Offseason Changes + Road to the 2021 Premiership

[ziad]

Not sure what the fix is but it feels like apart from the odd purple patch (most notably the 2018 finals run) our midfield has largely underperformed for a fair chunk of the last decade.

I think our mids are prettry average hard workers. Yoe is out, Shuey is unfit and Kelly gets huge attention being the only one left.

 

[Godfather32]

I think our mids are prettry average hard workers. Yoe is out, Shuey is unfit and Kelly gets huge attention being the only one left.

Underperformed might have been the wrong phrasing, weak link in the chain maybe? And to be clear I'm not including our rucks, just our midfielders.

 

[Bacchus]

The mids just feel one wood. You're right, Yeo is arguably our most important mid.

Our midfield shouldn't get beaten just because we are missing one player.

Simmo is very rigid, backs are backs, mids are mids, forwards are forwards.

I'd like to see Simmo implement more flex into our system. I'd like to see us play one less mid and have players like Duggan and Ryan rotating through the midfield. They are players who offer something different to our current midfield setup.

I don’t agree with this. What are Collingwood without Pendlebury, Richmond without Martin, Geelong without Dangerfield?
Much reduced is the clear answer. He is clearly our best mid and we are not nearly as good without him. He was an irreplaceable loss. Ainsworth for Yeo, and you don’t think we were considerably weaker, the answer is obvious.

 

[Godfather32]

I don’t agree with this. What are Collingwood without Pendlebury, Richmond without Martin, Geelong without Dangerfield?
Much reduced is the clear answer. He is clearly our best mid and we are not nearly as good without him. He was an irreplaceable loss. Ainsworth for Yeo, and you don’t think we were considerably weaker, the answer is obvious.

That speaks to our lack of midfield depth though doesn't? The fact that all we had to bring in was Ainsworth is an issue. It's an issue that's been brought up many times the last few years. Our young midfield depth is terrible and has been for years. Part of it's bad luck, part of it's poor drafting and part of its poor development. Whatever the reason its definitely an area we need to fix.

 

[swingdog]

1. Hire a rugby union coach to teach the players how to tackle properly; how to hold a tackle and to want to tackle.

Or league. This is such a noticeable difference when you see the Cameron brothers tackle (Charlie laid some beauties the other night as has Jarrod when he's been up and about for us), the tackles sticks. It's not about being a beast, neither of them are huge in the upper-body, it's about technique.

This is what we should be focusing on at pre-season. Everything else goes to crap when we can't stick tackles and the opposition bursts away. Get that right (like Brisbane did) and it doesn't matter about the other team's system, if they can't move with the ball.

p.s. worth pushing Cameron into midfield?

 

[woosha24]

Do you guys know how stupid these posts read?

Simmo is signed until 2022 and won't be going anywhere unless he chooses to.

So your saying if we get to the end of 2021, fail to make the 4 and finish with another finals series where we are bundled out early the admin arent gonna be asking questions? Its not a stupid post at all - we have consistently shown as a club that we dont tolerate failure. Simmo was given slack during the rebuild because thats what happens to coaches in a rebuild, and it paid off with a flag. We've now stagnated and he needs to show that he can rejig the list to chase the ultimate success again. If he cant do that by the end of 2022 then hard questions WILL be asked of him, because thats what we do.

Im not calling for the blokes head and he's shown that he is capable of redeveloping a gameplan between years, but if we persist with what has now failed twice and keep giving games to blokes like Petch and Ah Chee he will feel pressure from the board.

 

[FreeTK]

I don’t agree with this. What are Collingwood without Pendlebury, Richmond without Martin, Geelong without Dangerfield?
Much reduced is the clear answer. He is clearly our best mid and we are not nearly as good without him. He was an irreplaceable loss. Ainsworth for Yeo, and you don’t think we were considerably weaker, the answer is obvious.

Collingwood were missing Sidebottom last night.

Richmond have been missing Prestia and Edwards for most of the year.

We did it without Nic, Shep and Gaff in 2018, and the Tigers were missing Rance in 2019.

I agree, replacing Yeo with Ainsworth is absolutely terrible, but that is an indictment on our list depth.

