Review Dees V Lions: the Bad, Fugly and Abominable

[Topkent]

First to worst: Fitness no factor, so what's causing Dees' final-term fades? - https://www.afl.com.au/news/1162860





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Haha I ****ing love this. The skin deep analysis of duhh playing kids so we aren't fit was just a bloody copout. We're just a shit team playing shit footy. The list peaked and is on the decline there's no other bullshit reason around it

 

[Crusty Demon]

I've always been interested in average speed in attack v defence with the Tracker.

When we were good (2021 and whenever we played well over the last few years) it was always a marker that our pressure/team defence was on. From memory every final in 2021 it was the case.

When it's significantly higher than our speed in attack we played well, when the average speed in attack was significantly higher we normally played terribly.

It's a mixture of things. I'll keep repeating, no team with half their 22 who are 22 and under is running out games well. 11 players in the last 2 weeks are 22 and under with half those having just a handful of games experience. Throw in an clearly unfit Oliver and Petty on one leg, and it's even more profound..

We couldn't play a more offensive gameplan because we don't have a good enough list to pull it off. And we can't run out games with a younger 22 with the more defensive gameplan. We really are in no man's land this season but having 11 kids in the best 22 the past 2 weeks shows Goofy is at least finally trusting the next gen of players.

 

[Topkent]

It's a mixture of things. I'll keep repeating, no team with half their 22 who are 22 and under is running out games well. 11 players in the last 2 weeks are 22 and under with half those having just a handful of games experience. Throw in an clearly unfit Oliver and Petty on one leg, and it's even more profound..

We couldn't play a more offensive gameplan because we don't have a good enough list to pull it off. And we can't run out games with a younger 22 with the more defensive gameplan. We really are in no man's land this season but having 11 kids in the best 22 the past 2 weeks shows Goofy is at least finally trusting the next gen of players.

8 of the 22 are 22 and under and not half so that's incorrect, 11 over 2 weeks is a wank stat when it's just replacing 3 kids with 3 kids.

Absolutely rubbish the list isn't there to play more attacking, Hawks have won 7 from 8 with kids and running and linking together but apparently we couldn't possibly do that with our team.
We run more than our opponents in last quarters, falling to the propoganda of kids playing so we're shit is just hilarious
Goofy and appropriate nickname for yourself when you get this much wrong

 

[Bluelegs]

The whole 'over two weeks' part is so odd and pointless. Club is effectively running damage control on our season with stuff like this. It also doesn't mean much when most of those kids are fringe and role players anyway.

Those running stats just show we play a taxing gameplan that doesn't work.

Need an Instagram post with 'Top team on the Telstra tracker the past 6 weeks! '

 

[Topkent]

The whole 'over two weeks' part is so odd and pointless. Club is effectively running damage control on our season with stuff like this. It also doesn't mean much when most of those kids are fringe and role players anyway.

Those running stats just show we play a taxing gameplan that doesn't work.

Need an Instagram post with 'Top team on the Telstra tracker the past 6 weeks! '

Definitely damage control, getting excuses out for the club falling apart. A team who thought it could win the flag shouldn't be celebrating the amount of kids it's playing half way into the year. Clearly trying to deflect criticism and get praise while we're actually falling apart

 

[Bluelegs]

Definitely damage control, getting excuses out for the club falling apart. A team who thought it could win the flag shouldn't be celebrating the amount of kids it's playing half way into the year. Clearly trying to deflect criticism and get praise while we're actually falling apart

Like anyone can just look at the ages of a team and say oh they're actually pretty young but you've got to think about the realistic futures of those players.

You can look at North and see a bright future because their kids are the likes of Wardlaw, Sheezel, Mckercher. That's going to be the core of their team, but when you do the same with us and get names like Woewodin, AMW, Brown, Laurie etc it just looks like we are giving these guys a taste because they've not been able to really break into the side and the bottom 6 of our team isn't good enough.

I was having an argument with some Cats supporters earlier in the year saying they still rely too much on their older players and I got a bunch of smug campaigners coming back at me saying "Oh you clearly don't watch us play, Hawkins has been bad and Dangerfield has been out a lot, we are playing lots of kids like Bruhn, Clark and Dempsey. Miers has been our best player!" and it's like, yeah if that's your future you might need to look at the draft a bit more.

