Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs Port Adelaide

[Flarn Rarn]

Kane does love a hot take but as others have said, don't think he's wrong here.

 

[Free Agent]

Having a bad S&C (and related) team isnt circumstances - it is self inflicted by mad management and leadership. What other citcumstances can you put forward as an excuse to cover poor management and leadership?

I think one of things that's dissapointed me through this panadamic is how we as a club have handled it. I would say we have handled it in the worse way.

In 2021 when the AFL decided to put caps on football department spendings. The first coach to speak out was Simmo. Which I don't mind but I feel our issues go all the way back to then. Its like we cut a lot of our football department since that and the staff that were kept had a sook as they had to do more work and basically have up and did absolutely nothing.

We now need a complete turn around in our football department as now we are left with sour grapes with a lot of staff. It's an attitude issue and it begins with our football department all the way to the coaches.

No other club has carried on as much as us when it came to the cap on football department spendings.

Now the caps have decreases and things are going back to normal but we still haven't.

They have a job to do and if some of our medical and S&C staff are having sooks because there mates got the chop a year back and then decided to do nothing in the offseason through the panadamic. They can just piss off aswell. We need a overhaul and new fresh staff that understands how the industry works. Not stale complacent old timers that do nothing and think they everything.

 

[ziad]

I think one of things that's dissapointed me through this panadamic is how we as a club have handled it. I would say we have handled it in the worse way.

In 2021 when the AFL decided to put caps on football department spendings. The first coach to speak out was Simmo. Which I don't mind but I feel our issues go all the way back to then. Its like we cut a lot of our football department since that and the staff that were kept had a sook as they had to do more work and basically have up and did absolutely nothing.

We now need a complete turn around in our football department as now we are left with sour grapes with a lot of staff. It's an attitude issue and it begins with our football department all the way to the coaches.

No other club has carried on as much as us when it came to the cap on football department spendings.

Now the caps have decreases and things are going back to normal but we still haven't.

They have a job to do and if some of our medical and S&C staff are having sooks because there mates got the chop a year back and then decided to do nothing in the offseason through the panadamic. They can just piss off aswell. We need a overhaul and new fresh staff that understands how the industry works. Not stale complacent old timers that do nothing and think they everything.

The rot starts from the top, always. The club leadership has been very poor, and leadership is an element of management. The messaging as you described it has been sooking.

 

[Goroyals22]

F by circumstance?

Not a chance in hell.

The same team in 2019 that rocked up to Brisbane round 1 and got spanked?

The same team that chose when to go for the vast majority of games. Pulled a quarter out of their ass and jagged a win.

Slaughtered at home by Port.

The Harry Hi Pants photo.

I could keep going on and on about 2019.

Circumstance my ass. No offence.

Agree with most of this but the RD1 Brissy game there is no side that would have won that game in those conditions… it was the most extreme that they will ever play in.. humidity through the roof, the temp was still in the low 30s when the game finished and having won the flag then having a shorter pre season produced the perfect storm.

 

[The wily weagle]

What i wouldn't give to have Darren Burgess at our club

I have really, really rated him for a very long time

 

[Chump Change]

He's not wrong.

The question is, as many have pointed out, how did this happen? There's a number of players who are fat and unfit.

How does this happen in an elite sporting competition? How does this happen at a big club like West Coast?

I suspect Simmo has put too much trust in the players. Surely S&C would want to do their job to the best level possible - it's what they do.

 

[ziad]

The question is, as many have pointed out, how did this happen? There's a number of players who are fat and unfit.

How does this happen in an elite sporting competition? How does this happen at a big club like West Coast?

I suspect Simmo has put too much trust in the players. Surely S&C would want to do their job to the best level possible - it's what they do.

The AFL is minor on the world stage, and the word elite is used far too loosely. WC have easy income but that doesnt equate to strong leadership and smart decision making - or being elite. One weakness is an insular mind set.

