Autopsy R5 Freo def by Carlton

[Grape Bear]

So we can at least start the tank early and blood da youff

Oh... You mean we weren't tanking already?

 

[billybunter]

Perhaps we can send one to GWS.

Boys, you should've taken our 2016 first round pick for McCarthy.

Or maybe a thankyou to Port Adelaide for signing the Spud of the year Charlie Dixon and saving us plenty of $$$$$$$ and even more embarrassment.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

Hawthorn [win without 3 of best 4 centre bounce midfielders]

When? Cite for us. Hawthorn have never been without 3 of their best 4 centre bounce players in the same selection in years. Certainly doesn't stand out in their premiership years. Not 3 key outs... And if they didn't have Mitchell, Hodge and their #1 ruck in recent times, that's likely chalked up one of Clarko's 30% loss record.

I think what you are positing is instead "can hawthorn thrive without all those 4 best in a centre bounce, or multiple centre bounces of a game". And yes, they rotate fresh utlities (gunston, rioli, burgoyne, roughhead) that have more impact than about ALL other clubs in the league. So what? That is their stocks being better than most teams.

====

Anyway, there was no guarantee we'd be sitting 0-5 no matter what doomsday supporters try to say, so this season for me is now about my buddy, and pavlich 350! I was mostly happy with Croziers effort and output. I feel he had more overall impact than recent call ups to the 1st's! 2.2 with 11 possessions. Would have been nicer to see 15 or 20 possies and 4 qtr display but I feel he didn't just take up space like a lot of naysayers posit

Or as Ross would say; Look, its not ideal, but we're pleased with the intent. Don't get me wrong, we aim for more than that as a club, first goal thought we got a spark, what did we end (looks at sheet).. 2.2, so, we gave ourselves plenty of opportunity, but ultimately we sit here licking our wounds...

 

[darkshines]

Not sure how it looks on the tele, but at the game it was almost impossible to fathom the lack of movement from our players across the ground when we had the ball. It was almost like a defensive zone ... on offence !?!

It just ups the degree of difficulty on kicks, which we already struggle with anyway. The blokes doing the rebounding out of D50 genuinely have nothing to kick to.

Our uncontested mark count would nearly be world record low? Whatever we are playing, it aint 2016 football.

 

[JordyLuke]

I didn't see Guerra in the coaches box. Has he and Hale been express posted back to Victoria?

 

[Goldy McH]

When? Cite for us. Hawthorn have never been without 3 of their best 4 centre bounce players in the same selection in years. Certainly doesn't stand out in their premiership years. Not 3 key outs... And if they didn't have Mitchell, Hodge and their #1 ruck in recent times, that's likely chalked up one of Clarko's 30% loss record.

I think what you are positing is instead "can hawthorn thrive without all those 4 best in a centre bounce, or multiple centre bounces of a game". And yes, they rotate fresh utlities (gunston, rioli, burgoyne, roughhead) that have more impact than about ALL other clubs in the league. So what? That is their stocks being better than most teams.

====

Anyway, there was no guarantee we'd be sitting 0-5 no matter what doomsday supporters try to say, so this season for me is now about my buddy, and pavlich 350! I was mostly happy with Croziers effort and output. I feel he had more overall impact than recent call ups to the 1st's! 2.2 with 11 possessions. Would have been nicer to see 15 or 20 possies and 4 qtr display but I feel he didn't just take up space like a lot of naysayers posit

Or as Ross would say; Look, its not ideal, but we're pleased with the intent. Don't get me wrong, we aim for more than that as a club, first goal thought we got a spark, what did we end (looks at sheet).. 2.2, so, we gave ourselves plenty of opportunity, but ultimately we sit here licking our wounds...

If Hawthorn were missing roughie, Mitchell, Burgoyne and hodge, (or whatever 4 you choose) I believe they would have easily accounted for Carlton today. Easily.

It's not the personnel that are out, or at least not just that.. The lack of confidence in the game plan and resulting dearth of skills mean even our best players look like complete chumps out there. It's baffling and looks like it will be a long and painful total reconstruction from the ground up.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

I didn't see Guerra in the coaches box. Has he and Hale been express posted back to Victoria?

The coaches aren't missing targets and stuffing 4/5 shots on goal a game.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

If Hawthorn were missing roughie, Mitchell, Burgoyne and hodge, (or whatever 4 you choose) I believe they would have easily accounted for Carlton today. Easily.

It's not the personnel that are out, or at least not just that.. The lack of confidence in the game plan and resulting dearth of skills mean even our best players look like complete chumps out there. It's baffling and looks like it will be a long and painful total reconstruction from the ground up.

Exactly, ball movement is our issue, whether that be players not leading hard enough or us missing easy targets its the main issue. It is a personell issue, but you can also see the players aren't moving the ball quick enough which allows opposition to flood back numbers and stop any momentum we have.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

If Hawthorn were missing roughie, Mitchell, Burgoyne and hodge, (or whatever 4 you choose) I believe they would have easily accounted for Carlton today. Easily.

