Toast Round 10 = Carlton 57-85 Collingwood

[Apex36]

Is Adams in our best 23 as a fwd? IMO, it’s a no he’s currently in there as an inside mid that’s being squeezed into a forward role. If it isn’t Adams for Carmichael because it’s not like for like and it isn’t Macrae because he may not have scope as a forward the guts of it is Adams is safe in your eyes. There’s no chance we’re flogging that horse until late season then pivoting.


You know what the one sure fire way to test out your theory because that’s what it is not the statement of fact from your earlier post, rotate the squad. If I had to guess Adams hurt factor would be lower at VFL level than Macrae’s because on exposed grounds without the likes of Steele, Pendles, Daicos x 2 and JDG around him and how much he’s forcing it at AFL level he would butcher it beyond measure. He would put up 20% better numbers.

Macraes rating as a first round prospect came off the back of his bottom year season where he largely played as a small forward who had scope for the midfield. I’m actually surprised that our coaches haven’t rotated him through the forward line more, but maybe they’re looking at him as the heir apparent to Adams/Mitchell and want to develop his inside game as much as possible.

 

[JB1975]

Love Tay Tay. Expect him to play play.

An arse as fine as his cannot be stopped.

 

[Visions]

Carlton should be a decent side.

They’ve got the reigning Brownlow medalist. They’ve got two Coleman medalists playing for them. Sam Walsh promised to be a generational player.

Yeah, we’ve got Darcy Moore, but let’s not forget Jacob Weitering had similar hype around him early career.

And say what you like about Adam Saad, but he was a far highly prized recruit than own equivalent position - Johnny f**king Noble who we picked up in the mid season draft for the price of one of Dave’s discarded twistees packets.

Adam Cerra was a highly fancied trade who they gave up a pick 6 for. Say what you like about Jack Silvagni, but he’s done a hell of a lot more than Will Kelly has.

Both us and them sacked our coach a couple years ago. We got first dibs and they got second on coaches of similar provenance - Brisbane’s triple Premiership team. They got the captain with previous senior coaching experience. We got the school teacher with development experience.

Both our clubs are at similar stages and on paper they should be better, a lot better.

End of last year we only beat them by a point. And yeah, we played finals and they didn’t, but eventhough they missed out playing finals by 0.6%, their percentage was still better than ours.

It was possible to imagine that with a different draw and different luck, Carlton could turn the tables and be a better team than us. The start of the season gave them hope, drawing a game with recent premiers, and going on a nice winning streak to start things off.

They then lost a bunch of tough games to drop out of the top 4. Sundays game was the nail in the coffin. Their superior list wasn’t playing anywhere near as well as us. They should be better but they’re not. They’re not terrible, as in North Melbourne terrible. They’re just … mediocre.

I watched the North game on the weekend and I reckon the Kangaroos have got an exciting future to look forward to. Pretty soon Carlton will be faced with comparing themselves to North and have them pass them by.

Oh the indignity? Nah, not really, it’s just business as usual for Carlton. The last two decades they’ve hovered between mediocre and shithouse.

Remember when they recruited Malthouse, our recently departed Premiership coach to great fanfare? They ended with a wooden spoon three years later

Remember when they recruited the up and coming coach in Bolton? Another Wooden Spoon.

And they’re heading in that direction again now …

Whats even better is that they have been trying to buy a premiership the last few years by prizing so called high talent from other clubs on big money like Zac Williams, Cerra, Acres while at the same time forking out the big bucks to keep their overpaid under achieving regulars.

In a few years when the rest of their existing rabble come with their hands out demanding higher salaries, the salary cap debacle they will encounter will make Ned Guy and the Collingwood saga look tame by comparison. Players will be leaving left right and centre either voluntarily or by force.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Is Adams in our best 23 as a fwd? IMO, it’s a no he’s in there as an inside mid that is being squeezed into a forward role. If it isn’t Adams for Carmichael because it’s not like for like and it isn’t Macrae because he may not have scope as a forward the guts of it isn’t Adams is safe in your eyes.

Agree. Adams isn't in best 23 as a fwd.
Neither is Mitchell.
But the club has found a way to rotate them across half fwd / mid so that they play more minutes (with less stress on them for the minutes they play).
I don't see Macrae fitting in with that rotation. We don't really have any midfielder that just plays mid.
They all play in different spots to ease the burden of rotations whilst lowering their GPS and 'stress' for the minutes they do play.
That is a bigger win for us than a lot of people pay attention to IMO.

Is Adams safe?
Nope. Can see him going the same way as the 2010 cohort.....but still a ways to go before that happens.
I think Lipinski is a huge option to take that role of inside mid / fwd.
its the role he played last year.
So with Mitchell performing better than Adams, IMO its lipinski vs adams in the back half of the year (assuming no injuries).

 

[magpienato]

One change I'd make for next week is Macrae for Adams.
Tay had a poor game yesterday - he seemed to be second guessing at times instead of going with the first option, which meant his subsequent disposal put a teammate under pressure.
We don't want to take North lightly, but with Davies-Uniacke out, it would be a good chance for Fin to get some senior game time.