 

[Cuzz09]

What i wouldn't give to have Darren Burgess at our club

I have really, really rated him for a very long time

While it would be great Im sure there are other high performance people we can target.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

I wish Kane highlighted NN, Gov, Ryan, Willie and Yeo.

Who's Sydney's fitness coach?

Because I reckon Naitanui has a similar physique to Lance Franklin... and they are both prime candidates for carrying too much weight. And Franklin definitely has been too heavy, at various stages of his career. But he's looking pretty trim these days.

You look at Coll v Ess during the national anthem as they panned along EVERY single players guernsey looked painted on they are all super fit.

I agree with Kane our standards have dropped. But its not just this year. Its gradual since the flag

IMHO, it's a tough one... because some players are able to perform even if they are carrying a bit of extra weight -- like McGovern. Do you drop a player that is performing, even though they are carrying extra weight? You do wonder how much better he might be if he was fitter.

More importantly, though, teams can really only carry one "Stuart Dew" at most... not 4-5 of them.

Maybe it's the impact of COVID, interrupted pre-season, injuries, or whatever. But it definitely can't help.

 

[Cuzz09]

Syd prob have specialist people that arent included in the soft cap thing

 

[The wily weagle]

While it would be great Im sure there are other high performance people we can target.

You know, that's not a bad thought now that you mention this. Maybe our scope of vision is too small. Perhaps we should be considering recruiting leading finesses bosses from other sports.

Prior to coming to Port Adelaide, Darren Burgess came to the AFL from a premier league soccer background. I actually had the pleasure of talking to him when he first came to Port and he told me point blank that firstly, AFL onballers shouldn't need to be coming to the bench so often. In soccer, they are running harder, for longer, with no rest so it seemed silly an elite player was coming off every 10 minutes.
Secondly, that recovery was overdone. You play one game of football and need 6 days to recover? In the premier league, if you qualify for assorted silverware, you might be playing 3 games a week. He then spoke to me on active recovery and then need to be fit enough to do that
And finally, he told me that high altitude training was over rated and that training in the heat was just as effective. Hence why he took Port to Dubai rather then Colorado

And just like magic, Port was easily the fittest team in the AFL under his tutelage for the first 2 years until the rest of the competition caught up

Maybe we should widen our gaze and see if we can poach an elite fitness boss from overseas. Surely it couldn't hurt to enquire

 

[Cuzz09]

Surely these clubs know this stuff. Seems straight forward.

Over Summer just play match sims the whole summer.

Tackling, running, pressure etc

sure u might get injuries but give kids and ring ins rotating plus you'll be fit AF

Get the footies out straight away. Miss a target leave the Sim and do 5 laps idiot

Lift standards

 

[Chump Change]

The AFL is minor on the world stage, and the word elite is used far too loosely. WC have easy income but that doesnt equate to strong leadership and smart decision making - or being elite. One weakness is an insular mind set.

Not really....

EPL, NBA, MBL, Cricket, Tennis

We maybe small but comparing professionally, because we are Australian, we are near the top of the tree.

No other AFL team have fat ****s on their playing list.

 

[Chump Change]

But he's looking pretty trim these days.

I noticed that too. He has slimmed down.

 

[ziad]

Not really....

EPL, NBA, MBL, Cricket, Tennis

We maybe small but comparing professionally, because we are Australian, we are near the top of the tree.

No other AFL team have fat ****s on their playing list.

Not credible. Professional cycling teams have backing from major university research groups and staff cooks etc for and example of an endurance based sport. Tennis players have their own personal team of support staff. MBL isnt enfurance based like footy so not relevant.

 

[Truckosaurus]

No other AFL team have fat ****s on their playing list.

I'm pretty sure they do. First thought I had watching the Sydney game was 'Paddy McCartin looks overweight'. Did you see Luke Ryan last year? You might have and not recognised him because of how fat he'd gotten.

 

[Chump Change]

I'm pretty sure they do. First thought I had watching the Sydney game was 'Paddy McCartin looks overweight'. Did you see Luke Ryan last year? You might have and not recognised him because of how fat he'd gotten.