It's not the personnel that are out, or at least not just that.. The lack of confidence in the game plan and resulting dearth of skills mean even our best players look like complete chumps out there. It's baffling and looks like it will be a long and painful total reconstruction from the ground up.

If?.. The credibility of your argument would be greatly bolstered if Hawthorn did have that hypothetical happen to them and win. As it is, useless deflection from the counter point I raised.

 

[gaskin]

There was f*** all wind tonight so there is no excuse for such poor goal kicking.

I don't know how half these players got to AFL level considering they don't seem to have a brain. I mean, nobody on the f****** line and just letting the ball bounce through on the line? Please. School boy error.

Took one step backwards with the skills and decision making again.

Dunno what it was like on TV but that last quarter we were royally f****** by the umps. Some of the stuff they weren't paying was mind boggling.

At least Brady and Tucker showed something and Weller continues to improve.

This is like Drumm era Dockers and it's so bad I can't help but laugh.

 

[schnoods]

Went fishing instead of watching the game, good decision.

But watching 2 highlights that killed me was Daisy kicking a goal on a unmanned goal line from a set shot and Tabs brain fade.

The most disappointing part was Ross's presser. It just screams of a retreat game plan.

 

[Banker]

Went fishing instead of watching the game, good decision.

But watching 2 highlights that killed me was Daisy kicking a goal on a unmanned goal line from a set shot and Tabs brain fade.

The most disappointing part was Ross's presser. It just screams of a retreat game plan.

The problem with Ross is that he only knows defense. To attack goes against his very own instincts, so we're pretty much gambling on a coach with no experience with attacking plans. At the end of the 5 years we're going to either have a premiership or have one hell of mess that needs to be mopped up.

I give him till end 2017 and if there is no improvement we need to look for other coaches.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Went fishing instead of watching the game, good decision.

catch any?

 

[rodney hoo]

When? Cite for us. Hawthorn have never been without 3 of their best 4 centre bounce players in the same selection in years. Certainly doesn't stand out in their premiership years. Not 3 key outs... And if they didn't have Mitchell, Hodge and their #1 ruck in recent times, that's likely chalked up one of Clarko's 30% loss record.

I think what you are positing is instead "can hawthorn thrive without all those 4 best in a centre bounce, or multiple centre bounces of a game". And yes, they rotate fresh utlities (gunston, rioli, burgoyne, roughhead) that have more impact than about ALL other clubs in the league. So what? That is their stocks being better than most teams.

====

Anyway, there was no guarantee we'd be sitting 0-5 no matter what doomsday supporters try to say, so this season for me is now about my buddy, and pavlich 350! I was mostly happy with Croziers effort and output. I feel he had more overall impact than recent call ups to the 1st's! 2.2 with 11 possessions. Would have been nicer to see 15 or 20 possies and 4 qtr display but I feel he didn't just take up space like a lot of naysayers posit

Or as Ross would say; Look, its not ideal, but we're pleased with the intent. Don't get me wrong, we aim for more than that as a club, first goal thought we got a spark, what did we end (looks at sheet).. 2.2, so, we gave ourselves plenty of opportunity, but ultimately we sit here licking our wounds...

Crozier is still only 22, IMO he has to get possessions but 11 quality for a young player is better than 30 crap ones, they need time to establish themselves, he should been backed in earlier.

 

[free at last]

The problem with Ross is that he only knows defense. To attack goes against his very own instincts, so we're pretty much gambling on a coach with no experience with attacking plans. At the end of the 5 years we're going to either have a premiership or have one hell of mess that needs to be mopped up.

I give him till end 2017 and if there is no improvement we need to look for other coaches.

Massive 2016 offseason,trading,drafting,delisting etc etc

 

[meima]

Crozier is still only 22, IMO he has to get possessions but 11 quality for a young player is better than 30 crap ones, they need time to establish themselves, he should been backed in earlier.

Honestly against Adelaide , I prefer all the footsoldier play plus hannath , let blakely and Weller had a winning spell in wafl against Perth.

 

[Unique Name]

We gave up our defensive ability to try and be more attacking.

Now we can niether attack or defend

 

[FUS_RO_DAH]

Everytime a player had the ball they just looked absolutely shit scared and wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible.
Our skills are woeful because we have been honing our defensive instincts so tightly the last few years that any time we try to be attacking, we're just having that nanosecond of hesitation and panicking.
No coincidence that the younger blokes look the most comfortable with moving the ball quickly (and even then that wasn't overall spectacular)

 

[Freoforever86]

So here's my 5c. Take it or leave it.
D Pearce, Dawson & Mayne were 3 of our best today. If you dont realise that you weren't watching properly.

Clarke, ballantyne were obviously playing injured from close to the start. I doubt Clarke way playing even 80%

Pav had a stinker, but easily forgiven.

Weller is a gun, sign him long term.

Hill, lost all his confidence. Missed 2 on the run from 50 today. Never does that.

As many mistakes Taberner made today, he also did as many good things. Yes he missed that mark rather than sheparding, but some talk from Pav & he may have left it. Or marked it without panic.

Barlow & Neale must be 2 of the worst disposal mids in the League, always missing easy targets.

Crozier was much better. Missed some easier shots, but pressure & presence was good.