If you want to win flags, you need to be able to stand up beyond your best 22 as a blessed injury run isn't particularly realistic.

 

[squashface]

Losing by a point to a team that showed up against Eagles who also played pretty well as well is considered embarrassing to you?? Gut wrenching is not a word you would use for this loss buddy. get a grip. Gut wrenching was loss against Hawks last year or Suns this year or Dogs this year. Not this one.

Embarrassing because we had almost a full strength side available on our home deck and lost to the 8th placed side that we thumped by 10 goals earlier in the year, not to mention how we let Mason ****ing Cox kick 3 goals in a few minutes. Gut wrenching because it went down to the final minute and we lost by a point.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

We just don't have enough "A grade" mids to cover the loss of Yeo and a rusty Shuey. We only have Shuey and Yeo in that category. Kelly is difficult to assess since he's so inconsistent.
Gaff is a part time inside mid, and Sheed & Redden, on their best are important cogs in the midfield, but all 3 are not game changing A grade inside mids.
The confusing thing about Kelly is that he's capable. Against St Kilda with only Gaff as the only other "experienced" inside mid, he had his best match by far.

 

[Bacchus]

That speaks to our lack of midfield depth though doesn't? The fact that all we had to bring in was Ainsworth is an issue. It's an issue that's been brought up many times the last few years. Our young midfield depth is terrible and has been for years. Part of it's bad luck, part of it's poor drafting and part of its poor development. Whatever the reason its definitely an area we need to fix.

Shocking drafting is a big part of it. Ainsworth, you’ve got to be kidding. Lacks basic skills, can’t get the ball, and now he’s built like a stick. Everyone laughs about P-P but he’s exactly what we need and possibly about to be a key player in a premiership team. He was right in front of us. Foley looked totally out of his depth, as did Brayshaw. O’Neill may make it. To be putting games into Ainsworth as next in line doesn’t augur well. I would get Anderson from NM if he was available. They have got some right, Ryan is a gem, OAllen is special although we nearly missed him, Zac Bailey from Brisbane would have been a lot better than Brander in hindsight.
This season can’t just be brushed off. There are serious lessons to be learnt. There is too much talent not producing results.
Shuey is one of my favourite players but I don’t think he had a great year as captain. Ironically tried too hard, which was shown in a passage last night on the wing where he lost the ball twice by not working together with a teammate, this led to a Collingwood goal.

 

[Agent93]

A tweak to the defensive plan allowing for Tom Barrass' fairly average performance as a one on one defender. Either upskill TB as a stopper, or come up with a zone defence or something. Or grow Shep by 10cm.

 

[Obeanie1]

We just don't have enough "A grade" mids to cover the loss of Yeo and a rusty Shuey. We only have Shuey and Yeo in that category. Kelly is difficult to assess since he's so inconsistent.
Gaff is a part time inside mid, and Sheed & Redden, on their best are important cogs in the midfield, but all 3 are not game changing A grade inside mids.
The confusing thing about Kelly is that he's capable. Against St Kilda with only Gaff as the only other "experienced" inside mid, he had his best match by far.

I actually think we have enough class but need more depth grunt mids that just get stuck in.

Like you said we replaced Yeo with Ainsworth, big downgrade. And then another mid had to then do Yeo's job.

I do like to give players time to develop but Id like to know what are the plans for Ainsworth. If its a tagger well he needs to get bigger. How many games do you invest in develop taggers? Normally they are tough mids who havent quite made the grade with deficencies but can play a role.

Is Ainsworth better than a Nick Roberston who at 25 is still young but at least can compete phyisically and has the stregnth to stick a tackle.

Seem to recall Luke English was rated as a tough mid when drafted, OOC at Richmond.

And also Ben Miller OOC. I was keen on Miller in his draft year, ex Kalgoorie lad who played ruck in the local league. Not quite 200cm but was described as being a hard player. Listed as a KP defender but rucked in the WA u18 side. A Vardy replacement?

 

[Bacchus]

Collingwood were missing Sidebottom last night.

Richmond have been missing Prestia and Edwards for most of the year.

We did it without Nic, Shep and Gaff in 2018, and the Tigers were missing Rance in 2019.

