SugarShane
C12 H22 O11
Nothing makes my day like seeing our incompetence displayed in graphical form. Reminds of the classic "Handball here, not here" post from years ago that has always remained relevant.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Review Good/Bad vs Brisbane, R9 2022
- Thread starter Scorpus
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- Sep 28, 2016
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Finally watched the game last night. Don't think we were out worked, but certainly looked outclassed by a mature team with gun's on nearly every line. A few player observations that stood out;
Thought FOG's game was fascinating TBH, quite clearly had a KPI to contest everything at all costs. Which to his credit I think could only be judged as a success. However he looked a lost in his offensive side because of it. So he obviously hasn't found the balance yet. I'd be willing to see him get a block to see if can marry those sides of his game.
Soligo's footy brain is probably his best weapon. Kid makes smart snap decisions well beyond his years. Plus looks to be a tidy kick, and ferocious tackler. Can see why Nicks took an immediate shining to him. Again time for his block of games and see if he can turn that into more output.
Hately, coming of age game, was the shining light, loved it. Amazing what happens when you play big bodied inside midfielders in the midfield!
Chayce is really making a case for an increased role. Strung a strong month+ together when plenty around him have been poor. For me its now imperative for the coaching staff to find new ways to get his wrecking ball runs into the game. Boost his influence from 2-4 times / quarter to 5-8 times a quarter.
Hamill, Still love his dash. Seems to be getting his aggressive run first side of his game back too. Feel like he's got a big game coming soon!
Dawson, back to back BOG's for our team. Just wish we had 3 of him!
Strachan, had his colours lowered by Big O, but still showed a few taps to advantage that distinguish him from ROB. Shouldn't be dropped on that game.
Thought FOG's game was fascinating TBH, quite clearly had a KPI to contest everything at all costs. Which to his credit I think could only be judged as a success. However he looked a lost in his offensive side because of it. So he obviously hasn't found the balance yet. I'd be willing to see him get a block to see if can marry those sides of his game.
Soligo's footy brain is probably his best weapon. Kid makes smart snap decisions well beyond his years. Plus looks to be a tidy kick, and ferocious tackler. Can see why Nicks took an immediate shining to him. Again time for his block of games and see if he can turn that into more output.
Hately, coming of age game, was the shining light, loved it. Amazing what happens when you play big bodied inside midfielders in the midfield!
Chayce is really making a case for an increased role. Strung a strong month+ together when plenty around him have been poor. For me its now imperative for the coaching staff to find new ways to get his wrecking ball runs into the game. Boost his influence from 2-4 times / quarter to 5-8 times a quarter.
Hamill, Still love his dash. Seems to be getting his aggressive run first side of his game back too. Feel like he's got a big game coming soon!
Dawson, back to back BOG's for our team. Just wish we had 3 of him!
Strachan, had his colours lowered by Big O, but still showed a few taps to advantage that distinguish him from ROB. Shouldn't be dropped on that game.
- Dec 29, 2000
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Luke Brown is a real concern. He use to be able to shut down players and that was his dna but that has now deserted him.
SugarShane
C12 H22 O11
Definitely need to be looking into his replacement. Doesn't really have many strings to his bow other than the shutdown role and like you said, he's not really achieving that.
- Aug 9, 2019
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Maybe check Richard Taylor's recruiting background at Richmond (Steve McCrystal's replacement).
- Dec 29, 2000
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It is generally in the 7-8 range. Logic dictates that you only have 6-8 midfielders in a side (unless you decide to have midfielders playing on the flanks).
Checked all those teams with strong midfields and all had in that range.
The positive is we did well with centre clearances which we have been crushed previously. We just ****ed up in other places.
Lets not forget that from the 21:57 minute mark on the first quarter to the 26:30 minute mark of the second quarter, Brisbane didn’t score at all, repeat, Brisbane didn’t score at all. How many times have we kept a side scoreless for over a quarter?
- Aug 9, 2019
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And Darcy Fort.
