Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2024, Part I

[Mad_Hatter]

This is becoming almost an annual event.

Who decides the league is poor exactly? You?

Historical statistics that compare each team against each other, and to other teams in recent seasons.
By that model, this year was by far the weakest season most of us have ever seen, same model had the Pies the 4th best team and flag sits very comfortably multiple levels below the next weakest, 2005.
Of course it's irrelevant, a flag is a flag is a flag.

 

[winty]

Anyone else sick of that Telstra ad where the country team is going to the grand final, but their bus breaks down, so the pub owner gets in a bunch of ring-ins to take their place?

Why didn't she just drive past the broken down bus and drive the team to the ground herself?

 

[Shell]

I'm sick of KISS songs being in my head

 

[Turbocat]

Umm, there's actually been a fair bit of discussion around this exact topic over this past week and from those who aren't just fans of the competing teams

The discussion has been around the idea that yes there's the 23 guys who play in the grand final, but there's a greater squad of players who help the team get to their stage and their contribution over the preceding 23/24/25 matches isn't any less important than those who play in the grand final

They've also linked in the discussion to what happens in other sports around the globe, and how it's often the case that it's more than just the players in that final game who receive the same acknowledgment when winning the title

So are these people saying a player like Jacob Ryan..,. who played his one and only game in R23 ... should get a medal?

Considering concussion ..maybe we eventually get to the point that in finals is just squad versus squad ... you can have all 40 something players playing... but with a continuing limit on interchange ... most of them woudl probably not se game time. James Jordon was the 23 rd man for melb in 2021... did not get any game time... probably is one of the reasosn he is moving this year.

 

[fpm84]

I'm sick of KISS songs being in my head

This will cheer you up

 

[BotsMaster]

 

[And_ROOS]

So are these people saying a player like Jacob Ryan..,. who played his one and only game in R23 ... should get a medal?

Considering concussion ..maybe we eventually get to the point that in finals is just squad versus squad ... you can have all 40 something players playing... but with a continuing limit on interchange ... most of them woudl probably not se game time. James Jordon was the 23 rd man for melb in 2021... did not get any game time... probably is one of the reasosn he is moving this year.

Honestly if you played at least 50% of the games in the season, you should get a Premiership medal because that is significantly contributing to a squads success. Anything less and you don't get one.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Collingwood are the most successful AFL/VFL team in history! 16 cups from 43 grand final years… add 2 more GF’s for drawn games…
43 grand finals in 127 odd years …better than one grand final in 3 years…. That’s impressive!

A Grand Final appearance just under every 3 years - i didnt know that - like 1 in every 3 years - and working out a mean average - with over 125 years etc - so it stacks up statistically pretty good

The thing is with most supporters - or alot of them from every club - if you lose a game your hopeless - and if you lose a GF - your a choker - your this and that - you just get thrown under the back wheels of the bus with all the other losers

Like in 2020 - Rich were the best team and Premiers - but i gave the Cats a pass mark for making the GF - and giving the Tigers a fright in the 1st half

So if you look at from 1960 onwards

1964 - they lost to Melb by less than a goal - and were in front with less than a minute to play - however if you analyse it a bit closer - Melb beat Coll by about 14 goals in the 2nd semi - if there was betting on that GF - The Dees would have been $1.10 and Magpies about $6 - so they got beaten in the final seconds - thats 1 of their 43 losses - would have been a famous win - you cant be critical of their performance in that GF

1966 - I thought Stk and Coll were equally the 2 best teams that year . The Saints were very strong right throughout the 60s - up until about 72 actually . Saints played off in the 65 GF - so they were hunting a flag . Coll did beat them in the 2nd semi - Tuddy kicked 7 goals i can remember that. In the GF the Saints won their only flag by a point - whoever lost it would be a heart breaker - so in my opinion that GF was an absolute flip of the coin

1970 - I went to this one - so im qualified to give my opinion on this one - they were clearly the best team - and easily the best Coll side ive seen to this day . But bad kicking for goal leaves the door ajar - and i actually can remember thinking to myself at the time - midway through the 2nd qtr - i think big Jenkin had taken a mark right in front of us - this is a massacre - it was so 1 sided - Coll should have been 13-15 goals up at h/t - and the game is totally out of reach of Carlton . So 70 definitely slipped through the net - but wasteful kicking for goal in the 1st half was the killer

1977 - this 1 would sting also - about 4 goals up at 3 qtr time - they have got 1 big out/excuse - Carmen getting suspended - stupidly hitting Tuck - it would be like J Cameron getting suspended and missing the GF - I think it is fair comment to say - Carmen plays in that GF - THEY WIN