Completely agree. All due respect for Adams as he's an absolute servant of this club, but he was real poor yesterday. The worst decision is indecision and when he did make a decisive disposal is was usually a complete hospital handpass.

I think that's a symptom of a wider problem with this team, making 3 handballs for what should have/could have been a good long kick. There was a passage in that 2nd quarter that perfectly exemplified this issue (pictured below). Still resulted in a goal in the end but if we can clean up this sort of thing we'll be next to unstoppable on the transition

 

[Mark W]

Carmy isn't like for like with Adams and won't play the inside role.

He's been playing the JDG role in the twos. So i'd expect him to be the guy on the move and allow us to weaponize his footskills ( as opposed to his abhorrent handballs).

Nailed it!

Im bemused by the punters who think Carmichael is some inside bull. You cant be a decent inside player if you cant handball! Yes Carmichael cracks in hard, but thats of limited use when what follows is a blind hack kick out of the pack. Even Tay, for all his disposal woes is pretty good at his handball feeds when he cracks in.

OTOH Carmichael is a very nice kick, when he has a bit of time and space. We want him running past the pack, not in the middlle of it

 

[Scodog10]

Macrae would be depth for Mitchell's role - no other roles really. Would you play Macrae as an inside mid instead of Mitchell against Melbourne? Because the next two weeks he wouldn't be up against finals quality AFL midfielders - so it wouldn't say much.

Personally, I think Adams is going fine. This board just hasn't yet bought into McRae's philosophy of not focussing on errors. He makes a lot of them, but he's a big factor in the whole ground intense buy in that is making us go so well.

Considering there’s no Oliver so he’ll be v Viney/ Brayshaw/ Harmes/ Sparrow yes I would that’s why I’m all for rotation. If Macrae comes in this week it’s a nice little block of games to say yes there’s something there or no not yet.

No I get the philosophy of McRae around errors the problem is Adams’ errors yesterday were the result of him going outside team rules and a me me me attitude rather than his usual errant kicking. There’s a big difference trying to bust through three tackles then turning it over when he should have given the first option each time and say Mihocek centring the ball and over kicking it. There’s no two ways about it that his errors weren’t Collingwood errors yesterday.

 

[hellfire]

Completely agree. All due respect for Adams as he's an absolute servant of this club, but he was real poor yesterday. The worst decision is indecision and when he did make a decisive disposal is was usually a complete hospital handpass.

I think that's a symptom of a wider problem with this team, making 3 handballs for what should have/could have been a good long kick. There was a passage in that 2nd quarter that perfectly exemplified this issue (pictured below). Still resulted in a goal in the end but if we can clean up this sort of thing we'll be next to unstoppable on the transition
View attachment 1693799

Agree with this. We are deadly during fast transitions, but we could be better and have overused the handball lately. That's a great example you've shared, and there would be several more that are quite similar from yesterday.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Completely agree. All due respect for Adams as he's an absolute servant of this club, but he was real poor yesterday. The worst decision is indecision and when he did make a decisive disposal is was usually a complete hospital handpass.

I think that's a symptom of a wider problem with this team, making 3 handballs for what should have/could have been a good long kick. There was a passage in that 2nd quarter that perfectly exemplified this issue (pictured below). Still resulted in a goal in the end but if we can clean up this sort of thing we'll be next to unstoppable on the transition
View attachment 1693799

I love this breakdown and will offer my layman counter point as a possibility as to why something like this could be intentional?

Working our through this set up via handball forces Carlton to abandon some of their structure which may help us better protect a potential turnover?

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Nah, not really, it’s just business as usual for Carlton. The last two decades they’ve hovered between mediocre and shithouse.

 

[JuniorB]

Completely agree. All due respect for Adams as he's an absolute servant of this club, but he was real poor yesterday. The worst decision is indecision and when he did make a decisive disposal is was usually a complete hospital handpass.

I think that's a symptom of a wider problem with this team, making 3 handballs for what should have/could have been a good long kick. There was a passage in that 2nd quarter that perfectly exemplified this issue (pictured below). Still resulted in a goal in the end but if we can clean up this sort of thing we'll be next to unstoppable on the transition
View attachment 1693799

One possible counter to that is that the handball approach makes us less predictable, meaning the opposition is unsure how to set up.
In this example, a kick would certainly have been a better option, though.
Still, there's plenty of time to fine tune.

 

[Scodog10]

I love this breakdown and will offer my layman counter point as a possibility as to why something like this could be intentional?

Working our through this set up via handball forces Carlton to abandon some of their structure which may help us better protect a potential turnover?

Or, and go with me on this, Daicos gave to the voice and didn’t catch sight of WHE? In a coaching space the intent would be for Daicos to hit that corridor target and it’s a great pick up from magpienato on an improvement as we progress.

FWIW Elliott cutting in behind to block for Daicos and directing him to the WHE option is the coachable moment there, IMO.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Completely agree. All due respect for Adams as he's an absolute servant of this club, but he was real poor yesterday. The worst decision is indecision and when he did make a decisive disposal is was usually a complete hospital handpass.