- Aug 30, 2021
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And yet there is one key position that hasn't changed and that is crucial to get right and there have been some costly misses.
Can you take a guess who I am talking about?
- Jul 22, 2016
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Many people on these boards regularly seem to attach a players worth to their draft pick. Do you honestly think someone like Fogarty would have had anyone backing him in and defended him for years if his pick were in the 40's? Nope, most would be calling for an immediate delisting. Meanwhile someone like Keays who got picked up as a delisted player & people will call for his head because of some weaknesses in his game despite generally a very high output & 2 way running. The perception difference between a player picked up near the top vs someone coming lower or from an obscure route is very different to many here.
I don't much care where a player is drafted or how they got to the club, if the output is there & they are a player they are a player.
Of course from a club perspective nailing top draft prospects should be easier & enhance your ability to get an elite or superstar standard, I'm not disputing that just merely saying that many here will give infinite chances to someone who was drafted high despite them showing they aren't up to it & for what? Because they had a high number on draft night?
- Jul 22, 2016
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The other big issue is his ball use has become so slow, most of us were hoping that issue would cease with Kelly gone but Brown has taken over the mantle.
To an extent you're right, but I think clubs' approach to the draft are often simplistic. There are two modes of currency to build the list you want - current players and draft picks. There's an obsession with draft pick value, insofar as we rate a player based on his pick, or the success of a player based on the pick used.
The same goes for the "best available" mantra. It's ridiculous. It's like going into a shop needing a fridge and coming out with a washing machine, because the washing machine was priced higher than the fridge and therefore deemed more desirable. I go home with a shiny washing machine, and now I have two washing machines that I try to fit in my laundry, while storing my food in the esky. Or, I do what Adelaide do, and stick ice in my new washing machine and try to repurpose it as a fridge.
The clubs drafting in the last few years has resembled someone going into a shop knowing they have money to spend, but not quite sure how to spend it. So they make judgements based on price (perceived value) rather than need. It's why we have 4000 half back flankers and undersized midfielders instead of some gilt edged mids.
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M E T A: many people on these boards regularly seem to attach a posters perception of a players worth to their draft pick.
I personally back in Fog to the level I do (not that much rly) because his best has been very, very good eg. those 2018 highlights. Same as berg - if he didn’t have that game against Port I think he’d already be gone. Unfortunately very often, a player’s best can be a huge tease and never consistently realised. If they never showed promise and were still backed in - sure, then it’s draft pick infatuation.
I said should!
- Oct 16, 2015
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Our clearance work was terrible. We just let lions mids free at the contest time and time again, and we're talking about guys like Neale and Zorko with no pressure at all on them. These two below resulted in Zorko getting free and goals.
- Aug 30, 2021
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On this point, its because we know what the player cost and we need the player to come off. As you pointed out it enhances your ability to find a quality player and you're hoping in time that player becomes the player the recruiters thought was worth spending a valuable pick on. I am not saying I agree with it, but thats my explanation.
Personally I had liked Fogarty's early signs but he's stagnated and gone backwards.
Someone like McAsey I don't hold any hope for and I would trade him if we could get a second rounder for him but I doubt we'd even get that. So we are stuck until we eventually trade him for peanuts or delist him.
Good:
Geez they fought hard
Nick Murray should stay in the side, just a really good killer of the ball
Ned McHenry is starting to come good
Hately, thank goodness, once he realises he is a massive MF he can start knocking blokes over. Back it up!
Brisbane has the weapons to stop Melbourne, really clever and skilled side
We are a really inexperienced side which is holding up well
Bad:
The severe lack of skill and polish is brutal sometimes
Really poor goalkicking, not game changing but would have broken up that run of 7-8 Brisbane goals.
Ugly:
Saints playing good footy then Geelong at Noise of affirmation stadium, would be nice to win 1
Geez they fought hard
Nick Murray should stay in the side, just a really good killer of the ball
Ned McHenry is starting to come good
Hately, thank goodness, once he realises he is a massive MF he can start knocking blokes over. Back it up!