Walters was good - but stop ducking.

Grey looked very solid. Tucker looked ok, nothing special, but did enough.

Griffin is a very average player. Hardly any contested marks. Sutty & Spurr were solid. APearce did both good and bad things.

Fyfe & Johnson both carried injuries but fought manfully.

Our ball use is COMPLETELY shot. Terribly movement. I'm completely embarrassed from losing to that mob. We are much better than that. It's going be a long season.

 

[meima]

So here's my 5c. Take it or leave it.
D Pearce, Dawson & Mayne were 3 of our best today. If you dont realise that you weren't watching properly.

Clarke, ballantyne were obviously playing injured from close to the start. I doubt Clarke way playing even 80%

Pav had a stinker, but easily forgiven.

Weller is a gun, sign him long term.

Hill, lost all his confidence. Missed 2 on the run from 50 today. Never does that.

As many mistakes Taberner made today, he also did as many good things. Yes he missed that mark rather than sheparding, but some talk from Pav & he may have left it. Or marked it without panic.

Barlow & Neale must be 2 of the worst disposal mids in the League, always missing easy targets.

Crozier was much better. Missed some easier shots, but pressure & presence was good.

Walters was good - but stop ducking.

Grey looked very solid. Tucker looked ok, nothing special, but did enough.

Griffin is a very average player. Hardly any contested marks. Sutty & Spurr were solid. APearce did both good and bad things.

Fyfe & Johnson both carried injuries but fought manfully.

Our ball use is COMPLETELY shot. Terribly movement. I'm completely embarrassed from losing to that mob. We are much better than that. It's going be a long season.

Sheriden- vanilla, caramel or chocolate?

 

[Freoforever86]

Sheriden- vanilla, caramel or chocolate?

Sheridan was ok. I still think he's a winger, not a HBF.

 

[Ktrain]

The coaches aren't missing targets and stuffing 4/5 shots on goal a game.

The coaches are though expecting a different result from a group that has never been skilled by foot (efficient yes, but never classy). We've always had the clangers to be fair. So the coaches take responsibility for some misjudgment.

 

[E Shed]

I'm in the eerie calm brigade. I accepted this was to going to be a transition year pretty early in the piece so I'm actually that concerned with results I'm just looking to see what the kids have got in the big time and if Lyon can adapt. I liked what he said in his presser, that he's energised by the depth of our hopelessness and wants to dig in and get us playing well again. Its the kind of intelligence I was hoping to see from him. In disaster there is opportunity.

As for the kids; I liked what I saw from Tucker. Did his bit and looked cool, calm collected and made good decisions. He's a keeper and exactly what we need.
I loved Brady's appetite for the contest, those marks he took were great. Let himself down with some kicking but one of his kicks into forward 50 was excellent. He certainly at least offers some much needed desire at the contest.
Alex Pearce will take a few years to reach his peak but gee its going to be a high peak. He's so smart, the decisions he makes are just excellent and his ball handling is superb for a gangly young man still growing into his body. Very exciting.
Weller continues to show good aggression with his tackling and he's a classy player. Again has some growing to do but he's going to be a ripper.

Other than that I was super impressed with Walters, the way he willed himself on the contest and never gave up. Super little player.

I'm in the camp that thinks Taberner will never make it. We are only playing him because we have nothing else. He's worked on his kicking but he just has no feel for it. He's mechanical and the times he takes to decide and get it on the boot means he ends up kicking it over the leading targets head. I could go on but what's the point. I like his effort and he's come along way but he just doesn't have what it takes.

I would really like to see Hilly take a hit just once getting a handball away under pressure. His first thought is to avoid contact and he compromises his disposal because he's not will to take a hit. I love the guy and I've defended him on here for years but he's not digging in the way he should be as a senior player right now. His confidence is down and his kicking is suffering. He should have jailed both those goals, easy.

The rest I can't be bothered with right now. We are plumbing new depths (under Lyon) and its going to be interesting to see the response.

Edit. Forgot to mention how stoked I was to see Croz nearly take mark of the year. Been waiting a long time to see that. Thought he had a much better game. If he'd taken his chances he could have had 4 which would be an excellent return. Knows his way around the forward line.

 

[wayToGo_]

D Pearce, Dawson & Mayne were 3 of our best today. If you dont realise that you weren't watching properly.

Agree with almost everything else in your post except this. I thought it was one of Danyle's worst games I can remember - he seemed to drop it on the boot and hope for the best most of the game. Did a couple of ok things but I can't fathom him being listed in our best players today. I also thought it was possibly Dawson's worst game this year, just far more mistakes than he has made in other rounds. Not that he was the worst but I'd struggle to list him in our best. If these guys can make 5 clangers and still be in our best then there is something terribly wrong. Mayne I do agree with you. Worked hard the whole game all around the field, and did a lot of off the ball work that led to us getting the ball and scoring from it. Made very few mistakes unlike our entire team, just like last week (thought he was better last week though).

 

[Admiral Byng]

We gave up our defensive ability to try and be more attacking.

Now we can niether attack or defend

Pretty much.

And we seemed to have devoted the off-season to training anything but skills.