79/80/81 - they wernt the best team - especially 80 and 81 - Rich and Carl respectively were clearly the best team in those years . In 79 i can remember listening to Dyer on the radio in the aftermatch - and he absolutely hated Coll - however he gave them credit - he said you have to give Coll credit - they kept coming and coming in that last qtr - and he meant that - you could tell how he said it . 80 - was probably their worst performance in a GF - but did come up against a frightenly good Rich team - Magpies did us a big favour beating us in the PF - Malarkey was injured and out - and Rich had Cloke and Roach in the goalsquare - we would have got flogged in that GF - no question about it . 1981 Carlton were clearly the best team finished minor premier - won the 2nd Semi - went straight into the GF and won the flag

Early 2000 they lost 2 GFs to Lions 3 peat team - the one where they lost narrowly - and Malthouse has consistently said - that is the proudest hes been re a GF performance - because they had a pretty limited team - so that performance gets a big tick in my opinion . The other one where they were quite favoured to have a decent shot at it - it was probably their 2nd poorest effort behind the Rich one - from memory they beat Bris in the QF - so they were fancied - something might have happened to Anthony Rocca - so i cant remember

And the more recent GF - everyone has seen those

So with GFs - i think you have to look at them one by one - to get a fair analysis of it - who was the best side that year - and who ended up winning the Premiership

 

[cats_09]

So are these people saying a player like Jacob Ryan..,. who played his one and only game in R23 ... should get a medal?

Considering concussion ..maybe we eventually get to the point that in finals is just squad versus squad ... you can have all 40 something players playing... but with a continuing limit on interchange ... most of them woudl probably not se game time. James Jordon was the 23 rd man for melb in 2021... did not get any game time... probably is one of the reasosn he is moving this year.

Not exactly that situation, but more so for those who've playing a minimum number of games or percentage of the season

Looking in total there's 19 players who played a minimum of 20 games - of those 19 there's two who missed the GF, with Adams injured and Noble omitted from the finals series

Based on the discussion, it would be suggested that Adams & Noble played a significant role in Collingwood's season, and in the case of Adams he only missed yesterday due to injury - as such, their contribution should be recognised

Not sure it'd stretch as far as those who've played like 5 or 6 games during the season, unless they're playing on the day

 

[Vdubs]

A Grand Final appearance just under every 3 years - i didnt know that - like 1 in every 3 years - and working out a mean average - with over 125 years etc - so it stacks up statistically pretty good

The thing is with most supporters - or alot of them from every club - if you lose a game your hopeless - and if you lose a GF - your a choker - your this and that - you just get thrown under the back wheels of the bus with all the other losers

Like in 2020 - Rich were the best team and Premiers - but i gave the Cats a pass mark for making the GF - and giving the Tigers a fright in the 1st half

So if you look at from 1960 onwards

1964 - they lost to Melb by less than a goal - and were in front with less than a minute to play - however if you analyse it a bit closer - Melb beat Coll by about 14 goals in the 2nd semi - if there was betting on that GF - The Dees would have been $1.10 and Magpies about $6 - so they got beaten in the final seconds - thats 1 of their 43 losses - would have been a famous win - you cant be critical of their performance in that GF

1966 - I thought Stk and Coll were equally the 2 best teams that year . The Saints were very strong right throughout the 60s - up until about 72 actually . Saints played off in the 65 GF - so they were hunting a flag . Coll did beat them in the 2nd semi - Tuddy kicked 7 goals i can remember that. In the GF the Saints won their only flag by a point - whoever lost it would be a heart breaker - so in my opinion that GF was an absolute flip of the coin

1970 - I went to this one - so im qualified to give my opinion on this one - they were clearly the best team - and easily the best Coll side ive seen to this day . But bad kicking for goal leaves the door ajar - and i actually can remember thinking to myself at the time - midway through the 2nd qtr - i think big Jenkin had taken a mark right in front of us - this is a massacre - it was so 1 sided - Coll should have been 13-15 goals up at h/t - and the game is totally out of reach of Carlton . So 70 definitely slipped through the net - but wasteful kicking for goal in the 1st half was the killer

1977 - this 1 would sting also - about 4 goals up at 3 qtr time - they have got 1 big out/excuse - Carmen getting suspended - stupidly hitting Tuck - it would be like J Cameron getting suspended and missing the GF - I think it is fair comment to say - Carmen plays in that GF - THEY WIN