I think that's a symptom of a wider problem with this team, making 3 handballs for what should have/could have been a good long kick. There was a passage in that 2nd quarter that perfectly exemplified this issue (pictured below). Still resulted in a goal in the end but if we can clean up this sort of thing we'll be next to unstoppable on the transition
View attachment 1693799

The Irony of this is that it was Nick who made what was literally the worst of three options....something that he doesn't do very often.
So i think we can give this a pass

On a much more important note....how's the structural setup of that play!! That's just nigh on impossible to stop.
Say what you want about the execution of the play, but the game design and adherence from the team is just so consistent and disciplined.

We took the worst option and still couldn't help but score.
Even Mitchell, dead in front, decided to pass out to Josh.

Basically we did everything we could NOT to score and still couldn't help it.
That's what gives the team belief IMO.

...and us supporters the dreaded H word (Hope).

 

[neilk]

Arrived back home and able to watch the game a bit more closely. In the first quarter did I hear booing of both Cox and AJ by the Carlton crowd? Cox had marked and was taking his kick from half back and AJ while taking a shot after marking. Did we receive an apology from Carlton?

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Rude!

 

[sr36]

Considering there’s no Oliver so he’ll be v Viney/ Brayshaw/ Harmes/ Sparrow yes I would that’s why I’m all for rotation. If Macrae comes in this week it’s a nice little block of games to say yes there’s something there or no not yet.

No I get the philosophy of McRae around errors the problem is Adams’ errors yesterday were the result of him going outside team rules and a me me me attitude rather than his usual errant kicking. There’s a big difference trying to bust through three tackles then turning it over when he should have given the first option each time and say Mihocek centring the ball and over kicking it. There’s no two ways about it that his errors weren’t Collingwood errors yesterday.

Fair call on both fronts. I just don't see Finn as being a viable option for such a big role in finals. If he's in consideration for depth in finals, they should be putting more wing half back or half forward time into him in VFL. Because that's what we'll need to cover if Mitchell gets injured, as Crisp, Adams, Nick or Josh will step into more midfield minutes.

 

[ant22]

I love Mondays after we beat the Blues. The meltdown by Carlton supporters ringing SEN is as much fun as the game itself.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Arrived back home and able to watch the game a bit more closely. In the first quarter did I hear booing of both Cox and AJ by the Carlton crowd? Cox had marked and was taking his kick from half back and AJ while taking a shot after marking. Did we receive an apology from Carlton?

Yes they apologised by not trying to win for the rest of the game.

 

[Pistol Night]

I love Mondays after we beat the Blues. The meltdown by Carlton supporters ringing SEN is as much fun as the game itself.

And the despair that we’re just miles better than them has finally set it. Umps, injuries, etc hasn’t even been attempted as an excuse

 

[Big Bryza]

As i thought would happen, Carlton came to play with a plan of moving the ball quickly, until we smacked them in the mouth.

That's the 2nd time in a month the opposition have gone the biff with the hope of putting us off our game. It just galvanises the group and we go to another gear.

I was really hoping for a 10 goal win, but take the 5 goals, top spot and move on.

Moore was simply outstanding, what a disgrace those 3 free kicks which resulted in his 3 goals were to Curnow. Umpire's pet much?

Especially when you have Coxy getting impeded at every marking contest for no reward. It's biased BS and a blight on the game.

Really hoping we stay injury free as we have a lot of quality to return.

Taylor Adams

3

Taylor Adams

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.9

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.4

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.9

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

18.2

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

spot must be coming under question soon. He's not a half forward, poor decision making and his execution is ordinary most of the time. Carmichael is a better fit for that role and with the impending return of Lippa, there's going to be some tough calls to make.

Frampton can't be far away but Markov would be super unlucky to get dropped. Is improving week on week and guys with the speed he possesses are invaluable.

As for McStay, i simply don't know how we fit all 4 of Cox, Cameron, Johnson and McStay in the side. Cox and Cameron must share the ruck duties with AJ and Checkers patrolling the forward 50.

I'll never take any game lightly after the West Coast debacle of last year but here's hoping for 2 relatively stress free weeks with a nice % boost before a massive Kings Bday clash.

 

[Not Like This]

I can't believe I was nervous for this game lol at me haha

 

[Big Bryza]

Is that McClure sour as all hell in the second clip commenting on McCreery’s kick instead of Johnson’s mark

McClure absolutely loves us. I listened to the GWS game and he basically had our end his gob the entire time.

 

[Big Bryza]

Just on the Ginnivan high tackle.
The umpire did say that he didn't see the tackle go high. Thought it was the upper arm.
The non free kick wasn't because the umpire thought he ducked.

I feel so dirty now, defending an umpire.

How did he duck when he was tackled around the neck from behind?

It was 101% a free kick but not paid to him because his name is Ginnivan.

 

[Big Bryza]

Yeah, honestly Curnow is a bit of a superstar and most of the frees are there tbh - some of them a bit soft but he's pretty elite.

They were the 3 softest frees you are ever going to see.

If they paid those then Coxy should've received 10 down the other end yesterday.

 

[Big Bryza]

Silvani is worthless and weak.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

If he was Jack Smith he would've been delisted 3 years ago. What a poor footballer.