Yep, he's a fat ****. But we have about 5 of them.

 

[shooshka]

You know, that's not a bad thought now that you mention this. Maybe our scope of vision is too small. Perhaps we should be considering recruiting leading finesses bosses from other sports.

Prior to coming to Port Adelaide, Darren Burgess came to the AFL from a premier league soccer background. I actually had the pleasure of talking to him when he first came to Port and he told me point blank that firstly, AFL onballers shouldn't need to be coming to the bench so often. In soccer, they are running harder, for longer, with no rest so it seemed silly an elite player was coming off every 10 minutes.
Secondly, that recovery was overdone. You play one game of football and need 6 days to recover? In the premier league, if you qualify for assorted silverware, you might be playing 3 games a week. He then spoke to me on active recovery and then need to be fit enough to do that
And finally, he told me that high altitude training was over rated and that training in the heat was just as effective. Hence why he took Port to Dubai rather then Colorado

And just like magic, Port was easily the fittest team in the AFL under his tutelage for the first 2 years until the rest of the competition caught up

Maybe we should widen our gaze and see if we can poach an elite fitness boss from overseas. Surely it couldn't hurt to enquire

Soccer running is different, but running harder for longer is a bit of a stretch. They certainly have more repeat sprint efforts, and would change direction much, much more than the average AFL player (maybe Hurn stopping and propping each time he takes a mark, or fakes to go to the left on a kickout, might compete).

Overall km's though, AFL players would be well ahead. Soccer players cover 10-14km per game (as a range). AFL players have an average of just under 13km (they max out at around 17km). So across the league, the average is only slightly short of the maximum for a soccer player.

Contact also impacts recovery. Whilst soccer isn't no-contact, it is definitely different and as such players can get up for a game within 3 days (where it is difficult in AFL).


Heat vs Altitude training is well known now and I think Burgess was one of the pioneers of that, and he's right around the active recovery.


Either way we do need to get fitter though. Skills and gameplan improve significantly as squad fitness increases. We're miles off the pace at present.

 

[Goosecat]

Soccer running is different, but running harder for longer is a bit of a stretch. They certainly have more repeat sprint efforts, and would change direction much, much more than the average AFL player (maybe Hurn stopping and propping each time he takes a mark, or fakes to go to the left on a kickout, might compete).

Overall km's though, AFL players would be well ahead. Soccer players cover 10-14km per game (as a range). AFL players have an average of just under 13km (they max out at around 17km). So across the league, the average is only slightly short of the maximum for a soccer player.

Contact also impacts recovery. Whilst soccer isn't no-contact, it is definitely different and as such players can get up for a game within 3 days (where it is difficult in AFL).


Heat vs Altitude training is well known now and I think Burgess was one of the pioneers of that, and he's right around the active recovery.


Either way we do need to get fitter though. Skills and gameplan improve significantly as squad fitness increases. We're miles off the pace at present.

I think a couple of the unique characteristics regarding AFL and fitness is both the level of mental strain and drain on aerobic ability and the actual continual
physical impacts/hits combined with that aerobic running. The combination of 360 degree attacks, multitude of rules, structures, roles requiring constant evaluation and adjustment combined with 360 degree physical impact harm have a deleterious affect on aerobic performance and recovery.
We know mental strain effects performance generally and the amount of mental processing happening at AFL level whilst under extreme level fitness and physical demand is hard to quantify/particularly for multi role mids.
It is now a very complex mental challenge combined with all the physical demands that are already unique. Just comparing aerobic ability between AFL and simpler structured games, rules and physical threats is tough in reality.

 

[WCErevival]

Back in the day we used to be regarded as one of the fittest teams in the comp. I'm not sure if that was due to individuals being good runners, the coaching, being on the gear or what but now we are seen as at the low end. Considering all our staff has been there for 30 years, what happened?