79/80/81 - they wernt the best team - especially 80 and 81 - Rich and Carl respectively were clearly the best team in those years . In 79 i can remember listening to Dyer on the radio in the aftermatch - and he absolutely hated Coll - however he gave them credit - he said you have to give Coll credit - they kept coming and coming in that last qtr - and he meant that - you could tell how he said it . 80 - was probably their worst performance in a GF - but did come up against a frightenly good Rich team - Magpies did us a big favour beating us in the PF - Malarkey was injured and out - and Rich had Cloke and Roach in the goalsquare - we would have got flogged in that GF - no question about it . 1981 Carlton were clearly the best team finished minor premier - won the 2nd Semi - went straight into the GF and won the flag

Early 2000 they lost 2 GFs to Lions 3 peat team - the one where they lost narrowly - and Malthouse has consistently said - that is the proudest hes been re a GF performance - because they had a pretty limited team - so that performance gets a big tick in my opinion . The other one where they were quite favoured to have a decent shot at it - it was probably their 2nd poorest effort behind the Rich one - from memory they beat Bris in the QF - so they were fancied - something might have happened to Anthony Rocca - so i cant remember

And the more recent GF - everyone has seen those

So with GFs - i think you have to look at them one by one - to get a fair analysis of it - who was the best side that year - and who ended up winning the Premiership

Great and accurate summary.

It looks eerily similar to our GF history, most times not being the best team in all those losses. But I felt that the Pies were easily the best team in 1970, and as you said, should have been in 77.

I did feel for Pies supporters through those losses, and at least they have also amassed 16 flags

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Not a great weekend for Queensland. First, the Lions lost, and now the Broncos lost the NRL GF.

 

[fpm84]

Not a great weekend for Queensland. First, the Lions lost, and now the Broncos lost the NRL GF.

Two of the best GFs of all time, too.

 

[Vdubs]

Two of the best GFs of all time, too.

That was a sensational GF. Panthers looked gone for all money, but proved they are an awesome outfit. Broncos were stunning in defeat.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Vdubs what penrith did there is pretty much what i was talking about..its what great teams do and what hawks 13-15 geelong 07-09 plus the recent richmond era were capable of. Collingwood are a decent team and all credit to them but they are not on that level and no current afl team is..collingwood are fortunate that they are good while the comp is relatively weak.

 

[Frappe]

Broncos will be kicking themselves. Up 24-8 with about 24 min to go. I think still 2 plays left on a set inside 20m. Player decides to offload and ball turned over to Penrith. The rest is history.

 

[BotsMaster]

It's a good graph. It marries up with the eye test on strong v weak premiers save for Melbourne which we can explain away as a COVID anomaly. Everyone Sydney 2012 and below gets a meh.

The Pies finishing position on that scale is even below a lot of runner ups from previous seasons.

 

[Vdubs]

Vdubs what penrith did there is pretty much what i was talking about..its what great teams do and what hawks 13-15 geelong 07-09 plus the recent richmond era were capable of. Collingwood are a decent team and all credit to them but they are not on that level and no current afl team is..collingwood are fortunate that they are good while the comp is relatively weak.

Time will tell.
Let's come back in 12 months and see if this Pies team can contend and win again.
They were brilliant in 22 coming from nowhere, and pushed us.
This year, their start to the season was domination over most teams, and they did drop off, but to win it was justification.
If you keep thinking the comp is that weak, where does that leave us finishing 12th?
It's an opinion that not only you have, but I don't see it that way.
Even back when WCE pinched a flag v Pies 5 years ago, it was said the comp was weak.
And I recall your opinion of that Tigers team was not great in 17, but by their third flag, you may have conceded.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Sad indictment on AFL commentating if he's what we have to endure each year. Absolutely embarrassing.

You get the outcome you invest in and the afl doesn't care enough about their product

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Damien Barret couldnt get into the Grand Final

IF there's a bigger disgrace in football than Damo missing the granny

THEN at least it will give Damo something to full out a listicle with

 

[Frappe]

IF there's a bigger disgrace in football than Damo missing the granny

THEN at least it will give Damo something to full out a listicle with

He managed to talk his way i.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Broncos will be kicking themselves. Up 24-8 with about 24 min to go. I think still 2 plays left on a set inside 20m. Player decides to offload and ball turned over to Penrith. The rest is history.

Running the ball on the last when they were 16 up in the 20m zone at the 60m mark. Just needed to get a repeat set and stay down there and penrith may have run out of time to start the comeback.

 

[Scottland2007]

I'm sick of KISS songs being in my head

You’ve got “nothing to lose” having a kiss song stuck in your head. But the solution is to have a “cold gin” as you “rock n roll all night”

 

[cats_09]

 

[Shell]

Wow

 

[Shell]

You’ve got “nothing to lose” having a kiss song stuck in your head. But the solution is to have a “cold gin” as you “rock n roll all night”

I've still got them in my head.

Tina Turner-lite couldnt even do it.