Brisbane has the weapons to stop Melbourne, really clever and skilled side
We are a really inexperienced side which is holding up well
Bad:
The severe lack of skill and polish is brutal sometimes
Really poor goalkicking, not game changing but would have broken up that run of 7-8 Brisbane goals.
Ugly:
Saints playing good footy then Geelong at Noise of affirmation stadium, would be nice to win 1
- May 14, 2017
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2) The Club Admin. and playing group are vastly different now from 2019, as moogerfooger points out, below.
1) At the time they appointed Nicks, I wondered why they went for a rookie Coach for a rebuild. He's an Adelaide boy, but was a PA assistant 2011-17 inclusive, mostly under Hinkley.
I thought he was remarkably upbeat through the difficulties of 2020, saddled as he was with the detritus from Adelaide's failures --- ie the Assistant Coaches and an unhappy, divided playing group --- and hindered by a dysfunctional administration. I was OK with the 7 wins from last year, loved the 3 wins from this year, but the last 3 games trouble me deeply. The midfield changes seem to have come from necessity (Sloane injury, Crouch ineptitude) rather than from the Coach's vision or long-term plan.
Nicks now has the Assistants he wants with experience from successful Clubs. One could say the "rebuild" started in 2021. If they take around 5 years as most suggest, we should be looking at Top 8 next year and real contenders in 2025, but I look at the lazy-running, unaccountable footy from most of the last 3 games (Saturday's second quarter a dazzling exception) and I wonder where it's going to come from.
I watched Nicks' presser after the Brisbane loss, twice. He was cheerful, if anything, maybe buoyed by that second quarter? F'ed if I k. He has said previously that he hates losing, but I saw none of that.
Kept talking about Brisbane and what good teams do, which the Crows didn't do after half time. He blamed the playing group for responding too slowly to Brisbane's resurgence in the third, but imo that's on HIM. The warning signs were all there at the end of the second. Half-time was the time to change things up unexpectedly, to unbalance and surprise Brisbane going into the third with a plan to seize back momentum, which is what I expect from a Coach with flair/imagination.
Look at the Flag-winning Coaches of the last 20 years, all of whom stamped their particular character and authority on their Teams. Will Nicks be one of them, 2022-2024/5? I can't see it. I want to, but I can't.
That's a really good reply, but recruiting priorities have to change, too. There are too many scrawny boys on our list.
- May 14, 2017
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Mostly, they do not want to admit that they might have chosen better.
- Oct 16, 2015
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Who are the best 5 clubs at recruiting we should go after? Easy to say we need new recruiters, but let's look at who the alternatives are.
The alternative view is do you do nothing about your head recruiter wasting numerous first round picks over the last ten years. Most other successful clubs would have moved him on. The state of the list is not all on him, there's numerous mistakes made by list management of moving on players we could have used right now such as Alex Keath. Now we have to trade in a player to help out Butts.
- Aug 9, 2019
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We've just brought in a highly regarded
recruiter Richard Taylor in February who played a big Richmond's build towards their Premierships.
We also had Neil Balme almost set to join us until his recent serious health scare.
- Jun 21, 2014
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If we've got Sgt. Bilko as CEO, we are in deep trouble!
- Aug 9, 2019
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Could have sworn I typed Tim SilversIf we've got Sgt. Bilko as CEO, we are in deep trouble!
- Oct 16, 2015
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Offering a 28yo 2nd or 3rd Defender a 4 year deal on close to $750k as rumoured during that stage of the rebuild would have been negligent list management IMO when you had Butts, Talia, McAsey and Doedee lined up for those positions. The kids needed time, so moving him and Hartigan were the right moves. I mean we could have kept Jacobs, Jenkins and Douglas too and our team should have been better.
I'm all for the club making changes if the change is for the better. If we tell Hamish he's sacked, then end up bringing in Brett Burton as his replacement, you're wasting even more collateral.