 

[RookiePick]

I think a couple of the unique characteristics regarding AFL and fitness is both the level of mental strain and drain on aerobic ability and the actual continual
physical impacts/hits combined with that aerobic running. The combination of 360 degree attacks, multitude of rules, structures, roles requiring constant evaluation and adjustment combined with 360 degree physical impact harm have a deleterious affect on aerobic performance and recovery.
We know mental strain effects performance generally and the amount of mental processing happening at AFL level whilst under extreme level fitness and physical demand is hard to quantify/particularly for multi role mids.
It is now a very complex mental challenge combined with all the physical demands that are already unique. Just comparing aerobic ability between AFL and simpler structured games, rules and physical threats is tough in reality.

I think it would be wrong to think there is less mental challenge in elite soccer. It's like F1, the winner is so often determined by who doesn't make a mistake. Over 90 minutes of soccer that requires a huge amount of focus I would think.

I agree that the physical contact in footy completely changes the aerobic fitness paradigm. I have been saying for a while that we have focussed too much on running endurance and not enough on the strength and explosive athletic components of the sport. You just don't run that great when you have been battered for an hour plus. Any benefit you may have had, in a pure aerobic sense, is completely eroded late in quarters and and in the second half of games.

 

[Goosecat]

Sean Darcy [/thread]


I think it would be wrong to think there is less mental challenge in elite soccer. It's like F1, the winner is so often determined by who doesn't make a mistake. Over 90 minutes of soccer that requires a huge amount of focus I would think.

I agree that the physical contact in footy completely changes the aerobic fitness paradigm. I have been saying for a while that we have focussed too much on running endurance and not enough on the strength and explosive athletic components of the sport. You just don't run that great when you have been battered for an hour plus. Any benefit you may have had, in a pure aerobic sense, is completely eroded late in quarters and and in the second half of games.

Oh I don't dismiss the mental challenge of any elite sport and also should add I believe the AFL in general often thinks it's fitness levels are beyond other sports, which is not born out by data at all.
I remember laughing at the comments from experts regarding AFL players professionalism and fitness and the international rules games and how that would see them outrun and outlast the part time Irish Gaelic players. LOL, never happened. It just confirmed their levels were about as high as the average committed part timer playing Gaelic (slight exaggeration I know but the point is valid).
I do however think the mental challenges around making mistakes and repercussions, whilst being different in each sport have similar resultant stress. There are just as many AFL players having losses attributed to their single mistake each and every week mentally. The structures, multidinous rules and 360 degree nature are another mental level altogether.

 

[ziad]

I think it would be wrong to think there is less mental challenge in elite soccer. It's like F1, the winner is so often determined by who doesn't make a mistake. Over 90 minutes of soccer that requires a huge amount of focus I would think.

I agree that the physical contact in footy completely changes the aerobic fitness paradigm. I have been saying for a while that we have focussed too much on running endurance and not enough on the strength and explosive athletic components of the sport. You just don't run that great when you have been battered for an hour plus. Any benefit you may have had, in a pure aerobic sense, is completely eroded late in quarters and and in the second half of games.

sort of but well over stated; aerobic capacity and explosive speed are like height - relative to other players in the same game the best stay the best. The fact is our players are not as fit as others, seem to be selected poorly for speed, several are well over weight and we handle injuries and COVID far worse that any other club.

Other endurance based sports are contested over far longer periods, dont have rotations or breaks and present huge mentel challenges. But our players dont compete against them - only other teams that are prepared far better.

 

[Monocle]

hutchy is a gaping arseh*le. football would be better off if he ceased to exist.

so would the perth wildcats

 

[kane249]

Back in the day we used to be regarded as one of the fittest teams in the comp. I'm not sure if that was due to individuals being good runners, the coaching, being on the gear or what but now we are seen as at the low end. Considering all our staff has been there for 30 years, what happened?

For all his off field faults, Ben Cousins was a great on field leader.

He set the benchmark in terms of running and fitness for the other mids to follow. Chris Judd has acknowledged it was Cousins training standards that helped propel him to be the player he was.