 

[Topkent]

Like anyone can just look at the ages of a team and say oh they're actually pretty young but you've got to think about the realistic futures of those players.

You can look at North and see a bright future because their kids are the likes of Wardlaw, Sheezle, Mckercher. That's going to be the core of their team, but when you do the same with us and get names like Woewodin, AMW, Brown, Laurie etc it just looks like we are giving these guys a taste because they've not been able to really break into the side and the bottom 6 of our team isn't good enough.

I was having an argument with some Cats supporters earlier in the year saying they still rely too much on their older players and I got a bunch of smug campaigners coming back at me saying "Oh you clearly don't watch us play, Hawkins has been bad and Dangerfield has been out a lot, we are playing lots of kids like Bruhn, Clark and Dempsey. Miers has been our best player!" and it's like, yeah if that's your future you might need to look at the draft a bit more.

100%
Outside of Rivers and JVR none of them id bet money being AA yet. Mcvee has promise and Windsor is a high pick but yeah there's 400 players in the comp at the level of AMW and Brown, every clubs got about 10 of them on the list. Handful of kids are playing and we've already dropped from top 4 constant to 12th, still gonna get worse before it gets better too. Defence still being held together by May and McDonald, Midfield Gawn and a fat Oliver and the forward line is failed defenders and JVR. We're in a bit better but not much better position than like 2005 us

 

[Bluelegs]

100%
Outside of Rivers and JVR none of them id bet money being AA yet. Mcvee has promise and Windsor is a high pick but yeah there's 400 players in the comp at the level of AMW and Brown, every clubs got about 10 of them on the list. Handful of kids are playing and we've already dropped from top 4 constant to 12th, still gonna get worse before it gets better too. Defence still being held together by May and McDonald, Midfield Gawn and a fat Oliver and the forward line is failed defenders and JVR. We're in a bit better but not much better position than like 2005 us

Yep Rivers, JVR, Kozzy are our next 8-10 years. Windsor, Tholstrup you would be placing a bit of hope on being a part of that too. McVee, Bowey good role players and the rest go from almost confirmed crap to who knows.

I've seen people say that they see Turners as a future Lever replacement. Firstly I'm not sure how that will work as Lever still has plenty of time left but even if it did happen do we really think he'll be as good of a player?

Maybe Tholstrup is our next Viney but again will be be as good? Viney was like a duck to water when he came in, Tholstrup has time but he's not shown that same level early.

Who is our next May? We will never find another player like Gawn. So what does the core of our team look like in 2-3 years?

 

[Topkent]

Yep Rivers, JVR, Kozzy are our next 8-10 years. Windsor, Tholstrup you would be placing a bit of hope on being a part of that too. McVee, Bowey good role players and the rest go from almost confirmed crap to who knows.

Tholstrup and Bowey I wouldn't put money on either. Tholstrup could have a Sparrow ceiling and Bowey my own opinion is I just don't think he plays 150 games

 

[Bluelegs]

Tholstrup and Bowey I wouldn't put money on either. Tholstrup could have a Sparrow ceiling and Bowey my own opinion is I just don't think he plays 150 games

That's why Bowey is just a roleplayer to me. I edited my post to expand on Tholstrup. I tend to agree but he has time on his side so benefit of the doubt.

 

[Topkent]

That's why Bowey is just a roleplayer to me. I edited my post to expand on Tholstrup. I tend to agree but he has time on his side so benefit of the doubt.

Trigger happy tk over here.
Yeah to me Mcvee more likely to play 150 than Bowey, I can see Mcvee playing midfield minutes can't see for Bowey. Could have a similar trajectory to Spargo, might end up getting a few more cause we're shit.
Tholstrup I agree, could be more of a damaging forward than Sparrow but could also be another bad disposal try hard player, it's very unclear.

Turner I agree as well, nothing about him says it yeah that's a long term player. Not writing any of them off but yeah kids are just kids, they'd be amongst the worst group on paper in the comp

 

[Topkent]

Also let's be real
Salem, Hunter, Trac and McAdam would be in if they were fully fit and firing and Tholstrup, Brown, Woewodin and AMW would be in the reserves. It's circumstances only not some plan to rebuild on the run and reward.

