Review Negatives vs North Melbourne

[StCicatriz]

We need a player who can get the ball in the packs and distribute it. Sheed is not that player, Kelly is not that player, Redden is not that player, Shuey is not that player, Gaff is not that player. Yeo is a bull but is just regaining fitness and form. Need a player ready to go, not a 19 year old, and the fact he is free trade-wise is attractive.

spot on. its a smart free agency move that then allows you to rebuild through the draft at the same time. no 18 or 19 year old kid is going to come in and start impacting on your contested footy and clearances. unless you find a rowell, which lets be honest is very unlikely.

 

[West Coast 06]

Don't know why Darling should be dropped. He works his arse off and has been our best forward until the last few weeks and even then has been OK but not as dominant. He does look a lot slower and maybe just needs to back off a bit with the training load. It's the same as people having a go at Redden. People just don't seem to see the workrate and value of Darling and also Redden because they are not always flashy but they bring other players into the game.

Probably because he is a key forward and has kicked 2 goals in 5 weeks? I go to the games, he used to work his arse off. Used to tackle and apply pressure. Not seen any of that lately. As soon as the ball hits the deck in our forward line we are out of the contest.

 

[Obeanie1]

Im more of thinking the more losses like this we have the better.

Force change. Somewhere, somehow.

If we scraped over the line it covers the mess we're in.

Been playing meh for a few years now.

2018 the exception out of the box season

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Exactly how I felt during and post game.

Do not want some solid wins over bottom sides to hide the problems we have.

 

[Obeanie1]

come in peace, i don't think the loss is as bad as some will make out. there's still key pillars of a great side here, you just need more help around them.

i think the big one you are missing is an inside bull. kelly is great but he's not a bull and never will be. shuey has dash. gaff is great as an endurance running mid. redden probably was this guy but he's out and Yeo is great in there but is used where the problems are. he can't be everywhere at once. i'd make him captain TBH!

so here's why i am posting. i think Luke Dunstan's emergence could be a cheapish replacement for redden and give you a servicable soldier on the inside who can also do a shut down role. means you can be less reliant on Yeo, free him up a little, playing a more attacking role at the stoppage, whilst luke nullify's the oppos best inside mid.

he's a UFA so it means you don't blow a pick on him. allowing you to hit the draft to start to rebuild some of the midfield and flanks. he'll also come pretty cheap salary wise so he wouldn't break the bank.

A ready to go 26 year old role player who's stregnth is digging in and getting the ball out to better kicking players. Plus who tackles and pressure acts are close to elite. UFA and would be gettable with a 3 yr deal on ok money.

Dustan will move IMO and for a nice little contract. Would be more than happy to get him.

 

[garlic munchers]

but if we win our remaining games we can win it from 8th

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Need Covid outbreak in Victoria, QLD and SA.

Comp moves to Perth from now to finals and hope to hell someone knocks the Dockers out.

Sorted.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

For all the comments on NN not going with Goldy, how often do you see Nic on the defensive goal line to mark/spoil? It's not his role. He stays outside of that area so if we turn it over or they score a point we have a marking/bring the ball to ground target up the field.

I feel like it's been this way for some time now. The earlier post highlighted our good representation in the area, they were just poorly positioned and didn't communicate.

It actually is his role, our coaching staff have allowed him a free pass to not do those things. the Offset is he does things other ruckman don't do.

 

[garlic munchers]

For all the comments on NN not going with Goldy, how often do you see Nic on the defensive goal line to mark/spoil? It's not his role. He stays outside of that area so if we turn it over or they score a point we have a marking/bring the ball to ground target up the field.

I feel like it's been this way for some time now. The earlier post highlighted our good representation in the area, they were just poorly positioned and didn't communicate.

Agree, seems as if this is where NN is told to be.

But if true, that would be in itself damning on the coaching as he rarely successfully positions himself to be the outlet from our backline.

More worrying, is to simply to save his legs as they know he simply can't go back with the oppo ruckman?