I agree, replacing Yeo with Ainsworth is absolutely terrible, but that is an indictment on our list depth.

If you want to win flags, you need to be able to stand up beyond your best 22 as a blessed injury run isn't particularly realistic.

Your examples are the second line players, not the key man, the leader.
I put the win in 2018 down to a brilliant assistant coach- Mitchell

 

[FreeTK]

Your examples are the second line players, not the key man, the leader.
I put the win in 2018 down to a brilliant assistant coach- Mitchell

Prestia was their B&F in a premiership year, just like Yeo.

If we are only ever one injury away from not being a contender, we were never a contender in the first place.

 

[Cuzz09]

Delist Rioli in front of the whole squad

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FreeTK]

I actually think we have enough class but need more depth grunt mids that just get stuck in.

Like you said we replaced Yeo with Ainsworth, big downgrade. And then another mid had to then do Yeo's job.

I do like to give players time to develop but Id like to know what are the plans for Ainsworth. If its a tagger well he needs to get bigger. How many games do you invest in develop taggers? Normally they are tough mids who havent quite made the grade with deficencies but can play a role.

Is Ainsworth better than a Nick Roberston who at 25 is still young but at least can compete phyisically and has the stregnth to stick a tackle.

Seem to recall Luke English was rated as a tough mid when drafted, OOC at Richmond.

And also Ben Miller OOC. I was keen on Miller in his draft year, ex Kalgoorie lad who played ruck in the local league. Not quite 200cm but was described as being a hard player. Listed as a KP defender but rucked in the WA u18 side. A Vardy replacement?

Miller is currently playing in scratch matches as a ruck. He is a required player at Richmond due to them losing Soldo and Coleman Jones being suspended for 10 games (minimum 5 next year).

 

[javaguice]

PLEASE change the mindset though....bathwater drinking is getting so old.

 

[KERRPOW]

Why is anyone suggesting trading Gov. ******* lol.

Knee jerk reaction to the loss i guess.

 

[Obeanie1]

Miller is currently playing in scratch matches as a ruck. He is a required player at Richmond due to them losing Soldo and Coleman Jones being suspended for 10 games (minimum 5 next year).

Thats great then, it means he's rated.

He is out of contract though and likely wont be commanding big $$ or a long term deal. Offer him 3 years and a few more $$$$ and see what happens. Worse case we help him get a better deal and the Tigers cough up more than they wanted.

 

[Cuzz09]

shake the joint up yeah. Dont be happy making finals and bundled out easily again.

PLEASE change the mindset though....bathwater drinking is getting so old.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[KERRPOW]

If you listen to Simmo's press conference he concedes that the over reliance on centre clearance has been an issue all year.

Hopefully that means changing a few things.

I honestly don't think our mids can all play together in the same midfield. It's slow and they get burnt on the spread, and when our blokes don't have ball in hand they are unable to curtail oppo mids.

Yep - way to reliant on nic but we have been like that for a while now.

Agree, the midfield as a collective is not dynamic enough, arnt defensively minded enough.

Its an inditement on the midfield when our 2 beat midfielders are also our 2 beat defensive mids.

This may be a left field idea, but build up petrucelle's tank and turn him into a winger.

Our starting midfield will be:
Ruc: nic, shuey, kelly
Centre: petch, redden, gaff

Interchange: sheed

And have 1 forward and 1 defender that has the ability to play midfield bursts.

The centre player has to be defensively minded to allow the ruck rovers to ball hunt

Cripps/ryan & cole/duggan/nelson have this ability.

 

[KERRPOW]

It feels like one of the issues is a lack of selection pressure. Honestly who in our team from last night is playing for their spot in the team? Answer is not many.

Yep, all the INs were walk up inclusions.

Its a bit worrying that theres minimal pressure for spots.

Lack of depth in the midfield and small forwards is scary.

I think defence is alright.

 

[omarlittle1]

Here's the thing:

The drive of this group has been under par since the 2018 flag.

The major problem with this team has always been between the ears. And until that gets sorted this group won't go all the way again.

As to how to sort out that issue, I have no idea. I'm not a sports/performance psychologist. But perhaps they should invest in a better one(s). Mindset is key.