 

[mrmonkey]

Also let's be real
Salem, Hunter, Trac and McAdam would be in if they were fully fit and firing and Tholstrup, Brown, Woewodin and AMW would be in the reserves. It's circumstances only not some plan to rebuild on the run and reward.

Pretty sure McAdam is fit, Hunter was available for selection so he's no walk up starter anymore. I think we are seeing some change but not as much as it seems.

 

[Topkent]

Pretty sure McAdam is fit, Hunter was available for selection so he's no walk up starter anymore. I think we are seeing some change but not as much as it seems.

Fit and firing was the key word. Both injury interrupted

 

[Demon Attack]

That Instagram post is pure MFC. All talk, no results. Bunch of campaigners.

 

[melbun]

Lever, May, McDonald, Pickett, Trac, Petty and Turner* all have the gift of "great hands". They can mark a ball in a contest.
Jefferson also has this talent.
Players who have this skill are not plentiful. Melbourne's smaller brigade are all pretty awful overhead.
Compare us to the Swans, Cats, Lions and Giants where, it seems, that everyone can take a grab.
One of the problems our coaches face is "How to balance a team that is so weak overhead?"

*Tomlinson could be in that list on a good day.

 

[mrmonkey]

Fit and firing was the key word. Both injury interrupted

Fair enough, I still think Hunter is on the outer. McAdam not in the team is a bit dumb, let's recruit a natural medium forward, play him for two games and drop him so we can play another tall defender.

 

[Topkent]

Fair enough, I still think Hunter is on the outer. McAdam not in the team is a bit dumb, let's recruit a natural medium forward, play him for two games and drop him so we can play another tall defender.

I agree my point really was that if hunter had a pre season and was playing well he'd be in the team and the whole playing the kids notion wouldn't happen. It's been manufactured and fallen on by the club

 

[Crusty Demon]

Fair enough, I still think Hunter is on the outer. McAdam not in the team is a bit dumb, let's recruit a natural medium forward, play him for two games and drop him so we can play another tall defender.

Wouldn't surprise me if Hunter is gone next season. His offseason was just as crazy as Oliver's, it just hasn't made the headlines like Oliver. I'm glad Goofy is playing the kids and handing out debuts over playing the likes of Hunter and Brown etc

 

[jhong]

I'm all for playing the younger players . I just don't want it to be used as an excuse for what our main issues are .

 

[Crusty Demon]

I'm all for playing the younger players . I just don't want it to be used as an excuse for what our main issues are .

I guess Norf couldn't use that excuse either for the last year or two?

We're not gonna dominate with 11 of our senior team thats 22 and under. Especially when amongst that lot aren't any real budding superstars. It's not that hard to figure out that the more kids you play, the less likely of doing a hell of a llot.whether it's been forced upon us or not through injury or form, it's good to see a lot of the younger blokes getting games.

 

[Fork n Hell]

didn't we have eight 22 and under players in the team when we won the flag?

 

[Bluelegs]

didn't we have eight 22 and under players in the team when we won the flag?

Jackson, Pickett, Bowey, Rivers, Sparrow, Spargo, Petty, Jordon*

 

[Topkent]

didn't we have eight 22 and under players in the team when we won the flag?

Koz, Riv, Jackson, Petty, Sparrow, Bowey. Not sure if I'm forgetting someone

 

[Bluelegs]

I guess Norf couldn't use that excuse either for the last year or two?

We're not gonna dominate with 11 of our senior team thats 22 and under. Especially when amongst that lot aren't any real budding superstars. It's not that hard to figure out that the more kids you play, the less likely of doing a hell of a llot.whether it's been forced upon us or not through injury or form, it's good to see a lot of the younger blokes getting games.

North are asking more of their younger players than we are of ours so yeah there's a considerable difference. Their list profile is completely different to ours so it seems like a fairly pointless comparison.

It's fine to play kids and see what they can do but that's all it is. The way the club is trotting out how many kids we're playing to try and con the supporters to think that we are younger than what we are is stupid when half of the kids we're playing now will not be on the list in 3-4 years.