 

[DanWCE]

Agree, seems as if this is where NN is told to be.

But if true, that would be in itself damning on the coaching as he rarely successfully positions himself to be the outlet from our backline.

More worrying, is to simply to save his legs as they know he simply can't go back with the oppo ruckman?

Seems to be a structural thing, so Nic is complying with coaches instructions. Agree that it is probably driven by a couple of things, not least of which is saving his total km ran and removing him from some impactful jumping scenarios with lots of bodies.

He is not a great outlet target, but we kick in his direction a fair bit. There's always a WCE key tall with him though. Nic doesn't get outmarked, so I'm fine with that part of it, but the part I don't like is we probably need to work harder to isolate a target who will mark the ball more often than not. If Nic can bring the ball to ground that only plays into our weakness and generates more inside 50 opportunities for the oppo.

If we're tactically forgoing the mark at a kick in to try and generate a stoppage clearance then we need more representation at the ball drop. We've struggled with that for years.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Unpopular opinion i'm guessing, but for me our big problem is our forward line, their is zero pressure from any of them when the ball hits the deck. Teams set up the majority of their attacks from the backline knowing their will be no pressure. You have to wonder if that is why the blokes further up the field pause knowing if they kick it a contest and we don't mark it it is coming straight back out which it usually does these days with ease.

Petch so over rated on this board, one thing he has is speed, i cannot remember the last time i saw him rundown an opponent from behind, he is the most bruise free footballer i have seen. Loves nothing better than standing out in space waiting for the cheapie.

Ryan he is in the same boat, and epitomises the down hill skier tag we have, yep he had a great year last year, and that was in part due to shorter quarters which meant he did not have to go as hard for longer, plus blokes out meant he had to step up, he is just plain lazy at times, and would rather do the fancy than the hard work.

Cripps used to be a pressure footballer, but time has caught up with him, time to go.

Langdon is just an honest trier, nothing more nothing less, not quick, not a long kick, not great with his hands and certainly not a pressure footballer.

Oscar is wasted being third banana, we need to find a way to make him being the focus of this forward line, kid has a great footy brain and a can take a great mark, but does not get that chance with the 3rd forward.

JK- Legend of the club, but by him playing on is he holding Oscar back, not his fault anymore, but the one thing that made him a step above the other key forwards of his era was his tackling and chasing, the poor bloke just can get his body to do it any more, i want to him to stay but in some ways i think he should also move on.

JD- Cops some heat for some of his efforts, which can be fair at times, but how many times does he provide a contest and crash a pack, i watched him in the Sydney game live and he did it all day, and yes chasing used to be a feature with him as well, getting beat up in a marking contest may have something to do with that.

Out of curiosity how do you reckon our forwards would go with the Bulldogs Midfield and ball movement plan?
It is our Game plan and our midfield that is the clubs problem. You can replace all our starting 6 forwards with the greatest forwards the game has seen and you will see no change while we play this game plan.

JK and JD lead to the same place, JD does dot seem to be able to get a meter away from his opponent lately. Ryan fly's over the top of them, none of them are ever hit on the tit with a nice lead. This is how they are coached because no group would naturally lead to same spots and not split up the defence unless they are instructed to.
Petch doesn't have a clue how to crumb the ball. He is neither here nor there as part of the clubs future and will have zero impact on our future even if retained.
Agree re Langdon
Cripps is just part of a terrible forward set up. Like JD and JK has much to offer still with a decent plan.
Oscar is what he is because he is the third, remove JK and keep game plan and we see nothing different. Just another forward playing a shit plan.

Quite simply we need to split the opponents defense, that means JK and Jd starting and setting up a good 40m apart and never running to the same areas. Until you can do this and split the defenders you will never have good forward movement.

 

[Bender_]

I find it interesting how much disdain Petrucelle attracts. One of our most improved players - behind a few like Rotham, Brander and perhaps HEdwards and plays possibly the most unrewarding position on the ground. Really feels like people just dislike him because he's late to football.