Another major problem is our last 4 players picked are bad. Compare our last few players picked compared to Brisbane/Port/Richmond and you'll see a massive gulf.
Ainsworth/Petrucelle/Ah Chee/Reid/Brayshaw/Cole (last night at least, he's normally ok), doesn't leave much to be desired.

The midfield tactics need a massive overhaul. Our centre clearance work is brilliant (mostly due to Nic) but our around the ground stoppage work is awful. Dead last in the competition for ground ball gets, below average contested possessions, unbelievably poor tackling. All of these issues need to be the primary focus in the off season. From a layman's perspective it looks like a lack of desire/endeavour. How the **** does Levi Greenwood side step amd waltz around 3 players twice in 2 minutes?! Unbelievable, get Sheed, Gaff, Ainsworth in the god damn gym so they can actually take a player down. They certainly aren't alone there, the whole team needs to be so much harder and more focussed.

The ball comes out of our forward 50 far too easily. Obviously we've had our small forward stocks decimated this year, but still, it's far too easy for opposition defence's to bring the ball to ground and then just waltz it out. No where near good enough for a flag team.

Our defensive strategy has been worked out and needs addressing also. It's intrinsically linked to our lack of defensive pressure in the midfield but if you move the ball quickly into our defensive 50, Barrass and Gov aren't strong 1v1 defenders and you can exploit that easily. ****ing Mason Cox kicked 3 goals in 3 minutes due to this. He's probably the worst player on an AFL list.
Dixon destroyed us earlier in the year too.
Why Schofield was dropped for this game i'll never understand (though I believe he and Simpson had a pretty big rift this year, damn shame).

We are too predictable amd slow transitioning from defence. Losing Jetta this year really hurt us in that department (if the rumours are true about the first hub, I don't think he'll be with us next year). The Cole/Nelson/Duggan trio was a revelation towards the end of the first hub and during our golden run at Optus, but Nelson and Cole really fell off the cliff towards the back end of the season. Duggan, however was exceptional all year, great to see. What they aren't though, is particularly fast or creative in their disposal in transition from defence into attack in the way Jetta and Hurn were a couple of years ago. Hopefully this comes with more experience, but we need to find cleaner/more creative avenues to transion from our defensive 50 effectively.

So basically a lot to work on. Very much feels like 2016/17, where Simpson had found a revolutionary game plan a couple of years earlier (The Web of 2015) but it was worked out by the opposition faster than he could adjust, leaving us good but not great. Thankfully his revolutionary game plan of 2018 (kick/mark/switch) took us all the way, but he needs to adjust faster and better if we're to extract the maximum potential out of this list, which is ageing.

I believe we have what it takes to compete for another few years, but presently, we're an upper mid team relying on too few to carry us over the line, with an exploitable game plan that needs an overhaul and no first round draft picks to freshen us up. Will be an interesting off season.

 

[FreeTK]

Yep - way to reliant on nic but we have been like that for a while now.

Agree, the midfield as a collective is not dynamic enough, arnt defensively minded enough.

Its an inditement on the midfield when our 2 beat midfielders are also our 2 beat defensive mids.

This may be a left field idea, but build up petrucelle's tank and turn him into a winger.

Our starting midfield will be:
Ruc: nic, shuey, kelly
Centre: petch, redden, gaff

Interchange: sheed

And have 1 forward and 1 defender that has the ability to play midfield bursts.

The centre player has to be defensively minded to allow the ruck rovers to ball hunt

Cripps/ryan & cole/duggan/nelson have this ability.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I didn't want to say it out loud cos Petch isn't really in favour at the moment, and for good reason.

You missed Yeo in your setup. I think Yeo takes Reddens spot and Redden gets pushed out of the side.

Also, I'd like to see what MON can bring. His draft package shows exactly why we drafted him. he has speed and good marking. 2X U18 AA, I have no idea why he made it through to the rookie draft. Something amiss there.

On another note, apparently Langdon said "there will be a couple of retirements". Nothing but speculation, but I have had a feeling all morning that Kennedy will announce he is retiring.

