of thin air by the AFL.

A fairer solution is to require the club that is bringing in the free agent to pay some compensation. Since no club wants to pay pick 8 for Josh Battle or pick 4 for Ben McKay, that compensation would have to be set at below the pick that would be required in a trade. The AFL's secret formula would have to downgrade the player's value, not upgrade it. If the new club can't afford to pay even the reduced compensation, they go into deficit.

  • The club losing the free agent gets a lower pick, which is good, because they already had years of service.
  • The club gaining the free agent doesn't get a freebie, but does get a discount, which should still be an incentive to acquire players through free agency.
  • The other clubs know that their higher picks aren't affected at all, and lower picks retain a value closer to where they started.
Of course, this will never happen.
 
Sure but why would we tie up $900k / year for 5 years for Jack Graham? If we were going to do that I would want a lot more than a free Liam Baker.
Front load it. 1.5 1.5 700 500 300 we have so much cap space before needing to pay for Harley 2027 onwards and warner 2026

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Can we rent a house to Jack Graham for 400k a year to get a bit of that money back? 😬
 

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A free agent leaving is essentially a salary cap rebate the following year. Why the f do we need to involve a draft pick. If you lose an absolute superstar player, you essentially rebate 1 million a year to attract someone else- that should be your compensation.



On SM-A155F using BigFooty.com mobile app
What is the point of a salary rebate if the other club can't attract a player ?

Eg norf last year . All the salary in the world doesn't help them but a pick does .

I have said it for years the band 1 compo should be mid first round after all the non finalists have picked .

If both Mackay and battle had been pick 11 instead of 3 and 8 it wouldn't be as bad

You would also not get the franklin situation where the biggest contact is history is given and hawks got pick 19 .
 
Very un Cleary like.

Starting to get a whiff of what might happening?

Big win for Richmond. We would want something else back?



If we're going down the route of gifting Richmond pick 2 (which pushes all our picks back a spot, so it's not a victimless concession), I'd want something coming back with Baker. And I don't mean steak knives, but something substantial.
 
Haha, welcome to Bigfooty
Dude, you’ve been here 5 minutes.

Anyway.

I wonder how AFL house feels about the widespread commentary about the joke of the system.

They aren’t known for self awareness .
 
And it moves us a spot back in the draft, giving a rival club a more highly fancied pick.
Hence wanting more than just Liam Baker. I don't mind helping Richmond out as long as we're helping ourselves out as well.
 
This seems like a safe space for a rant/melt:

There is no short cuts in this rebuild, it is a long term pain for long term gain scenario. Anything otherwise will see us as a middling club, not winning our 5th flag.

All low number draft picks should be dedicated to the draft unless a favorable split is available. Even then, the point of bottoming out is access to the elite talent in the pool. We need to be targeting our future A Graders here.

We should only be trading for youngish players on the fringes of good sides who cannot break in and may come over for opportunity, money or job security. Trading third-rounders for Garcia and Dev types is the play.

Use FA for players who improve our best 22, even if they are the 22nd player. Graham or Parfitt are completely acceptable as long as the deal is logical.

Targeting Baker at all is a mistake. Sure, he will probably finish top 10 in our next few B and Fs, but he will cost precious draft capital we cannot afford to give. (Nothing against Baker who is a good player, at the wrong time)

If it is pick 13 (14 now), we are giving up one of our best 5 picks of this rebuild (Harley, Ginbey, Hewett, Pick 3) for a 27 year old flanker.

If we trade the majority of what we receive for Barrass for Baker we both make our team weaker next year and hurt ourselves long-term. It is an incredible outcome.

Mematic_20241004_151313.jpg

Thanks for the rant, I feel better now. Time to see what compo Battle was worth...
 
What is the point of a salary rebate if the other club can't attract a player ?

Eg norf last year . All the salary in the world doesn't help them but a pick does .

I have said it for years the band 1 compo should be mid first round after all the non finalists have picked .

If both Mackay and battle had been pick 11 instead of 3 and 8 it wouldn't be as bad

You would also not get the franklin situation where the biggest contact is history is given and hawks got pick 19 .
Build a good culture?

Hawks lost buddy it opened up salary cap space to bring in someone else because they built a good winning culture.

We need to stop rewarding shit teams

On SM-A155F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
To add to the Mitch Cleary conspiracy.

Cummings paper work appeared to be lodge first but (unless I’ve missed) no compensation pick announced by the afl?

Maybe the AFL are onto it and not trying to give us a sighter of where the Bands land?
 

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List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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