 

[javaguice]

A ready to go 26 year old role player who's stregnth is digging in and getting the ball out to better kicking players. Plus who tackles and pressure acts are close to elite. UFA and would be gettable with a 3 yr deal on ok money.

Dustan will move IMO and for a nice little contract. Would be more than happy to get him.

Chopped us up for a NAB star nom didn't he?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I find it interesting how much disdain Petrucelle attracts. One of our most improved players - behind a few like Rotham, Brander and perhaps HEdwards and plays possibly the most unrewarding position on the ground. Really feels like people just dislike him because he's late to football.

Ok then lets work the other way, he is in his 4th season. played 41 games. How many more games before the excuses stop? Lets say it's 9 which gets him to 50 games.
Where do you think he can get to? At what level do you believe we are talking about here? Taking into account he cannot play anywhere else because if he could he would of been tried there by now.
Most good small forwards are failed midfielders, Petch is not that. Genuinely interested in where you think he can get to knowing that after 4 years he should be at his best by now.

 

[Bender_]

Ok then lets work the other way, he is in his 4th season. played 41 games. How many more games before the excuses stop? Lets say it's 9 which gets him to 50 games.
Where do you think he can get to? At what level do you believe we are talking about here? Taking into account he cannot play anywhere else because if he could he would of been tried there by now.
Most good small forwards are failed midfielders, Petch is not that. Genuinely interested in where you think he can get to knowing that after 4 years he should be at his best by now.

4 years? A hamstring tear off the bone and no seconds team? So that's minus one year.

Drafted as a project player and so lets say he's in his 3rd year now, so 2.5 years of AFL footy. In the majority of his games so far this year he's been at minimum serviceable whilst others around him have barely fired a shot.

I see the potential there and I concur he has a lot to work on but you (and others) want to delist him, remove him from the Eagles records and salt the Earth like he took a shit on your front doorstep. It's an odd grudge.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

4 years? A hamstring tear off the bone and no seconds team? So that's minus one year.

Drafted as a project player and so lets say he's in his 3rd year now, so 2.5 years of AFL footy. In the majority of his games so far this year he's been at minimum serviceable whilst others around him have barely fired a shot.

I see the potential there and I concur he has a lot to work on but you (and others) want to delist him, remove him from the Eagles records and salt the Earth like he took a sh*t on your front doorstep. It's an odd grudge.

Nope, Just don't think he is a very good footballer. That's ok isn't it? I also don't need 40 odd games to make an opinion. I generally can form an opinion after 5-10 games. It is pretty obvious most of the time who can play and who struggle with it.

 

[Magnum27]

Out of curiosity how do you reckon our forwards would go with the Bulldogs Midfield and ball movement plan?
It is our Game plan and our midfield that is the clubs problem. You can replace all our starting 6 forwards with the greatest forwards the game has seen and you will see no change while we play this game plan.

JK and JD lead to the same place, JD does dot seem to be able to get a meter away from his opponent lately. Ryan fly's over the top of them, none of them are ever hit on the tit with a nice lead. This is how they are coached because no group would naturally lead to same spots and not split up the defence unless they are instructed to.
Petch doesn't have a clue how to crumb the ball. He is neither here nor there as part of the clubs future and will have zero impact on our future even if retained.
Agree re Langdon
Cripps is just part of a terrible forward set up. Like JD and JK has much to offer still with a decent plan.
Oscar is what he is because he is the third, remove JK and keep game plan and we see nothing different. Just another forward playing a sh*t plan.

Quite simply we need to split the opponents defense, that means JK and Jd starting and setting up a good 40m apart and never running to the same areas. Until you can do this and split the defenders you will never have good forward movement.

Most of what you say is correct, however where is the pressure when it hits the deck, they are not going to take every mark when it comes in, JK was elite at pressure like no other forward i have seen for his size for pressure, we have zero pressure when the ball hits the deck, as bad as the ball use may be, it should not stop you from putting pressure on, bloody hard for our defenders when it comes down so easy.