He gave an interview on Perth radio saying that he was sombre when he did his ankle in round 18 as he wasn't sure if he had played his last match (paraphrasing), and he went on to talk about decision making and talking to the family and all that.

Means Brander should play up forward and Oscar to continue ruck/forward.

 

[FreeTK]

Here's the thing:

The drive of this group has been under par since the 2018 flag.

The major problem with this team has always been between the ears. And until that gets sorted this group won't go all the way again.

As to how to sort out that issue, I have no idea. I'm not a sports/performance psychologist. But perhaps they should invest in a better one(s). Mindset is key.


Another major problem is our last 4 players picked are bad. Compare our last few players picked compared to Brisbane/Port/Richmond and you'll see a massive gulf.
Ainsworth/Petrucelle/Ah Chee/Reid/Brayshaw/Cole (last night at least, he's normally ok), doesn't leave much to be desired.

The midfield tactics need a massive overhaul. Our centre clearance work is brilliant (mostly due to Nic) but our around the ground stoppage work is awful. Dead last in the competition for ground ball gets, below average contested possessions, unbelievably poor tackling. All of these issues need to be the primary focus in the off season. From a layman's perspective it looks like a lack of desire/endeavour. How the fu** does Levi Greenwood side step amd waltz around 3 players twice in 2 minutes?! Unbelievable, get Sheed, Gaff, Ainsworth in the god damn gym so they can actually take a player down. They certainly aren't alone there, the whole team needs to be so much harder and more focussed.

The ball comes out of our forward 50 far too easily. Obviously we've had our small forward stocks decimated this year, but still, it's far too easy for opposition defence's to bring the ball to ground and then just waltz it out. No where near good enough for a flag team.

Our defensive strategy has been worked out and needs addressing also. It's intrinsically linked to our lack of defensive pressure in the midfield but if you move the ball quickly into our defensive 50, Barrass and Gov aren't strong 1v1 defenders and you can exploit that easily. ******* Mason Cox kicked 3 goals in 3 minutes due to this. He's probably the worst player on an AFL list.
Dixon destroyed us earlier in the year too.
Why Schofield was dropped for this game i'll never understand (though I believe he and Simpson had a pretty big rift this year, damn shame).

We are too predictable amd slow transitioning from defence. Losing Jetta this year really hurt us in that department (if the rumours are true about the first hub, I don't think he'll be with us next year). The Cole/Nelson/Duggan trio was a revelation towards the end of the first hub and during our golden run at Optus, but Nelson and Cole really fell off the cliff towards the back end of the season. Duggan, however was exceptional all year, great to see. What they aren't though, is particularly fast or creative in their disposal in transition from defence into attack in the way Jetta and Hurn were a couple of years ago. Hopefully this comes with more experience, but we need to find cleaner/more creative avenues to transion from our defensive 50 effectively.

So basically a lot to work on. Very much feels like 2016/17, where Simpson had found a revolutionary game plan a couple of years earlier (The Web of 2015) but it was worked out by the opposition faster than he could adjust, leaving us good but not great. Thankfully his revolutionary game plan of 2018 (kick/mark/switch) took us all the way, but he needs to adjust faster and better if we're to extract the maximum potential out of this list, which is ageing.

I believe we have what it takes to compete for another few years, but presently, we're an upper mid team relying on too few to carry us over the line, with an exploitable game plan that needs an overhaul and no first round draft picks to freshen us up. Will be an interesting off season.

You said it was all between the ears, and then went on to list 3-4 (very valid) reasons why we lost and what our problems are.

Since round 4 we have lost 3 games, and the way we lost was basically the same each time. Second to the ball, got burnt for pace on the spread, and teams were able to transition from coast to coast too easily.

All the points you raised are great points and very true, but it also points to more than just above the shoulders.

Our strengths are obvious, and when we have the game on our terms, it looks quite ominous, but there is also not just chinks, but significant holes in the armour.

Simpson is well aware of this. He conceded everything mentioned last night "too reliant on centre clearance" is code for not doing enough around in the midfield in general play. "Not locking it in forward" is code for small forwards aren't applying pressure and the ball walks out of our F50.

Simmo now has a few months to figure out how to resolve these issues. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.