 

[Magnum27]

Nope, Just don't think he is a very good footballer. That's ok isn't it? I also don't need 40 odd games to make an opinion. I generally can form an opinion after 5-10 games. It is pretty obvious most of the time who can play and who struggle with it.

He isn't a footballer, he is an athlete they have tried to turn into a footballer.

 

[bzparkes]

Ok then lets work the other way, he is in his 4th season. played 41 games. How many more games before the excuses stop? Lets say it's 9 which gets him to 50 games.
Where do you think he can get to? At what level do you believe we are talking about here? Taking into account he cannot play anywhere else because if he could he would of been tried there by now.
Most good small forwards are failed midfielders, Petch is not that. Genuinely interested in where you think he can get to knowing that after 4 years he should be at his best by now.

Well in case you forgot, last year was a total write off.

Yet some people still talk about Cameron being the great white hope...

He's improved. he play the shittiest position to play on the ground, as a number of players have mentioned who've played that role, and his best is extremely good.

If our rubbish midfield got the ball forward a bit more, with time and space, he'd do very well.

As it is, our ball movement utterly stinks so he's not being utilised as he should.

That Port game where he kicked 5 in the we is how he should be used more often.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Most of what you say is correct, however where is the pressure when it hits the deck, they are not going to take every mark when it comes in, JK was elite at pressure like no other forward i have seen for his size for pressure, we have zero pressure when the ball hits the deck, as bad as the ball use may be, it should not stop you from putting pressure on, bloody hard for our defenders when it comes down so easy.

Correct there is no pressure but lets face it that job is more on Ryan, Cripps, Petch, and Langdon. Forward line pressure is rarely if ever build around the two tall targets being the pressure acts on ground. Bot JK and JD still put in trying to put pressure on but because Ryan, Cripps, and Petch are non existent it looks worse than it should.
It is our small forwards that the issue lies, certainly not JK.

 

[kane249]

Don't know why Darling should be dropped. He works his arse off and has been our best forward until the last few weeks and even then has been OK but not as dominant. He does look a lot slower and maybe just needs to back off a bit with the training load. It's the same as people having a go at Redden. People just don't seem to see the workrate and value of Darling and also Redden because they are not always flashy but they bring other players into the game.

Because his form has dropped off big time since the start of the year



Take out that burst of 5 goals in a quarter vs the Crows and he's looking at 4 goals in his past 31 quarters played, that is woeful

 

[Bender_]

Nope, Just don't think he is a very good footballer. That's ok isn't it? I also don't need 40 odd games to make an opinion. I generally can form an opinion after 5-10 games. It is pretty obvious most of the time who can play and who struggle with it.

It's perfectly fine to have your opinion, but you're dreaming if you think it doesn't come across as something personal the way you refer to him.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's perfectly fine to have your opinion, but you're dreaming if you think it doesn't come across as something personal the way you refer to him.

Can't be personal as I don't even know the guy, just don't think he can play. If I was coaching a WAFL club I would not be chasing him for my list.
I will happily put my hand up and say I got that wrong if he turns out to be the very good small forward some of you believe he will be.

 

[The wily weagle]

This would be enough to make the statement Simpson needs:

In: H.Edwards, L.Edwards

Out: McGovern (omitted), Kelly (omitted)

Take your two high profile, underperforming names, one of which is one of the highest paid players in the league and the other you sold the farm for to get him home, and give them a spell in the WAFL for a week.

It would be message received loud and clear.

 

[ziad]

What is clear, and has been for some years, we don't have good onfield leadership and have not since Cuz.

 

[squashface]

What is clear, and has been for some years, we don't have good onfield leadership and have not since Cuz.

Please. This line will always get trotted out when we aren't playing well but I'm pretty sure everyone was swooning over Hurn's captaincy when we won a flag.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

What is clear, and has been for some years, we don't have good onfield leadership and have not since Cuz.

I agree, I did like Hurn as a leader and I think he thrived on it. He played some of his bets footy as the leader and he led from the front. Since he handed it in his footy has declined and of course our on field leadership has.